I actually do like Birkins, and the way they look, how many people will know that it's a Birkin anyway? and a birkin is like buying a top of range diamonds as opposed to plain glass(to impress people). Bad analogy but, it works
Cost of Production
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PrinceOfCats
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Whatever spin/pricetag you want to put on it you can't really escape the fact that a Birkin is essentially a dead cow though, not a diamond.
so true PrinceOfCats said:
Was just saying that the Birkin was the Diamond (as opposed to the Swarovski) of the bag world, and it is understated, so not many people will know as you walk down the street, what you are holding immediatley, if at all.
PrinceOfCats
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Lil Kim, mass and crass incarnate, the anthropomorhpic personification of crass, in fact probably the zeitgeist of crassismo, carries a Birkin...That somewhat scuppers the whole 'exclusive, elusive, understated' thing as I see it.
PrinceOfCats
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softgrey said:and...
a diamond is just a piece of pressurized coal...
basically a ROCK...
so???....
Everything was a piece of pressurized coal at some point along the line, however a Birkin was a dead cow quite recently.
PrinceOfCats
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Comparing it with a diamond isn't very useful...
I have lots of respect for the Birkin because it is the one famous luxury bag that I can think of that is luxurious enough that it can look totally plain to the "non-initiated" without being pretentious. Yes, sometimes the people who carry them can be... but the bag itself is pleasantly low-key. I'm talking about the regular leather bag, not the exotic ostrich, croc, etc.
However, to bring it all back on topic to cost of production, while I respect Hermes and its work... there has never really been a question of value for money or a 300% markup formula or anything like that. As some others have said, it has ALWAYS been setting the bar so high in order to create an "aura" about itself.
This is especially true for its non-accessory items, which are outsourced to factories and companies throughout Europe. Hermes takes the products made by these companies, adds a label, and doubles (or triples!) the price. For example, take the Hermes "Quick" sneakers, which are produced by Santoni (an Italian shoemaker). Santoni makes an almost identical model to the Quick under its own label (called the Tropez), only there isn't a large "H" stitched onto the side. The Santoni model costs about $290-$300 while the Quick is $780-$900.
So, while I find this "cost of production" thread really interesting, I think it only drives home the fact that there is NO real correlation between the cost of production and the final retail price, at least with larger companies. It is all what they think that you'll pay.
John
However, to bring it all back on topic to cost of production, while I respect Hermes and its work... there has never really been a question of value for money or a 300% markup formula or anything like that. As some others have said, it has ALWAYS been setting the bar so high in order to create an "aura" about itself.
This is especially true for its non-accessory items, which are outsourced to factories and companies throughout Europe. Hermes takes the products made by these companies, adds a label, and doubles (or triples!) the price. For example, take the Hermes "Quick" sneakers, which are produced by Santoni (an Italian shoemaker). Santoni makes an almost identical model to the Quick under its own label (called the Tropez), only there isn't a large "H" stitched onto the side. The Santoni model costs about $290-$300 while the Quick is $780-$900.
So, while I find this "cost of production" thread really interesting, I think it only drives home the fact that there is NO real correlation between the cost of production and the final retail price, at least with larger companies. It is all what they think that you'll pay.
John
rach2jlc said:
Absolutely!
I'm in love with a tulip-collar felted jersey jacket right now, I got it in black. The store didn't have it in my size, so the designers made it. Now I'm thinking I should get it in a couple of more colours... And the thing is, this jacket is made in Germany and it's only 245 €! I think it's a fair price considering the workmanship involved; since it's felted you can simply cut the fabric... It's not too complicated to make.
But if this was Gucci it'd be at least double the price.
http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26446
But it looks better in person... Love the felted jerseys, the rest of their stuff is just not interesting IMO.
But it looks better in person... Love the felted jerseys, the rest of their stuff is just not interesting IMO.
buying from 'indie' labels and smaller brands will always keep consumer much 'closer' to 'real' prices, much more when those labels have control of their retail prices.
as for the approximate X3 retail price (on the wholesale price), thats really the basic rule in retail, nothing changes that
as for the approximate X3 retail price (on the wholesale price), thats really the basic rule in retail, nothing changes that
adorefaith
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i am so fascinated by all of this...
i wish i understood more easily...
so a few comments/questions....
...
assuming we want quality...
fairness....ethical production & purchase...
good design, construction, etc...
and we'd also like to stay 'closer' to that 'real' price...
how do we learn what is quality...
good design, quality, construction etc...
when it doesnt come along with 'hype' or a big name brand....
and isnt attached to a multi national luxury company...??...
i would love to be one who could spot a sweater....or a dress..
or even a pair of jeans...
from an 'indie' designer... with a more realistic price..
and be able to recognize the quality.....compare it to a more hyped, big name brand.... realize the quality and time spent is equal, if not even more superior.... and then be able to purchase the item...
but how does one go about learning this?....
what is going on with clothing at places like the gap...
old navy....
how are they constructing, manufacturing and selling clothing that looks, to the untrained eye, just like a lot of other things out there.. at least when it comes to tees and jeans.... but for a tiny, tiny fraction of the price..??...
what is worth it, to spend money on...?
how do i know when a fairly hefty price tag is reasonable....or at least worth it in terms of quality and ethics...
or when $6 for a t0shirt is OK??....
there's just so much to learn....
i wish i understood more easily...
so a few comments/questions....
