WSJ article: Breaking a Taboo, High Fashion Starts Making Goods Overseas

Caffeine

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
4,005
Reaction score
556
Hopefully it's the right place to post:wink:

Breaking a Taboo, High Fashion
Starts Making Goods Overseas

Euro's Rise, Low-Cost Rivals,
Labor Costs Spur Gamble;
Not Always 'Made in Italy'

Egyptians Suit Valentino
By ALESSANDRA GALLONI in Cairo, Egypt, CECILIE ROHWEDDER in London and TERI AGINS in New York
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
September 27, 2005; Page A1

A desert wind blows through the open windows of a factory in Cairo that harbors one of the biggest secrets in Italian high fashion: Egyptian tailors.

Women in head-scarves stitch shoulder seams, press wrinkles out of silk-lined pockets and weave Italian fabric through digital sewing machines. They're making $1,300 men's suits for Valentino, one of the most storied names in Italian luxury. They learned the craft from videotapes on TV sets positioned around the factory floor.

For years, European luxury-goods firms manufactured T-shirts and jeans in Eastern Europe and North Africa, but drew the line at their fanciest collections, which commanded premium prices precisely because they were "Made in Italy." Now, pushed by rising labor costs, currency fluctuations and competition from low-price brands, Valentino and other firms in Italy and France are breaking one of the strictest taboos in high fashion: they're starting to produce some of their most exclusive lines in developing countries.

Celine, a unit of luxury goods giant LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton SA, is manufacturing some handbags in China, including its denim-and-leather Macadam bags, which sell for $500, according to people familiar with the matter. Though it still makes its swankiest label in Italy, Giorgio Armani SpA says it produces 18% of its Armani Collezioni -- which pitches wool trousers for $450 and silk jackets for $1,500 -- in Eastern Europe.

Even "Made in Italy" stalwarts such as Prada, Gucci and Tod's say they are tiptoeing into foreign sourcing. Last year, Gucci Group NV began sewing some sneakers at a factory in Serbia while leather-goods company Tod's SpA produces a part of its Hogan sneaker line in Hungary and is considering moving that to China.

"What do you care where I make my shoes?" says Prada Group NV Chief Executive Patrizio Bertelli. Where local laws permit, Mr. Bertelli says he'd prefer to insert a "Made by Prada" tag in his products. In addition to sewing the upper part of some shoes in Slovenia, Prada makes pieces for some of its handbags in Turkey.

The move out of France and Italy is only just beginning. Fashion executives say some production won't ever move to low-cost countries because Italian craftsmanship is still unparalleled. Sophisticated items made in low volumes -- such as hand-woven leather handbags -- may always be "Made in Italy," for example. For the rest, the industry thinks it's only a matter of time.

"It will take another 15 years until luxury brands' main lines are completely delocalized, but it will happen," said Tonino Perna, chief executive of IT Holding SpA, which manufactures relatively affordable collections for labels such as Versace and Dolce & Gabbana. IT Holding makes about 30% of its clothes and accessories abroad. Executives say privately that more fashion brands are producing outside of Europe than the number who care to admit it.

This shift underscores how the developing world's manufacturing talent is improving to the point where even quintessential luxury products are starting to move offshore. It's also a sign of the extent to which high-end products are under pressure from low-cost alternatives.

Companies from sneaker makers to automotive giants have long outsourced to China and Mexico, but luxury-goods brands have always touted Italian and French production as essential to the luxury experience. The "Made in Italy" label, with its centuries-old history of artisanship, has justified exorbitant prices. If their clothes are stitched at low-cost factories, how will consumers react? Will luxury brands eventually have to bow to pressure and lower prices at the expense of their margins?

Many Italian fashion houses fear a backlash if they're seen hastening the decline of Italy's textile industry. For more than a century, that sector helped power the Italian economy, the fourth-largest in Europe. As companies outsourced production, sales of Italian textiles have fallen more than 10% in the past three years, with 24,000 textile manufacturing jobs lost last year, according to Italy's textile association. How to stop the trend, which is contributing to Italy's current economic malaise, is a hotly debated political issue.

"Our 'Made in Italy' has to be defended with force," Claudio Scajola, Italian Minister for Productive Activities, said at the Milan fashion shows, which started this week.

