Both Stella McCartney and Alexander 'the great" McQueen showed confusion and undecisiveness in their new F/W collections and they are obviously affected by the shakeover and change at Gucci. Wow, Tom Ford indeed is iconic in this biz. Look at how many are his friends and loyal supporters. Proud of being an american!
The Gucci Repercussions
- Thread starter pennyfei
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ultramarine
chaos reigns
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Confusion and undecisiveness ?
I'm sorry, hun .. but here I draw a line.
I couldn't disagree more.
Peace!
I'm sorry, hun .. but here I draw a line.
I couldn't disagree more.
Peace!
I think that there WILL be repercussions , in that if either Stella's or Alexander's clothes DON'T sell , it will be bye bye financial backing and they will be out on the street , so to speak .
Expect FAR more commercial collections from Lee McQueen , if he wants to retain PPR's backing . Pinault/Weinberg are as ruthless as Bernard Arnault : they are in it for the MONEY , and someone like Lee will be sent to the wall PRONTO if he does not sell . Artistic integrity counts for NOTHING if the bottom line is weak .
That's why Stella will be Quaking in her non-leather boots at this moment in time .
Tom Ford and Domenico de Sole were personal friends of their roster of young designers , that's for sure , and without their backing , Lee , Stella , Nicolas and Thomas will be contemplating the future with a great deal less equanimity than before .
KIT
Expect FAR more commercial collections from Lee McQueen , if he wants to retain PPR's backing . Pinault/Weinberg are as ruthless as Bernard Arnault : they are in it for the MONEY , and someone like Lee will be sent to the wall PRONTO if he does not sell . Artistic integrity counts for NOTHING if the bottom line is weak .
That's why Stella will be Quaking in her non-leather boots at this moment in time .
Tom Ford and Domenico de Sole were personal friends of their roster of young designers , that's for sure , and without their backing , Lee , Stella , Nicolas and Thomas will be contemplating the future with a great deal less equanimity than before .
KIT
ehhhmmm
PPR needs turnovers and will certainly keep supporting money loosing
'stable' companies regardless the 'prestige'
i also feel they will 'invest' more on French designers
to be honest i dont think McQueen is facing a problem, because he's selling
Being on the red... Stella and Nicolas G. may be on the tight spot...
PPR needs turnovers and will certainly keep supporting money loosing
'stable' companies regardless the 'prestige'
i also feel they will 'invest' more on French designers
to be honest i dont think McQueen is facing a problem, because he's selling
Being on the red... Stella and Nicolas G. may be on the tight spot...
I'd have to say I'm not optimistic on these two's chances of turning in profits, with or without the recent turn of events.
I'm slightly more partial towards Mcqueen than McCartney, though that's not saying much. The latter's designs and aesthetics are simply not my cup of tea.
As much as I admire Ford's vision, I must say I have truly questioned his choices in buying up these two designers since day one. Balenciaga was a great buy, and for relatively little money the Gucci Group bought themselves both an extraodinary young talent in Ghesquiere as well as a venerable (but tarnished) house in Balenciaga. But while Mcqueen does occasionally show sparks of brilliance, IMO the quality of his collections is woefully inconsistent, and doesn't quite bear the mark of a designer who'd eventually become commercially viable. And I still maintain the opinion that, whatever they do, the money needed to turn around YSL is simply too vast to justify its purchase.
There were SO many other individual labels out there at the time of the Gucci Group's spending spree that are, IMO, much better candidates as additions to their portfolio of brands. I would love to see a strong financial backing behind labels like Costume National, Dirk Schonberger, Neil Barrett, and even Carol Christian Poell. But may be that's just my subjective taste that's doing the talking.
When you look at the competition, as dim as the financial papers at Prada appear to be, the bottom line is that they've got three immensely coveted brands in their hands. One might argue that there is quite a bit of an overlap among Helmut Lang, Jil Sander, and Prada, in that the three of them are competing for pretty much the same clientele, but that also means the Group has a virtual iron grip on these consumers. As long as Bertelli keeps his frivolous spendings in check, it's only a matter of time before Prada gets back into top financial shape.
