Versace

Discussion in 'Designers and Collections' started by ignitioned32, Dec 27, 2003.

  1. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    Actually, LV was originally created by the teenage Louis Vuitton as the private label of Empress Josephine. Versace, the label of choice of the late fashion great Princess Diana I think could hardly be called mainstream, unless most ppl you know buy that expensive china etc... [/b][/quote]
    Yes LV was a exclusive label before but now it is really, really popular thanks to Marc and it's accesories dep't. Versace is too a mainstream label thanks to Gianni's designs which have mass appeal. There not intellectual clothes, that's why. I don't really get you... :unsure:
     
  2. shajopri

    shajopri New Member

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    Gianni's clothes are very intellectual because they made Greek mythology, the baroque period, and the neoclassical period relevant to the modern day. Also, turn of the century Russia is featured in his China. It has been worn by Princesses, rock stars, and first ladies, and therefore is not a mainstream label. LV, if you know the history, the tradition, and the handicraft is also a luxury label. If you don't know the story behing the bag and it's creator, I can see why you would consider it mainstream.
     
  3. Spacemiu

    Spacemiu New Member

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    mainstream dos not neccisarily mean every body, it means not edgy, not avant garde, somt thing that is apart of mass culture.
     
  4. PrinceOfCats

    PrinceOfCats Naturellement pulpeuse

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    Gianni's clothes don't express that deep ideas about Greek mythology really...I mean a few keystone patterns and a Medusa's head is hardly the full works of Plato condensed...
     
  5. tott

    tott slightly dizzy

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    ...

    ?
     
  6. Lena

    Lena etre soi-meme

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    ...

    ? [/b][/quote]
    .... ? indeed
     
  7. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    First of all, like PrinceOfCats said,
    He just added a few details or copied designs from those periods (that's hardly intellectual) that could be used as details or decorations that could go with his outfits. I mean he didn't make those modern it was just ripe for those days like cheongsograms from centuries ago could be worn today. If you wanna talk intellectual talk Yamamoto or Kawakubo.

    Secondly, the more it is mainstream when it is worn by celebs. I think you didn't understand me. When I said mainstream I meant appealing to the masses, a majority. I didn't literally meant everybody wears it, though that could be true. I saw a guy wearing Versace goth pants last week in Burger King. Real or Fake doesn't matter it still appealed to him didn't it?

    The same goes for LV. When I meant it was a mainstream label I didn't literally really mean everybody wears. Though again *sigh* it could be true. WHy do you think Mukaramis were a hit and launched a thousand copy cats and fakes and so many women wrote their names on that waiting list and many women (even celebs) carry the fakes. I know it was once a luxury label but thanks to global marketing it is now mainstream.

    And don't give me that "if you didn't know.." PLEASE! I know that.

    PS Great word Blu. :lol: :flower:
     
  8. ebowleg

    ebowleg New Member

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    I admit that Gianni's clothes were not intellectual, but his designs were highly original. To be honest, how can many designers designs be deemed original when many of them recall history. John Galliano does it, and I never see anyone busting him for it. It seems to me that fashion itself is repetitive no matter how you look at it.

    Whether or not you like Versace's designs, you have to admit that Gianni bought something new to the table. Something, that at that time, was not available. Don't hate on him because his designs lack the overall deep rooted thinking process.
     
  9. shajopri

    shajopri New Member

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    First of all, like PrinceOfCats said,
    He just added a few details or copied designs from those periods (that's hardly intellectual) that could be used as details or decorations that could go with his outfits. I mean he didn't make those modern it was just ripe for those days like cheongsograms from centuries ago could be worn today. If you wanna talk intellectual talk Yamamoto or Kawakubo.

    Secondly, the more it is mainstream when it is worn by celebs. I think you didn't understand me. When I said mainstream I meant appealing to the masses, a majority. I didn't literally meant everybody wears it, though that could be true. I saw a guy wearing Versace goth pants last week in Burger King. Real or Fake doesn't matter it still appealed to him didn't it?

