Androgyny In Fashion (Black Perspective)

[fenty]

As the seasons pass by and we are starting to become more progressive and move towards genderless styling, I am starting to notice more male (presenting) models walking in womenswear showcases, but they're all white (e.g,. Louis Vuitton SS23/FW23, Courrèges FW23, Acne Studios SS23/FW23) . Here goes my question, does fashion only accept androgyny and deem it acceptable when you're visibly caucasian? It could honestly be something unintentional or harmless with the castings and yall can say I am reaching, but at some point its going to be a conscious move that the designer or casting director(s) decided to play on.

Would love to hear your thoughts !

 

[LadyJunon]

I don't feel that you're reaching at all. In my eyes, it depends on whether the show is a womenswear show with one male model like Louis Vuitton or a truly co-ed show like Acne.

Diversity can't exist with one person, but if all 8 of Acne's men were of one race (they weren't), then I'd be asking questions less on their association with whiteness and androgyny, but on their casting direction (and perhaps intelligence) overall.

Then you also have brands that are more directly tailored to queer audiences like LdSS, Vaquera, Weinsanto and Luar, where androgyny and the diversity within it can take more of a center stage.

 

[mepps]

We are not becoming more progressive. Faux diversity to tick off boxes, and keep broke social media mobs from targeting your business, is not progressive.
There are certain fashion Houses where the casting seems organic, fluid, and natural. There are others where you know the designer is gritting his teeth.
Secondly, androgyny and genderless styling are not really coming from the same place, socially or politically. They can intersect tho.

 

[fenty]

Thanks to LadyJunon for correcting me about Acne! What really sparked my thought & question was seeing the recent LV shows and seeing how white male models got to exclusively work in womenswear maybe it was NG's idea or not but im really curious about how that came to be.

 

[Lola701]

Thanks to LadyJunon for correcting me about Acne! What really sparked my thought & question was seeing the recent LV shows and seeing how white male models got to exclusively work in womenswear maybe it was NG's idea or not but im really curious about how that came to be.

For Nicolas, I think it that beyond the idea of having person that he finds interesting because they fits his aesthetic (His Work for Vuitton is playing less with the elements of femininity than it was in the early days), it also opens his womenswear to men. A lot of men (mostly in Asia) are buying his clothes and his sneakers. There are whispers that he wanted to do menswear so it’s surely the more organic way to show clothes that works for men and women without compromising the menswear department.

But I think the question of androgyny is complicated in fashion from a black perspective because it’s a question of minority within minority.
And it’s a small phenomenon. It’s not something that is taking the industry by storm. Racial diversity is finally the norm (even if I think a lot more effort needs to be made in for example representation on global markets) but I always feel like it’s always difficult with others diverses groups that are within those groups. It’s all a matter of personal appreciation or aesthetic of a designer, a brand or a casting director.

 

[Cocteau Stone]

Strangely, I think truer representations of any form of androgyny are going to take a while to really feel natural in fashion at the moment without them coming across as a novel styling or casting cue, even though it is something that has been done rather intuitively decades before.

We're still going through the motions of maintaining racial diversity and expanding on body diversity in an organic way. It's an issue with not just the designers, but with the conglomerates/suits, advertisers, modeling agencies, casting directors, stylists, hair/MUAs etc. because if one or multiple aren't convinced/"comfortable" with it, it shows. Then there's those where the "diversity" feels like a sad mockery due to the lack of skill (i.e. Harris Reed at Nina Ricci).

I think those that have to shout their "diversity" from the roof tops are pandering, and as @mepps says, it makes us feel like we're not becoming more progressive. Feels rather gauche actually.

 

[elene3]

amm , I can't help but share a concern that has been on my mind.
Is the acceptance of androgyny and genderless fashion only extended to those who fit a certain racial profile? While it's true that some instances might be unintentional, it's crucial for us to examine the underlying reasons behind these casting choices.

 

[kristian27]

As the seasons pass by and we are starting to become more progressive and move towards genderless styling, I am starting to notice more male (presenting) models walking in womenswear showcases, but they're all white (e.g,. Louis Vuitton SS23/FW23, Courrèges FW23, Acne Studios SS23/FW23) . Here goes my question, does fashion only accept androgyny and deem it acceptable when you're visibly caucasian? It could honestly be something unintentional or harmless with the castings and yall can say I am reaching, but at some point its going to be a conscious move that the designer or casting director(s) decided to play on.

Would love to hear your thoughts !