Not so with Gucci. YSL was struggling to stay on track with their plan to see profits by 2005, even without the recent fiasco. Mcqueen and McCartney, well these two don't need much explanation, they're as dire as one could possibly imagine financially. Bottega Veneta occupies a niche that by nature takes a substantial amount of time to get established and profitable. Balenciaga's picture is quite rosy, but the brand's still far too exclusive and low-volume to make much of a difference to its parent company. The real dark horse of the pack might actually be Sergio Rossi, who's been steadily revving up its sales and strengthening its distribution network, despite its lack of a buzz factor. But ultimately the group will have to rely solely on Gucci's earnings to compensate for the losses on behalf of most of its stablemates, and if the shareholders were already frowning back when Tom and Dom were there to constantly reassure them, I can't imagine what'd happen now that PPR is left to its own devices.
Call me a cynic, but I think the only deterrent to selling the two "big Macs" would simply be the complete lack of any potential buyer.
I'm slightly more partial towards Mcqueen than McCartney, though that's not saying much. The latter's designs and aesthetics are simply not my cup of tea.
As much as I admire Ford's vision, I must say I have truly questioned his choices in buying up these two designers since day one. Balenciaga was a great buy, and for relatively little money the Gucci Group bought themselves both an extraodinary young talent in Ghesquiere as well as a venerable (but tarnished) house in Balenciaga. But while Mcqueen does occasionally show sparks of brilliance, IMO the quality of his collections is woefully inconsistent, and doesn't quite bear the mark of a designer who'd eventually become commercially viable. And I still maintain the opinion that, whatever they do, the money needed to turn around YSL is simply too vast to justify its purchase.
There were SO many other individual labels out there at the time of the Gucci Group's spending spree that are, IMO, much better candidates as additions to their portfolio of brands. I would love to see a strong financial backing behind labels like Costume National, Dirk Schonberger, Neil Barrett, and even Carol Christian Poell. But may be that's just my subjective taste that's doing the talking.
When you look at the competition, as dim as the financial papers at Prada appear to be, the bottom line is that they've got three immensely coveted brands in their hands. One might argue that there is quite a bit of an overlap among Helmut Lang, Jil Sander, and Prada, in that the three of them are competing for pretty much the same clientele, but that also means the Group has a virtual iron grip on these consumers. As long as Bertelli keeps his frivolous spendings in check, it's only a matter of time before Prada gets back into top financial shape.
Not so with Gucci. YSL was struggling to stay on track with their plan to see profits by 2005, even without the recent fiasco. Mcqueen and McCartney, well these two don't need much explanation, they're as dire as one could possibly imagine financially. Bottega Veneta occupies a niche that by nature takes a substantial amount of time to get established and profitable. Balenciaga's picture is quite rosy, but the brand's still far too exclusive and low-volume to make much of a difference to its parent company. The real dark horse of the pack might actually be Sergio Rossi, who's been steadily revving up its sales and strengthening its distribution network, despite its lack of a buzz factor. But ultimately the group will have to rely solely on Gucci's earnings to compensate for the losses on behalf of most of its stablemates, and if the shareholders were already frowning back when Tom and Dom were there to constantly reassure them, I can't imagine what'd happen now that PPR is left to its own devices.
Call me a cynic, but I think the only deterrent to selling the two "big Macs" would simply be the complete lack of any potential buyer.
its had to do with Ford, it was his idea of 'buying' the 'enemy'Originally posted by MissPurple@Mar 9th, 2004 - 3:11 pm
However, this has nothing to do with Gucci or Ford.
and bringing those labels in Gucci Group so....
now he's not in charge those brands is either make it or brake it
anyway, McQueen is profitable and will always be,
its Stella & Balenciaga that's deep in the red and face production problems.
and yes, i so agree with oro, Prada Group is in a much better state.
true Sander has not delivered yet, but i guess its a bit early to judge.
Lang sells pretty well (with very reasonable price tags)
and miumiu/prada are on a very good way.
their only problem is over investing in mega shops ...