Alaa Arafa, the businessman who owns the Egyptian factory making Valentino suits, has little sympathy for such complaints. "Yes, some Italian jobs will be lost, but the writing is already on the wall," he says. "No Italian girl will sit at the sewing machine anymore, no matter how much you pay her."

As a result, executives are beginning to change their tune. "We can't be closed-minded. China will be part of the process for everybody," says Franco Pene, chairman of Gibo SpA, a high-end Italian manufacturer that produces clothes for fashion labels Marc Jacobs, Michael Kors and Paul Smith. Gibo says that for now, it produces only in Italy.

Mystique and Aura

The "Made in Italy" mystique dates back to the early 20th century when artisans throughout the Italian peninsula began exporting their products and know-how. Neapolitan shoemaker Salvatore Ferragamo was one of the first to venture abroad when he hand-stitched shoes for Jean Harlow, Douglas Fairbanks and other 1920s Hollywood stars. Florentine leather-goods maker Gucci soon followed suit.

After World War II, Italian craftsmen developed a second expertise. Using new ways to wash yarn, the key to high-quality knits, Italy soon surpassed Scotland as the world's best knitwear producer. By the mid-1950s, the "Made in Italy" label had developed unparalleled snob appeal around the world. Even French companies such as Louis Vuitton and Chanel transferred some production to Italy.

The first shift came during the 1990s luxury-goods boom. Some high-end fashion companies quietly began moving production of secondary, cheaper lines to Eastern Europe to help meet rising demand. Italian handbag maker Francesco Biasia, whose purses sell for between $350 and $500, started shifting production to China and Eastern Europe in the late 1990s. Creative Director Claudio Biasia says the company gambled on what it saw as shifting tastes. "Younger consumers don't care where a product is made," he says. "They care about creativity."

In the past two years, new problems intensified this overseas shift. Luxury-goods companies never fully recovered from the economic slump that hit their profits beginning in 2001. At the same time, rivals such as Inditex SA's Zara and Hennes & Mauritz AB's H&M flooded the market with inexpensive but fashionable copies of catwalk designs, putting further pressure on the luxury business.

Finally, the increasing strength of the euro is eating into the margins of luxury-goods companies, which buy raw materials and pay workers in euros, but sell their products mostly outside the euro zone, in particular in the U.S. and Japan. Saving on production costs to boost margins has become an appetizing prospect.

"The euro-dollar relationship has become such that it has made it necessary for us to look outside this country to find a cost that is more advantageous," says Prada's Mr. Bertelli.

With this sea change comes some ticklish challenges, including managing logistical headaches. Italian leather-goods company Furla SpA began making some wallets and handbags in China in 2002, hoping to cut production costs in half, says company Chairman Giovanna Furlanetto. But because Furla needs to get products in stores fast, it's spending more than it expected moving goods by plane instead of by boat, which is less expensive but takes longer. As a result, it has cut costs by only 30%.

Fashion trends change so quickly that companies get only one shot to produce collections for any one season, a problem that makes quality control a top priority. Gucci says it tried using a factory in China to sew some of its sneakers but wasn't satisfied with the quality. Others have gone to extraordinary efforts to maintain quality. When Prada handed partial production of some shoes to a Slovenian factory last year, it dispatched the plant's workers to Tuscany for training. Independent New York fashion house Lafayette 148, which makes knitwear, sent one of the world's top knitwear experts to China two years ago to teach factory workers Italian knitting techniques.

Some companies argue that they lose nothing by moving offshore because they can no longer find skills that were once a core part of Italian craftsmanship. A talent to sew shoe uppers, for example, hasn't been passed on to younger generations of Italians.

Even harder than sustaining quality, executives agree, is managing the perceptions of consumers. Valentino, a unit of fashion and textile maker Marzotto SpA, rips out the "Made in Egypt" tags in its suits before shipping them to boutiques in Europe, where companies don't have to divulge where they make their products. For the U.S. and Japanese markets, where labeling rules are stricter, Valentino produces suits in Italy, where it also still makes its priciest items.

In the U.S. and Japan, "perceived quality is more important than real quality," says Valentino CEO Michele Norsa.

It's a proposition that seems to divide consumers. "If I knew an expensive piece came from China, I'd have a problem with it," says Robert Ekblom, a London-based banker. "I'd rather buy something unbranded," he adds. Daniela Witte, a 38-year-old stay-at-home mother, also from London, doesn't have such qualms: "If I love the color, the cut and the design, I don't give a toss about where it's made," she says.