...assuming we want quality...
fairness....ethical production & purchase...
good design, construction, etc...
and we'd also like to stay 'closer' to that 'real' price...
how do we learn what is quality...
good design, quality, construction etc...
when it doesnt come along with 'hype' or a big name brand....
and isnt attached to a multi national luxury company...??...
i would love to be one who could spot a sweater....or a dress..
or even a pair of jeans...
from an 'indie' designer... with a more realistic price..
and be able to recognize the quality.....compare it to a more hyped, big name brand.... realize the quality and time spent is equal, if not even more superior.... and then be able to purchase the item...
but how does one go about learning this?....
what is going on with clothing at places like the gap...
old navy....
how are they constructing, manufacturing and selling clothing that looks, to the untrained eye, just like a lot of other things out there.. at least when it comes to tees and jeans.... but for a tiny, tiny fraction of the price..??...
what is worth it, to spend money on...?
how do i know when a fairly hefty price tag is reasonable....or at least worth it in terms of quality and ethics...
or when $6 for a t0shirt is OK??....
there's just so much to learn....
Delurking because this thread is fascinating...
Linking the value of an item to the cost of production harks back to Marxist economic theory and, I think, is similarly flawed - certain garments, such as Marilyn Monroe's dresses, and Dorothy's shoes, have a value which has absolutely nothing to do with how much they cost to produce or the amount of skill involved in their production. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Still, to trot out the old line that the value of an item is what people are willing to pay for it doesn't quite fit for fashion -because unlike the seller trying to sell crops, or machine parts, the value of the item is in a large way defined by who have them. Exclusivity and brand image need to be maintained. If you run a lemonade stand your objective is to make as much profit as possible, thus sell as much lemonade as possible, to anyone and everyone who wants it -which is perhaps the way that H&M works, but doesn't work for Birkins.
One could argue that, as prices increase, the knowledge of their customers increases, and thus exclusivity of appeal is created, with only those 'in the know' willing to spend the prices asked for. At the bottom you have people, like my grandmother, who thinks that spending £20 on a skirt is criminal. Then, other, smaller circles -people who will drop £100 on one piece, then people who will buy a £1000 bag. Theoretically, you get to a top circle of exclusivity, people who 'get' it enough to fork out £20000 for an artfully remodelled cow. Not to say that the top circle are more objectively right than the bottom circle -just to say that in the insular world of fashion people can be judged against fashion canon.
So, immense mark-ups are the price we pay for buying into the ideas of fashion, and the reward we get is feeling like an insider. The value of an item isn't defined by what people will pay for it, but by what certain people will pay for it -and this value is dependent on the fact that most people, who aren't the select few 'in the know' would not spend more on a handbag than on a car.
It's not so much about actually spending the money -I'm a student, I can barely afford the air I breathe -it's more about being able to describe £200 Louboutins as a 'bargain' when I begrudge the £1.75 I spend on a sandwich ... it's just a different concept of 'value'.
Linking the value of an item to the cost of production harks back to Marxist economic theory and, I think, is similarly flawed - certain garments, such as Marilyn Monroe's dresses, and Dorothy's shoes, have a value which has absolutely nothing to do with how much they cost to produce or the amount of skill involved in their production. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Still, to trot out the old line that the value of an item is what people are willing to pay for it doesn't quite fit for fashion -because unlike the seller trying to sell crops, or machine parts, the value of the item is in a large way defined by who have them. Exclusivity and brand image need to be maintained. If you run a lemonade stand your objective is to make as much profit as possible, thus sell as much lemonade as possible, to anyone and everyone who wants it -which is perhaps the way that H&M works, but doesn't work for Birkins.
One could argue that, as prices increase, the knowledge of their customers increases, and thus exclusivity of appeal is created, with only those 'in the know' willing to spend the prices asked for. At the bottom you have people, like my grandmother, who thinks that spending £20 on a skirt is criminal. Then, other, smaller circles -people who will drop £100 on one piece, then people who will buy a £1000 bag. Theoretically, you get to a top circle of exclusivity, people who 'get' it enough to fork out £20000 for an artfully remodelled cow. Not to say that the top circle are more objectively right than the bottom circle -just to say that in the insular world of fashion people can be judged against fashion canon.
So, immense mark-ups are the price we pay for buying into the ideas of fashion, and the reward we get is feeling like an insider. The value of an item isn't defined by what people will pay for it, but by what certain people will pay for it -and this value is dependent on the fact that most people, who aren't the select few 'in the know' would not spend more on a handbag than on a car.
It's not so much about actually spending the money -I'm a student, I can barely afford the air I breathe -it's more about being able to describe £200 Louboutins as a 'bargain' when I begrudge the £1.75 I spend on a sandwich
... it's just a different concept of 'value'.
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