& the not-so-succesful Prada beauty venture.
i wish they kept a lower profile/higher quality direction, it would suit them best.
mikeijames
no tom ford, no thanks.
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i understand what you are saying about confusion because with the lack of direction in the group but if you look at the collections in lvmh (esp. galliano and vuitton) i find a certain disjointedness that i haven't found in other seasons. i think that the industry as a whole is looking for a unifying direction. and i think that many collections this season are flukes.
its had to do with Ford, it was his idea of 'buying' the 'enemy'Originally posted by Lena+Mar 9th, 2004 - 7:27 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lena @ Mar 9th, 2004 - 7:27 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-MissPurple@Mar 9th, 2004 - 3:11 pm
However, this has nothing to do with Gucci or Ford.
and bringing those labels in Gucci Group so....
now he's not in charge those brands is either make it or brake it
[/b][/quote]
yeah I see that, in terms of the Stella "label" in the future. but I was just saying the "confusion" in terms of style/design in the F/W Stella McCartney had nothing to do with Gucci/Ford.
Mcqueen has been profitable and Balenciaga is in the red? That's surprising to me, I've always thought it was the other way around.
If with Ghesquiere at the helm (and for quite a few years now) the house is still failing to make any money, I can't imagine what it looked like before Gucci took over, or even before Ghesquiere was appointed. Since the take over they haven't been expanding anywhere near the rate of YSL either, so I don't think expansion costs were a major factor.
As far as I know both Lang and Sander are currently losing money, but these two have been opening new shops and expanding product lines like crazy, and should be back on track within a few years.
If with Ghesquiere at the helm (and for quite a few years now) the house is still failing to make any money, I can't imagine what it looked like before Gucci took over, or even before Ghesquiere was appointed. Since the take over they haven't been expanding anywhere near the rate of YSL either, so I don't think expansion costs were a major factor.
As far as I know both Lang and Sander are currently losing money, but these two have been opening new shops and expanding product lines like crazy, and should be back on track within a few years.
I think you are judging solely by the North American market. It's just the women over here (no hard feelings, please) can't fit into Lee's clothes - I don't know why. If he just changed the cut a little, it'd be flying off the shelves here. Also, I don't understand the reasoning behind curtailing his men's line (at least in North America)- I guess it never sold well.
I also disagree about HL, Jil and Prada chasing the same customer - I, personally, would not touch either Jil or Prada with a ten-foot pole, while liking a lot of HL (and I know plenty of customers like me). The similarity of their styles is extremely superficial.
Balenciaga is in the red because their clothes don't fit ANYONE, period. This has been discussed before. And noone takes Stella seriously, she is who she is - a rich girl with connections - she did not make her name by creating beautiful clothes.
While Tom was at the hem it was Gucci and YSL carrying the flag, but now that he's gone they'll have to advertise even heavier (if that's possible), and I think they will put more pressure on the rest of the team to produce more sellable clothing.
thats right, Balenciaga has a huge fitting & production problem (those 'designs' cannot be produced in a P.a.P basis) plus Stella (including her three self owned shops) sold something less than 500.000 pounds worth of garments last YEAR which really says quite a lot (i've heard her 'quality' standards are pretty low)
stylegurrl
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Lena, I found your last comment regarding Stella's quality standards to be very interesting. Aren't her clothes produced in Italy? I have heard that the Italians have very high standards and do excellent work. Where do you think the problem lies? I am curious about this because I hope to have my own line someday.
~Tashi
I'm sure Lena will answer this better for you, but my .02 c, the designer still picks the fabrics and the contractors who make the clothes - and both range broadly in quality and price. It's a common error to regard everything made in italy well made. I also, at least personally, think that the craftmanship of the beligans and the french is better anyway.Originally posted by stylegurrl@Mar 9th, 2004 - 10:54 am
Lena, I found your last comment regarding Stella's quality standards to be very interesting. Aren't her clothes produced in Italy? I have heard that the Italians have very high standards and do excellent work. Where do you think the problem lies? I am curious about this because I hope to have my own line someday.