Some luxury brands are hoping to educate consumers. Stitched inside Celine's Macadam handbags is a brown leather tag telling customers that the product is designed in Paris and "handcrafted in China with the greatest attention to quality and detail."

Others have dipped their toes in the water and withdrawn. Silvia Stein Bocchese, president of Miles SpA, a high-end Italian knitwear maker, says the company was happy with the crochet sweaters it manufactured in China for closely held Dolce & Gabbana. But the client asked her to stop because it wanted a "Made in Italy" label, both sides say. Ms. Bocchese says "many don't want their brand tied to China" for image reasons.

Stitch Like an Egyptian

Valentino didn't have such preconceptions when, at the end of 2002, it received a call from Cairo-based A-Arafa Group SAE. Italian textile giant Marzotto had just acquired the Valentino label and was looking to cut costs. Valentino already produced some menswear in Eastern Europe. In 2004, the hourly labor cost of a textile worker in Italy was $18.63 compared with 88 cents in Egypt, according to U.S. management consultant Werner International Inc.

The Egyptian company had recently signed a contract to buy technical know-how from a menswear producer, based in the northern Italian city of Vicenza. As part of the contract, A-Arafa received patterns and designs. The Italian company, Nervesa Uomo SpA, sent several technicians to A-Arafa's factory in Cairo and allowed 30 Egyptian staffers to spend five months at its facilities. A-Arafa commissioned an Egyptian television crew to film every step of the tailoring process from cutting fabric to stitching buttons. The crew made 140 videotapes.

In 2003, after A-Arafa successfully negotiated a trial run making two dozen suits, Valentino awarded it a contract. At the beginning of this year, the factory began making its first batch of Valentino suits. A second load of 12,000 suits -- which will retail at about $1,300 -- are now being shipped for the 2006 spring/summer season.

Valentino still designs its products in Italy and keeps strict control over the Egyptian assembly line. It makes some parts of the suit in Italy, such as the shoulder pad and the breastplate. Valentino executives say they are pleased with the quality, though they acknowledge that about 3% of suits have some faults and are sent back. Valentino says it doesn't have a comparative figure for suits made in Italy.

At the A-Arafa factory, managers hadn't been told that the "Made in Egypt" labels are pulled off after the suits are shipped to Italy.

"It makes me sad that they take off the tags," said the factory's 39-year-old product manager, Yaser Husien Nada, when informed of the procedure. "But I am very happy to be making products for Europeans."
 
Thanks for the article, Caffeine.

Comments like that sure aren't going to help Patrizio get his business out of massive debt.

I, for one, certainly care where he makes his shoes, especially when he's charging $500 for them.

But, that's just me... :wink:

As for the other... I think that we all knew it was happening, we just didn't want to have to face it (or pay for it!)

John
 
muchas gracias

i longed for this day to come and i am glad it is coming wen i am still young. everything dont have to be made in italy and i am glad they are seeing this. that if people are trained properly and good quality control is maintained the products will ALWAYS BE GOOD
as far as i am concerned, if the garments are not made in an atelier supervised by the designer him/herself (richard tyler/alaia) it doesnt matter anymore
 
thanks a lot for posting!
IMO, this was only a matter of time, and not really surprising move at all. it's all about cutting costs these days, and competition from zara or h&m of course took a toll on design houses as well.....
personally, I guess as long as the clothes are designed in a way that justifies the price, i probably won't be concerned about where they were made.
 
"What do you care where I make my shoes?" says Prada Group NV Chief Executive Patrizio Bertelli. Where local laws permit, Mr. Bertelli says he'd prefer to insert a "Made by Prada" tag in his products. In addition to sewing the upper part of some shoes in Slovenia, Prada makes pieces for some of its handbags in Turkey.

I care, because you are not lowering your prices, but increasing your profit margins - you filthy greedy bastard.

WSJ, being a capitalist agent, of course barely brushes on the question of decreasing the profit margins and passing the savings to a consumer, and tactfully avoids sweatship labor issue altogether.