Your observation raises an important and valid point about representation and inclusivity in the fashion industry. The fashion industry has indeed made progress in embracing androgyny and genderless styling, which is a positive step toward breaking down traditional gender norms in fashion. However, your concern about the lack of diversity in this representation is well-founded.

It's crucial to recognize that fashion, like many industries, still has work to do when it comes to addressing issues of racial inclusivity and equity. While androgyny and genderless fashion are becoming more mainstream, it's disappointing to see that this trend often predominantly features white male-presenting models.

This lack of diversity in genderless fashion can reflect systemic biases within the industry, from casting decisions to the broader fashion culture. It may not always be a conscious or intentional move on the part of designers or casting directors, but it does highlight the need for more awareness and proactive efforts to ensure representation is inclusive of people of all racial backgrounds.

Fashion has the power to influence and shape societal norms, so it's essential for the industry to be more conscious of these issues and actively work toward inclusivity. This includes diversifying not only the models on the runway but also the creative teams, designers, and decision-makers behind the scenes.

Your question and observation serve as a reminder that while progress is being made, there is still much work to be done in making the fashion industry more representative and equitable for all individuals, regardless of their race or ethnicity. It's important to continue discussing these issues and holding the industry accountable for positive change.

 

[Constructionist]

Your observation raises an important and valid point about representation and inclusivity in the fashion industry. The fashion industry has indeed made progress in embracing androgyny and genderless styling, which is a positive step toward breaking down traditional gender norms in fashion. However, your concern about the lack of diversity in this representation is well-founded.

It's crucial to recognize that fashion, like many industries, still has work to do when it comes to addressing issues of racial inclusivity and equity. While androgyny and genderless fashion are becoming more mainstream, it's disappointing to see that this trend often predominantly features white male-presenting models.

This lack of diversity in genderless fashion can reflect systemic biases within the industry, from casting decisions to the broader fashion culture. It may not always be a conscious or intentional move on the part of designers or casting directors, but it does highlight the need for more awareness and proactive efforts to ensure representation is inclusive of people of all racial backgrounds.

Fashion has the power to influence and shape societal norms, so it's essential for the industry to be more conscious of these issues and actively work toward inclusivity. This includes diversifying not only the models on the runway but also the creative teams, designers, and decision-makers behind the scenes.

Your question and observation serve as a reminder that while progress is being made, there is still much work to be done in making the fashion industry more representative and equitable for all individuals, regardless of their race or ethnicity. It's important to continue discussing these issues and holding the industry accountable for positive change.

Is this from chatgpt?

It seems very sanitized, as if one is giving a professional speech as opposed to a personal opinion.

 

[MulletProof]

^ 100%.. I thought for a split second that this person may have been in an extremely hostile corporate environment for too long (and somehow can't switch it off for the internet), so the 'you bring up a GREAT point' opener immediately got me scanning for the hidden 'f*ck you' somewhere in the third or fourth paragraph.

To answer the question of the thread (does fashion only accept androgyny and deem it acceptable when you're visibly caucasian?)-: there are exceptions but generally yes. Fashion and pure/altruistic intentions are polar opposites so anything that seemingly defies the norm or bends the rules for some alleged improvement.. that's quickly, if not immediately, compromised by the notion of a platform (literally a platform, a show) and the mouth-watering, oh-so tempting possibility to trade a modest proposition in womenswear that may or may not mean something for women, for (aided by the 'no criticism allowed!' era) the broadcast of a more explicitly personal fantasy where you are the protagonist and you have the people that play you, and those who assist you in bringing out the best out of this fantasy. The people that play you do look a little bit like you, but they're braver in their sartorial choices, physically idealised (what you could've looked like with more genetic luck), and free from all the things that prevent you from living this 'main character' fantasy in real life. The majority of designers are men. So watch how the introduction of more men in womenswear and more female models in menswear is often to exclusively facilitate androgyny where only men are the participants and women subscribe to an extra, almost cartoonesque or even porn-influenced level of femininity to pave the path and visually moderate the male models' dive into androgyny. In other words, make her extra ridiculous so he can look less socially ridiculous. In a similar way, these men do tend to comply with a more 'precise' look a black man cannot fully embody. You'd think an Asian model would then be the default choice (there's no shortage of vampire-looking Japanese men in my experience lol) but unsurprisingly, that's also not common. So yeah, not reaching. I usually just go to the finale and see what the designer looks and dresses like. That tells you enough..