    The same goes for LV. When I meant it was a mainstream label I didn't literally really mean everybody wears. Though again *sigh* it could be true. WHy do you think Mukaramis were a hit and launched a thousand copy cats and fakes and so many women wrote their names on that waiting list and many women (even celebs) carry the fakes. I know it was once a luxury label but thanks to global marketing it is now mainstream.

    And don't give me that "if you didn't know.." PLEASE! I know that.

    PS Great word Blu. :lol: :flower: [/b][/quote]
    So if something is so beautiful (like the LV bag) that tons of ppl like that means it's mainstream? You can show ppl a picture of the most intellectual and obscure clothes like Elsa Schiaparelli and they'll like that. Something isn't mainstream and brainless just because it appeals to ppl. Are you saying that clothing is only good if it turns most people off? Also, if you look at the mix of baroque, neoclassical, and rococo, Russian, Italian, and Florida, Old enlish text, and Poseidon, and Medusa, the jungle, the rainforest, the era of the czars to the court of Louis XIV, the non traditional colors, the Roman gods and the way they are mixed combined and integrated you realize that they are very intellectual.
     
  10. PrinceOfCats

    PrinceOfCats Naturellement pulpeuse

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    Erm...each to their own but I wouldn't call that intellectual. Greek mythology introduced key concepts into literature - the monsters and beasties were just a little sugar on top. The concepts were -

    Sexual-dominance of women
    The hero
    The individual
    Indentity
     
  11. shajopri

    shajopri New Member

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    The greeks didn't introduce these things, they "borrowed" them from African religions. The gods were pretty much on an even playing field when it came to sexuality. Women like Artemis heldfast to their virginity, Aphrodite was more liberal and had affairs with Aries. Zeus was a sedeucer, but so was Calypso. Circe believed that women were superior, while Orpheus used his talent, rather than physical force to woo women. No one gender really dominated the other. Each god had his only sexual strengths and style. You're right about greek lit focusing on individualism and identity and the hero, but so does Versace. He was an openly gay man, who preferred his sister to all other women, claimed to dress "egos" and helped to create identities Hurley's safety pen dress, Diana's light blue, and Donatella made the J. Lo green dress. Sharon Stone's white wedding gown and Eltons glittery suits are just as much a part of their identities as Paris's apple, and Athena's shield. From the mesh Amazon warrior dresses, to the baroque bed spreads, wearing Gianni's clothes made you an archetype. He further stretched the idea of individualism by playing loud rock music at his concerts and leaving Europe for Florida. He was different from the rest of the fashionistas, and personifies the concept of the individual with a strong identity of heroic proportions. Further more, his sexy clothes were encomium and hyperbole for the body, and his secret techniques that push a woman's body into all of the right places highlighted the form -- also like Greek art. His clothes were metaphors and he made modern day stars look like they just left Mt. Olympus. Just as everyone can relate to Greek myth (which I guess makes it mainstream according to spacemiu) because Gianni used the principles of Greecian art and literature people can also relate to it. That's why the clothes are highly intellectual. People who think that the Medusa's head is the only allusion to classicm haven't looked hard enough at the details.
     
  12. PrinceOfCats

    PrinceOfCats Naturellement pulpeuse

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    As the African culture has almost no written documentation at that time it's almost impossible to say that the Greeks "borrowed" their themes from African religion. Furthermore Africa's feudal and superstious beliefs at that time prevented the development of any real literature. One of the key reasons that the Greeks did so much for science and the arts is because they were among the first democracies.

    The sexual-dominance of women most certainly is a key-theme in Greek literature and mythology and if you read any basic primer on Greek classics you will be told so. Gods were Gods but there are virtually no examples of a woman being seduced by a man in the Greek classics.

    As for the clothes what do they about individualism? Sure, they make people into individuals but what deep revelations do they give us about our search for individualism? All Gianni's clothes say is 'people are individuals' what kind of novel would that be? A bloody awful one...
     