It was an entertaining read, nonetheless. Thanks Caffeine :flower:
 
HERE WE GO AGAIN
PART 1
China: Catastrophe for creativity or luxury opportunity?


spacer.gif

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 2005
null.gif

null.gif

null.gif

MILAN On Wednesday, Italian fashion tries to answer the burning question about the upcoming generation. "Who's Next?" - a show of three finalists out of 300 nationwide sweep - aims to nurture the future.
It is, above all, an attempt to support creativity at a time when the "Made in Italy" era is literally going out of fashion.
Even as the new talents take to the runway, under the auspices of Franca Sozzani, editor of French Vogue and of Rome's Alta Moda organization, yet another small Italian company will be going out of business.
The threat of China has become a scourge in this country which has been the manufacturing hub of European design for 30 years - and consequently the greatest supporter of emerging talent.
But the happy days of the Italian industrial colossus buttressing innovative fashion are over - just at the moment when creativity, know-how and deeply felt luxury are the only weapons to fight the onslaught of the Chinese.
Domenico Dolce and Stefano Gabbana celebrate this season the 20th anniversary of the vibrant company they founded from scratch, yet fashion folk are aware that this is the last of Italy's titans. Since they emerged, building up first a designer line, then an affordable range, with myriad accessories and ancillary products, there has been no one in Italy to challenge them.
The emergence of China as a manufacturing force has had much the same trajectory as a start-up designer company: a small nibble at the market, followed by a solid business and increasing export success. But the growth of China since the global trade regulations were lifted in January has become colossal, causing such a worldwide flood of shirts, pants, underwear, socks and shoes that the European Union finally took action. This month's crisis meetings, blocking an excess of Chinese exports to Europe, has led to so-called "bra wars," resulting in a shortage of low-cost underwear on the European market and pictures of containers of clothing banked up at ports.
What is the connection between Chinese-manufactured T-shirts and the high fashion on the Milan runways? Ultra-cheap clothes, welcomed by consumers and retailers, undermine the fashion manufacturers, already challenged by the arrival of fast-fashion chains such as H&M and Zara, whose products are often also made in the Far East. As Li Edelkoort, the respected fashion forecaster, warns, the Chinese whirlwind will flatten the fashion world as we know it and change radically its familiar landscape.
"I am afraid that we are seeing the genocide of the culture of textiles," says Edelkoort. "Everyone is putting eggs in one basket - China - and that is potentially devastating for our cultural heritage."
"We are already taking away work from Morocco, Turkey and Greece, betraying our former partners."
"The day a T-shirt is cheaper than a croissant, we are arriving at indecent prices," she continues. "We know what goes into making a croissant, but when you bring the price of clothes down so dramatically, all other things like newspapers and coffee seem overvalued. It becomes a moral problem."
Edelkoort's concern is not so much with clothing - since "we already know that the Far East copies Western design" - but with textiles.
"The day we radically want to renew fabrics, we will need traditional skills," she says.
"And people don't realize that if we don't get textile ideas out of Italy, Spain and maybe Scotland and Ireland, Asia is not ready to pick up the culture."

Others see a less apocalyptic scenario, believing that small Italian companies have the ability to be flexible.

Raffaello Napoleone, chief executive of Florence's Pitti Imagine exhibitions, even sees a ray of hope for Europe in its attempt to tame the Chinese dragon.
 
China: Catastrophe for creativity or luxury opportunity?