~Tashi
not all 'made in Italy' garments are top quality..
plus not all 'made in Italy' garments are actually produced in Italy..
you would be surprised
i have no experience of Stella's clothes,
-curious that the hot designer shops that i visit don't store her collections-
i've heard bad comments from stylist friends and also from
our very own acid who could not believe the state of Stellas work
while on a 'field' tour with his school at the Selfridges store in store area,
if i remember well, he has posted it was the worst quality he ever saw
(including lack of craftmanship in garment construction)
plus not all 'made in Italy' garments are actually produced in Italy..
you would be surprised
i have no experience of Stella's clothes,
-curious that the hot designer shops that i visit don't store her collections-
i've heard bad comments from stylist friends and also from
our very own acid who could not believe the state of Stellas work
while on a 'field' tour with his school at the Selfridges store in store area,
if i remember well, he has posted it was the worst quality he ever saw
(including lack of craftmanship in garment construction)
stylegurrl
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Thank you faust. I appreciated your .02 c 
Thank you Lena
I have only seen a couple of items by Stella in person, namely a corset and corset dress from her last collection. I didn't like the way they were made but had attributed that entirely to her design-the unfinished trim etc. I had also noticed that in the photos I have seen of celebrities wearing her clothes, they rarely fit properly. Now I understand why.
Thank you Lena
I have only seen a couple of items by Stella in person, namely a corset and corset dress from her last collection. I didn't like the way they were made but had attributed that entirely to her design-the unfinished trim etc. I had also noticed that in the photos I have seen of celebrities wearing her clothes, they rarely fit properly. Now I understand why.
Is Mcqueen planning to distribute his new line of menswear in North America? From what little I've seen of his old line (the one whose N.A sales was discontinued), I must say I'm not impressed. I remember seeing an entire line of denim pieces with garish sewn-on patches that looked distinctly amateurish.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the perceived similarity of clientele among the 3 brands owned by Prada. There are indeed superficial similarities among them that those in the know can easily see beyond, however one should bear in mind that the average consumer, even one that buys designer clothing, most likely wouldn't invest the time and energy into reaching such insights. To the casual observer, all 3 brands represent a minimalist, functionalist aesthetic that emerged during the 90's, with an architectural emphasis on cutting. I for one shop all three of them, and I know many others who do, though I do appreciate the subtle differences and nuances in their individual philosophies.
I'm really curious about Balenciaga's alleged fit problems. It really did strike me as a surprise, since editorially their collections are so well received. But then again I'm much more interested in menswear than in womenswear so I must have missed a lot of important pieces in the whole story. His newly launched menswear isn't selling well by the way, or so I've read. The prices IMO are stratospheric even by designer standards, and while I like his style I don't think it's something that most North American men would find appealing.
metal-on-metal
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I think the Balenciaga men's collection is perfect for anyone with a Nicolas Ghesquiere frame--short and extremely thin. Anyone with a little meat or muscle has trouble fitting into those clothes. It's a pity because his men's collections are really interesting and I think they adapt the women's trends in a clever manner. But no one's gonna buy a $3000 black coat that won't even fit their body. How does Balenciaga come up with these prices anyway?
I think the Balenciaga men's collection is perfect for anyone with a Nicolas Ghesquiere frame--short and extremely thin. Anyone with a little meat or muscle has trouble fitting into those clothes. It's a pity because his men's collections are really interesting and I think they adapt the women's trends in a clever manner. But no one's gonna buy a $3000 black coat that won't even fit their body. How does Balenciaga come up with these prices anyway? [/b][/quote]
Much of the same could be said about Hedi Slimane and Dior Homme , except for ' short and thin ' , read ' tall and thin ' .
The collection for A/W 04/05 from Dior Homme SEEMS to be a little more realistic as far as ' fit ' is concerned .
I have seen pieces from the Balenciaga collection for men in Harvey Nicks and I COULD NOT BELIEVE the prices , when the quality was by no means exceptional .
As many have said here on this forum , a little realism in luxury fashion is now in order , whether it be Gucci , Stella , Nicholas etc etc .
KIT