  13. shajopri

    shajopri New Member

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    THis is the most ignorant racist thing I have ever heard. The Africans were the first people to have written literature which was widespread. Africa had no more superstitions than any other culture, including modern day America while the greeks had many including that a bird flying from the left mean good luck, and someone sneezing after you made a wish would make it come true. Not only were Africans the first race to do math, science, cook their food, have democracies, focus on education, read, allow women in political, social, and business realms, but the Greeks learned from them about culture. African lit was up and going strong long before the greeks, so take your racist incorrect trash elsewhere before you pollute more minds with your nonsense.
     
  14. PrinceOfCats

    PrinceOfCats Naturellement pulpeuse

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    I'm sorry but that's utter crap. African culture still believed in feudal dictatorship and genital mutilation for women at that time. Greek, Persian, Phonecian and Chinese cultures developed literature long before there are any records of written art in Africa.
     
  15. shajopri

    shajopri New Member

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    THis is incorrect. Africa had democracies, councils, and kingdoms at the time. THey also had written lit before anyone. The Ethiopians, Timbuktu, Nigeria, Egypt ect. amond many others were writing. ca. 4500 Ancient Egyptians begin using burial texts to accompany their dead, first known written documents. Ancient Egyptians, who called their land Kemet (Land of the Blacks) and Ta-Meri (Beloved Land), were primarily agriculturists who, with the practice of irrigation and animal husbandry, transformed the Nile Valley into a vibrant food-producing economy by 5000 B.C. Their settled lifestyle allowed them to develop skills in glass making, pottery, metallurgy, weaving, woodworking, leather work, and masonry. In this latter craft, ancient Egyptian practitioners excelled in architecture, as the pyramids attest. Ancient Africans believed that the deity Dhehuti [Thoth] invented writing…. Dhehuti, who became the Greek Hermes, was associated with wisdom and knowledge. Later, throughout the continent, many traditional African cultures developed "secret societies, actually societies of secrets,…with their own scripts" (e.g., the Vai, Bambara, Benin, Bakongo, Peul, and Akan). "As symbol systems for sacred occasions, these scripts are often under the control of specially trained and consecrated priests" Creative literature included poems, plays, and narratives, as well as the oldest religious and ethical texts which include the "Pyramid Texts" and the "Declarations of Virtues." Greek philosophy, as well as many of the basic tenets of the major world religions, were pre-configured in ancient Egyptian civilization," which early Greek philosophers would later acknowledge the debt that they owed to " Egyptian knowledge systems in which they were educated" (Mutere). However, it was not until the 19th century, and the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, that scholars were able to decipher the ancient Kemetic writings on stone and papyrus. The Rosetta Stone now stands in the British Museum, London.
     
  16. shajopri

    shajopri New Member

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    Also, while a minority of africans did believe in genital mutilation, european druids were sacrificing babies. Maybe this information will disperse your ignorance. An exhibition titled “Ancient Manuscripts from the Desert Libraries of Timbuktu” will open at the Library of Congress on Tuesday, June 24. The exhibition has been planned in conjunction with the Smithsonian Folklife Festival on the National Mall, which will feature the cultural heritage of Mali.

    “The Library of Congress is pleased to exhibit these important cultural artifacts from Mali as part of a continuing effort to create a universal collection reflecting human endeavor from all geographic areas and historical eras,” said Librarian of Congress James H. Billington.

    Copies of the manuscripts in the exhibition will become part of the Library’s extensive Africana collection, which contains several ancient West African manuscripts similar to those in the exhibition. Among the items on display are “Kashf al-Gummah fi Nafa al-Ummah” (Important Stars in the Multitudes of the Heavens), an astronomy text copied at Timbuktu in 1733; “Arbab al-Khartumi, al-Jawahir al-Hissan fi Marifat Arkan al-Iman” (A Jewel of Beauty for Learning the Pillars of Faith), a text book for teaching the basic tenets of Islam and “Said Ahmad ibn Amar a-Raqadi al-Tumbukti al-Kunti, Shifa al-Saqam al-Aridah fi al-Zahir wa al-Batin” (Curing Defects and Diseases, Both Apparent and Hidden), a study of diseases, their remedies, and medications.