By Suzy Menkes International Herald Tribune
spacer.gif

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 2005
null.gif

null.gif

null.gif

"The industrial system of the south of Europe (Italy included) is changing structurally, becoming more aggressive and difficult to govern," Napoleone says. "At the same time, it is a big opportunity for the companies of the textile and apparel industry. The Italian industry is made of small companies and this gives them the opportunity to react with agility and intervene speedily, thinking over and updating the industrial districts. Beside this, the countries overlooking the Mediterranean offer an excellent opportunity in terms of competitiveness against China."
China as a consumer also offers hope on the horizon. Ever since the nation swapped Mao jackets for designer sunglasses, it has been perceived as an opportunity by Italy's luxury companies - particularly those such as Ermenegildo Zegna or Salvatore Ferragamo, which entered the country in 1991 and 1992 respectively and which have already gained brand recognition. Vogue China, which was launched in Milan on Monday, is about to hit the stands in Shanghai.
"China is - and will be - an opportunity for many other brands," says Ferruccio Ferragamo, the company's chief executive. Ferragamo will celebrate next month a decade in Beijing, where it has refurbished its store.
"Thanks to an early start, we are in good position - and we have to make sure we maintain it," says Ferragamo. "At the top end of the market, they appreciate especially things that are not made in China. And we are 100 percent made in Italy."
Armando Branchini, the secretary general of the Altagamma clothing federation and also an economist and university professor in Milan, says that how China is perceived depends on the "very articulated and segmented" Italian industry on its different levels.
"Size matters," Branchini says, referring to the situation of a luxury company with a heritage and reputation versus the small and unknown producer.
"In very short time, the Chinese consumers have become capable of understanding real values," Branchini says, citing the top tier of 10 million thirty-somethings with money to spend and "a second tier of 90 million, much younger and not as rich, but some of them will become a market."
On the debit side are the difficulties of exporting, when "if you don't have any mythical value, you aren't allowed to sell to the entire China market." And the impossibility of finding a business partnership if there is no name recognition in other key markets: Japan, Hong Kong and South Korea.
Napoleone even strikes a note of caution about the euphoria over China as luxury's new Promised Land.
"We have to remember that today only 2.7 percent of the Chinese earns $12,000 and 21 percent of the population has an income between $6,000 and $12,000," Napoleone says. "Sure these are 350 million people, but a billion Chinese suffer serious health and alimentation problems with an income of less than $2,000. This means that it will certainly take a lot of time before China resolves its profound contradictions."
The counterfeit problem adds to the general difficulties. Ferragamo says that most of the world's fakes now come from China or other Asian countries where labor costs are low.
"Fakes are so easy that they grow and grow - and the margins are astronomical," Ferragamo says.
Matteo Marzotto calls counterfeit "a dirty business" and says that he has issues with China not "playing fair" in terms of giving any support to its workers, compared to the Italian concern for social services, welfare and quality of life, as well as pollution control.
Marzotto, whose family business is in fashion (including Hugo Boss and Valentino) and textiles (which are still one third of its business), encapsulates the tug-of-love in many traditional made-in-Italy companies.
"For me, it's a personal drama. I grew up in a little village where my parents' home was identified with Marzotto," says the young Valentino executive, who has had to share the family decision over the last two years to survive by transferring manufacturing to Lithuania and the Czech Republic, thus shuttering 1,500 Italian jobs.
"How can we manage China as an opportunity?" asks Marzotto, explaining that the "long, long history" of Valentino in China has led to another problem: the Chinese fashion pretenders called "Rudolf Valentino or "Valentyna".
"China is a big opportunity only if they work clearly and play a fair game," Marzotto says. "They have one-tenth of our labor costs and in Italy it costs 8,000 just to establish a company. It is not a matter of open markets. Everyone has to play with some rules. To remain competitive, we need a little bit of control."
Marzotto believes that Italian fashion may have a more subtle and secret weapon than slapping taxes on cheap imports: its heritage and its potential for creativity.
"Prices cannot be the only issue," he says. "There is also the capacity of Italy to invent something new. When you are talking about knitting yarns, you cannot invent too much. But Italy has its archaeology and historical heritage, even if it has not reserves underground in oil or mining."
Ferragamo also hopes that Italy can offer intangible plus factors both in selling and manufacturing.
"Everyone is scared about China," he says. "Potentially we can all have the same machines. But Italians have feeling and perception that you don't suddenly acquire. There is a tradition here that I hope will be preserved, from one worker to another and from father to son, that the Chinese cannot suddenly implement."
Ferragamo believes that even the first post-Mao generation of Chinese consumers is already responsive to myth and mystique.
"The Chinese consumers are very quick in understanding," he says. "They have a deep culture and are much better than five years ago. In very short time, the Chinese consumers have become capable of understanding real values."
What about a nightmare scenario that the Chinese suppliers, equipped with state-of-the-art machinery, will rebuild their smashed cultural heritage - and draw on it to create garments with the intangible plus factor?
Edelkoort believes that already the downward price spiral is leading to disaster. She believes that Europe will abandon a centuries-old heritage and that the industry will end up with bland clothing, limited varieties of textiles and basic prints.
But Napoleone is more positive.
"I do not believe that in the future there will a sole and dominant culture," he says. "We will be confronted with different strong cultures which will stay in competition, everyone with its own prevailing identity."


