What's Wrong with the Fashion Industry?

Discussion in 'Fashion... In Depth' started by YohjiAddict, Jun 14, 2017.

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  1. YohjiAddict

    YohjiAddict Active Member

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    #1 YohjiAddict, Jun 14, 2017
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  2. YohjiAddict

    YohjiAddict Active Member

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    #2 YohjiAddict, Jun 14, 2017
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  3. dsamg

    dsamg Active Member

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    Thank you for posting! Really interesting read. Jesus, Tim Blanks' Galliano story was revolting. I guess he was always a ticking time bomb.
     
  4. Benn98

    Benn98 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much for starting this thread, YojiAddict! :flower:

    The article isn't dated, but I'm assuming this chat happened while Raf was still at Dior, and Glenn O'Brien was still alive.

    There are certainly a lot of topical issues discussed here. I very much agree with most of what Jean-Jaques, Robin, and Glenn said about young designers. Tim (Walker, obviously) also touched on something very important as well:

    But Thom Browne's commentary just diminished the minimal respect I had for him as a designer. So insufferable and selfish, it's all 'me, me, me'. I could kick myself for never picking up on that.

    Of course, as a magazine lover, the following quote stood out because it's something I've picked up in numerous indies as well (especially ID!). In a warped sense, the fluffy titles such as Vogue and Bazaar actually get away with more liberty in terms of styling. The worst you can demand from them is head-to-toe looks....

     
    #5 Benn98, Jun 14, 2017
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  5. YohjiAddict

    YohjiAddict Active Member

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    That quote just confirms my suspicion that indie magazine are becoming increasingly reliant on advertisers. Just this spring AnOther released an issue featuring both a Prada and a Comme des Garcons advertorial, the latter is obviousy not an advertiser in the traditional sense of the word but the amound of editorial space indie magazines (Especially but not exclusively: Dazed, AnOther and i-D ) devote to the brand is unparalleled...
     
    #6 YohjiAddict, Jun 14, 2017
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  6. madame_georgiana

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    If someone was brave enough to produce a magazine that didn't let the advertisers dictate the style and demand head2toe looks, I think it would be very popular. Most magazines are not worth buying, nothing remotely interesting. I hate head to toe looks, I want to see mix and match like REALITY. Yet I forgot nothing about the fashion industry anymore is based in reality. It's quite sad.
     
  7. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the links, YohjiAddict. Very good stuff. I’ll be reading the rest tonight.

    You’re in for a terrible rude awakening Benn, if you think Thom is the only one that’s all about “me, me, me”…. Everyone in the industry is in it for themselves. For most of us who do this for a living— and not a big name, or associated with one, it’s even more ruthless. Jackels fighting for scraps comes to mind. Thom admitting that it’s every men and women for themselves is just the blunt truth-- maybe arrogance, more than selfish or insufferable.

    (What I find more shocking than anything else so far is that Tim Blanks thinks Altuzarra is “genius”…)
     
  8. dior_couture1245

    dior_couture1245 Fat Karl

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    HA! I was thinking the exact same thing! Quite a kick out of that one. I did appreciate how, in the same breath, he described the Proenza boys as "banal." Glad to hear someone say it!

    Re: Tim Blanks, though...I found it quite tasteless of him, to be honest, to account so specifically Galliano's rough behavior (not that I'm excusing Galliano's accounted behavior). Clearly, though, he also admits that Galliano could neither hold his liquor or his drugs. That's sad. And I find that it reflects poorly on Tim. If this is the kind of behavior you are witnessing, and you are also conscious that said poor behavior is coming from a place of substance abusive and instability...did he pull John aside? Prevent him from embarrassing himself? Reach out to a friend or colleague of John's? No - everyone seemed perfectly content to watch Galliano (and McQueen) self destruct.

    Granted, I believe in personal responsibility, and I don't see McQueen or Galliano as fully innocent victims - they played their parts in their own demise. And I think it's also a harrowing fact of life that few wish to admit - with such genius in one individual comes much internal turmoil. Life is all push and pull, give and take, high and low, and when these two men were given the most incredible gifts that were their creative vision and creative energy, it is no surprise it came with a bitter reality that living out that great gift is often a responsibility too much to bear.

    So, again, as I said, quite tasteless to read Tim so casually describe an incredibly talented and gifted person in clearly such a sad state.
     
    #9 dior_couture1245, Jun 14, 2017
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  9. fashionista-ta

    fashionista-ta Well-Known Member

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    ^ I had a bit different reaction, I don't think it's tasteless to recount, but I agree with you that people shouldn't simply watch the train wreck. Not that attempting to help will necessarily do any good, but it should be done anyway ...

    This is an amazing series, thanks for posting, YohjiAddict. I'm struck while reading it how intelligent and interesting Glenn O'Brien was, and what a d!ck Andy Spade is.

    I found this quite salient, and information many tFSers seem unaware of ...

     
    #10 fashionista-ta, Jun 15, 2017
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  10. Benn98

    Benn98 Well-Known Member

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    So true! Also there's the Dior editorial (or rather, advertorial) in the current issue of POP.
    I expect these magazines will also use the same excuse young designers and indie brands are using - 'we simply cannot survive on our own'. Imo, that's a half-truth. It's a well-documented fact that audiences are actually steering more towards indies and supplements. And imo, that may be purely because they don't force aspiration the way mainstream titles does. Also, the gritty manner in which content is created (less commercial), the message, the (apparent) sense of creative liberty. Whether by instinct or blatant awareness, indies and supplements are actually increasing their audience quarter after quarter. Brands are picking up on that. So instead of targeting Vogue or Elle, whose audience they already have in their pocket, why not focus on the burgeoning ID clan.