    Though known to African communities for generations, the recognition of these texts by Western academics has created a breakthrough in recent scholarship. Once believed to be solely based on oral tradition, African culture has also been passed down through a rich literary tradition as evidenced by the existence of these manuscripts.
    The objective of this meeting was the initiation of an ongoing effort to bring the ancient religious texts of Ethiopia to the attention of world scholarship to be done by digital photocopying and filming on the site of their permanent location in Ethiopia. There are an estimated 300,000 ancient religious texts of an inestimable value to world scholarship, perhaps well beyond that of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
    THese are just a few examples of AFrican culture and lit and their influence on the Greeks. THere are tons more.
     
  17. PrinceOfCats

    PrinceOfCats Naturellement pulpeuse

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    The first example of actual 'literature' as oppposed to writing in ancient Egypt is dated to 2010 B.C. - long after other cultures had devloped techniques far in advance of this. Egypt was a feudal dictatorship under a Pharoh and over 90% of the African land-mass was governed by feudal dictatorships until the mid 1900's.

    Chinese metallurgy and science was far in advance of that of ancient Egypt and their techniques spread into Africa and Europe via trades such as the early Phonecians.

    The first iron weapons and tools were introduced into Egypt from Assyria. The first real african metal-work was pioneered in 603 B.C. by the Carthiginians - long after European and Asian cultures had developed iron and bronze-working.

    The agriculurally developed Africa you talk of is nearly entirely the north. Large parts of the south of Africa remained under hunter-gatherer culture until at least Anno Domini.

    Greek culture was among the first in the world to be ruled by leaders who promoted free-art and secular interests. Africa on the other hand was still steeped in tradition and superstition at this time. The works of Plato and Aristotle are more advanced than anything Africa produced Before Christ.
     
  18. shajopri

    shajopri New Member

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    As I wrote there was tons of poetry and stories. Of did you not read my post? WHile the pharoah oversaw the land, there was great autonomy and opportunity for growth and prosperity, and autonomy. As posted, the AFricans were first and the most advanced in math, science, astronomy, metallurgy, government. They traded with other cultures which is how the knowledge spread. Agriculture was all over Africa, as we know from the Zulu, the Herero, and many others. African philosophy was more advanced then that of the Greeks, and art and literature were not only encouraged and funded by the leaders, but appreciated by the people at large. You are determined to believe incorrect information even when presented with the truth. Why are you so set on believing that the Africans were a superstitious primitive culture when there is so much proof to the contrary. By holding these ignorant beliefs you fly in the face os scholarship, anthropology, and the best of the world's historians. SInce racism seems to be embedded in you, I doubt that I can change your mind, and I certainly have more important things to do than argue, but I hope that others can read my posts and realize that Africa was the leader in every field in the ancient world.
     
  19. PrinceOfCats

    PrinceOfCats Naturellement pulpeuse

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    In two word: **** off. Libel laws remain exactly the same on the internet as anywhere else and calling me a racist is ignorant and moronic in the extreme.

    Africans were not the first or the most advanced. Metallurgy was invented by the Chinese and pioneered by cultures of the near-east. Pythagoras laid down all the principles of modern algebra - no African mathematician has ever done so much for the field of mathematics as he did. As pure physics is simply applied maths this also makes him one of the greatest scientists of all time. Although seen as rather crude by modern standards Greek philosophy was in advance of that of just about any country until 1500 A.D. African philosophy did not approach such levels of complexity and did not recognize more advanced metaphysical concepts such as the idea of 'self' being false. There is not one example of African philosophy from the early period which distinguishes ethics from meta-ethics.

    Egypt was a brutal, feudal dictatorship with clearly defined peasants and aristocrats it promoted a non-secular state and rule by the elite. You are an utter moron if you believe it to even approach democracy.

    I happen to get my information from the rather large library my university has. You on the other hand appear to remove it from your anal rectum.
     
  20. kit

    kit New Member

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    :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

    ENOUGH ALREADY !!!!!!!

    :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent:

    KIT
     

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