MILAN On Wednesday, Italian fashion tries to answer the burning question about the upcoming generation. "Who's Next?" - a show of three finalists out of 300 nationwide sweep - aims to nurture the future.
It is, above all, an attempt to support creativity at a time when the "Made in Italy" era is literally going out of fashion.
Even as the new talents take to the runway, under the auspices of Franca Sozzani, editor of French Vogue and of Rome's Alta Moda organization, yet another small Italian company will be going out of business.
The threat of China has become a scourge in this country which has been the manufacturing hub of European design for 30 years - and consequently the greatest supporter of emerging talent.
But the happy days of the Italian industrial colossus buttressing innovative fashion are over - just at the moment when creativity, know-how and deeply felt luxury are the only weapons to fight the onslaught of the Chinese.
Domenico Dolce and Stefano Gabbana celebrate this season the 20th anniversary of the vibrant company they founded from scratch, yet fashion folk are aware that this is the last of Italy's titans. Since they emerged, building up first a designer line, then an affordable range, with myriad accessories and ancillary products, there has been no one in Italy to challenge them.
The emergence of China as a manufacturing force has had much the same trajectory as a start-up designer company: a small nibble at the market, followed by a solid business and increasing export success. But the growth of China since the global trade regulations were lifted in January has become colossal, causing such a worldwide flood of shirts, pants, underwear, socks and shoes that the European Union finally took action. This month's crisis meetings, blocking an excess of Chinese exports to Europe, has led to so-called "bra wars," resulting in a shortage of low-cost underwear on the European market and pictures of containers of clothing banked up at ports.
What is the connection between Chinese-manufactured T-shirts and the high fashion on the Milan runways? Ultra-cheap clothes, welcomed by consumers and retailers, undermine the fashion manufacturers, already challenged by the arrival of fast-fashion chains such as H&M and Zara, whose products are often also made in the Far East. As Li Edelkoort, the respected fashion forecaster, warns, the Chinese whirlwind will flatten the fashion world as we know it and change radically its familiar landscape.
"I am afraid that we are seeing the genocide of the culture of textiles," says Edelkoort. "Everyone is pu
 
faust said:
I care, because you are not lowering your prices, but increasing your profit margins - you filthy greedy bastard.

well said!:lol:

its depressing to have ones suspicions confirmed:(
 
There are two questions here:
1. Do consumers care where the luxury goods are produced?
2. Should the luxury companies reduce their price?
The answer to the first question is personal. I don't care, but I believe most of the people do look at the tags.
the second question is more like an economics question though. I'll think it through before I make my conclusion :D
 
Caffeine said:
There are two questions here:
1. Do consumers care where the luxury goods are produced?
2. Should the luxury companies reduce their price?
The answer to the first question is personal. I don't care, but I believe most of the people do look at the tags.
the second question is more like an economics question though. I'll think it through before I make my conclusion :D

To me 1 is inevitably tied to 2, so yes, in a way I care. If it costs Bertelli $50 instead of $100 to make shoes in China, I want those savings passed on to me.

Ann Demeulemeester and Dries van Noten seems to be doing that. This season's Polish-made Ann Demeulemeester shirts with fairly complex cuts and details retail for $220 - that's a pretty damn good price.
Same goes for Dries - where else can you see a complicatingly hand-embroidered shirt for $325 with today's prices?


From a psychological point of view I care much less, but I still have a certain feeling about European traditional artisanship. Not to say that there is no such tradition in China - a culture so ancient and rich most definitely has one. Shanghai Tang goods for example are very well made from what I've seen.
 
Things that are made in China do not have to be low quality, but I think designer/luxury consumers are slightly suspicious about "made in China" tags. It's true that we've already seen stuff made in Eastern Europe, Turkey, Tunisia and so on without any real reaction, so maybe a move to China will go as smoothly? I don't think it will go as unnoticed though, because it's on such a large scale. At least that's the impression I have.

And if companies don't keep a tight quality control, this could really come back and bite them in the a**es...
 
Caffeine said:
There are two questions here:
1. Do consumers care where the luxury goods are produced?
2. Should the luxury companies reduce their price?
The answer to the first question is personal. I don't care, but I believe most of the people do look at the tags.
the second question is more like an economics question though. I'll think it through before I make my conclusion :D

As an economics question:

The most allocatively and productively efficient system is PC. Firms in PC do not have ANY profit margin above normal profit. The fact that luxury companies are able to not lower their prices shows that they are inefficient and exploit monopoly power (because they do have a profit margin).