    Question is, what is the purpose of an indie when they employ exactly the same tactics as a mainstream title, only more covertly? I think the entire way they're going about their business right now, that is, aggressively pushing the goods of their advertisers (like they've done in that Pop/Dior edit), is actually at odds with their brand values. People are getting increasingly savvy, and to think that they can continue to pull the wool over their readers' eyes is ridiculous. This where I hate the fact that fashion just about blew up over the past decade. Because before that it meant that indies such as Another or ID could go without any stringent advertising demands, whereas now it seems they cannot.

    I thinks this may also be part of the reason why there's such a malaise sweeping in fashion imagery at the moment. Editors have been converted into marketing managers. Dior sends their collection, and you must build your story around that as opposed to vice versa. If you're lucky enough to mix and match, you better make sure the balance between brands are solid, or else face the music. It's all too formulaic!

    I can be very credulous when it comes to certain designers, especially the ones whose work I admire. I associate the craft with the personality, you see. But in this series Thom really turned me off. This overt display of ego is very tacky. This was supposed to be a broad discussion about the industry, yet he kept bringing it to him.
     
  11. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ As mentioned Benn, you are in for it if you associate the craft with the personality LOL I will never associate the genius, ingenuity, vision, talent etc of a designer, photographer and any creatives I admire in the industry with the person— that’s just asking to be punched in the throat. A friend of mind, who’s on amicable terms with some of fashiondom’s royalties, met Alexander McQueen in 2010, and she’s someone that usually finds the nicest side of any human, also would be in agreement with Tim’s impression of the Alexander.

    I’m not sure why some have decided to be so blunt about their distaste for certain individuals in this interview, it does come off as mean (even to someone as icy-hearted as myself LOL). But I can totally understand their lack of warmth towards Hussein; they seems to confirm my suspicion of why I find him unbearable the few glimpses I’ve seen of him on the screen LOL Tim’s revelation about John and Alexander seems more hardened diva-ness than lack of humanity/sympathy for what he observed as damaged people on a destructive rampage. Never got the impression Tim was closed with either one, so why would he be responsible to lend a shoulder in either case…? I just get that his encounter with them were purely through social and professional instances. And now that he’s heading BoF, with John being extremely humbled these days, maybe it’s just a case of the mean girls attitude: Distasteful and unnecessary— but not unwarranted. Funny how Tim Walker only has one comment…? And LULZ at this Andy Spade person… I guess he’s related to Kate? Who cares. ... And Thom is just fine…

    BTW, never considered Another, Dazed, i-D etc as indie. They are definitely branded as an alternative to the more mainstream publications like Vogue, Elle Harper’s etc. But their advertisers and the teams involved in these publications are on the same level as any Vogues. (I suppose to readers of department-store flyers like InStyle, Glamour etc would definitely be considered these titles "indie"-- and likely too intimidating...)

    Even MAS’s Mastermind isn’t indie. Definitely alternative, just like Carinne’s Fashion Book, Purple etc.
     
    #12 Phuel, Jun 15, 2017
    Last edited by moderator massina: Jun 15, 2017
  12. fashionista-ta

    fashionista-ta Well-Known Member

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    ^ Yes, he's her husband. Also brother to comedian David Spade. Perhaps he missed his own SNL calling.

    Maybe I'm in the minority, but I didn't really perceive what Tim Blanks said as mean. He talked about not just the bad behavior, but also (some of) the causation in each case. He didn't just say, hey, what jerks!

    In my view, we're all in this human thing together, and if someone 'close' isn't there, then it's up to whoever is to act like a human being. I can see how the kind of behavior he describes would be a huge turnoff, though. If I were there, I don't know who I would've had the instinct to help ... but maybe one of the people whose clothes just got ruined as a result of someone else's stunningly bad behavior.
     
  13. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ LOL David Spade is related to all these Spades …?!??!?!? Such an annoying bunch!

    You seem like such a kind soul, but if someone that I only came across on social occasions was always arrogant, inconsiderate and seemingly self-destructive— and peeing on people to boot, I wouldn’t be so willing to offer a shoulder so generously. That’s assuming they would even acknowledge your presence; some internationally well-known critic put her hand out to my friend in that "talk to the hand" gesture when my friend approached her at an event once to just say hello. So if someone like that was so nasty, I can only imagine what John and Alexander may be capable of when they were still at their reign— and their most coked-up, drunken-stuper, self-destructive period.

    (I remember Tim did this piece on John’s Dior towards the end of his tenure for Fashion File that was very critical of his increasingly tacky designs. It was at a time when everyone adored John blindly-- and likely enabling his awful behavior. And Tim seemed like the only voice to point out John's clearly diminishing vision at the time.)
     
    #14 Phuel, Jun 15, 2017
    Last edited by moderator massina: Jun 15, 2017
  14. vetements

    vetements Member

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    Thanks YohjiAddict for the enjoyable read once again.

    Interesting info there there offers different angles to how they are normally perceived lol
     
  15. Benn98

    Benn98 Well-Known Member

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    Semantics, Phuel! :lol::lol::lol: But lets for fear of derailing into an unnecessary direction, just label them as 'alternative'. :cool::heart::pink::flower:
     
  16. nogooduser

    nogooduser New Member

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    <3 so happy to know someone else saw this series of interviews. Thanks to Vestoji and YohjiAddict! These articles completely changed how I view and understand fashion.
     
  17. MissMagAddict

    MissMagAddict The future is stupid

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  18. MissMagAddict

    MissMagAddict The future is stupid

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