Yada...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
PrinceOfCats said:
As an economics question:

The most allocatively and productively efficient system is PC. Firms in PC do not have ANY profit margin. The fact that luxury companies are able to not lower their prices shows that they are inefficient and exploit monopoly power.

Yada...

At the same time, luxury good is so different from PCs because they differentiate the products so much. It is a diminishing return to the consumers, but even when there is only one better stitch on a Dolce shirt made in Italy than the one made in China, some people will like to pay $500 more. it's really not a easy question...
 
Caffeine said:
At the same time, luxury good is so different from PCs because they differentiate the products so much. It is a diminishing return to the consumers, but even when there is only one better stitch on a Dolce shirt made in Italy than the one made in China, some people will like to pay $500 more. it's really not a easy question...

The absence of a homogenous product, and the fact that people are willing to pay ridiculous prices (advertising, Veblen goods etc) doesn't change what Prada should do to be efficient.
 
Zamb, thanks for posting that article! This is how I look at the competition and the trade issue although I don't think my Eurpoean friends will like it (let me say it anyway:smile: :(
China's goods used to be expensive thousand and hundreds of years ago when it was a strong country. Remember the silk road? European businessmen came to China to purchase the expensive silk. They were not happy;and then in 1840 eight European countries invaded China and robbed tons of valuable art pieces, gold, etc. China went down because of the war and the corrupt governments.
China is on the way coming back right now, but the cost in this country is so low that it threatens the European countries. The EU is not happy again. What they are doing now is to increase tariff and set quota and give the Chinese government pressure year after year. Chinese shoe makers' warehouses were burned in Spain recently because they did business better than the local companies. After reading all those articles talking about how dangerous China is, you have to wonder why the media keeps to be negative. The key is to stop blaming the low cost in China (it was partially cost by the European countries years ago), but to find the competitive advantage in the European countries.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Caffeine said:
Zamb, thanks for posting that article! This is how I look at the competition and the trade issue although I don't think my Eurpoean friends will like it (let me say it anyway:smile: :(
China's goods used to be expensive thousand and hundreds of years ago when it was a strong country. Remember the silk road? European businessmen came to China to purchase the expensive silk. They were not happy;and then in 1840 eight European countries invaded China and robbed tons of valuable art pieces, gold, etc. China went down because of the war and the corrupt governments.
China is on the way coming back right now, but the cost in this country is so low that it threatens the European countries. The EU is not happy again. What they are doing now is to increase tariff and set quota and give the Chinese government pressure year after year. Chinese shoe makers' warehouses were burned in Spain recently because they did business better than the local companies. After reading all those articles talking about how dangerous China is, you have to wonder why the media keeps to be negative. The key is to stop blaming the low cost in China (it was partially cost by the European countries years ago), but to find the competitive advantage in the European countries.

What's not to like? Everything you said is true. I think the biggest advantage Europe has left is exactly the feeling of luxury and design. That is their competitive advantage. That's why the Intellectual Property laws are the hottest topic right now.
 
there is more to the article i will post later if someonce can go to the tribune and do it that would be good. I am in a hurry so i have to leave,.



bye.thanks
 
Yes, Caffeine and faust: it's all too true.

You know the old saying: When life hands you lemons...

Of course this transition is painful in some ways for a lot of people, but sometimes you can't resist change. I know there are quotas and so on in the EU, and a little bit of protectionism might be a good thing sometimes, but it's really not that smart to throw up the walls and isolate yourself.
 
Btw, this is a bit interesting... "Thanks to an early start, we are in good position - and we have to make sure we maintain it," says Ferragamo. "At the top end of the market, they appreciate especially things that are not made in China. And we are 100 percent made in Italy."

Sooo, European luxury companies are breaking into the Chinese market because they are European luxury labels, sort of. But what happens when they move the production there, will they be able to retain that "European luxury" image when they are in fact made locally? Doesn't this diminish the aura of exclusivity, make it more common? Especially to new groups of customers who may not have an established, deep relationship to the labels?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum Statistics

Threads
212,550
Messages
15,188,758
Members
86,440
Latest member
Hannafransson
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"
<-- Admiral -->