Fashion Journalism

vavavinny,

if you have had a fashion column in your college newspaper then why don't you consider applying for internships at magazines to actually get experience rather than taking courses after college?

i actually did the PG cert in fashion & lifestyle journalism at london college of fashion. really great course & i loved being abroad but ultimately, it's all about internships & work experience when it comes to getting a job. also, getting work experience/internships at british/european glossies are totally different than in the us. i had an internship in london & it was only for a few weeks rather than a few months. plus usually they want you full time with no pay rather than the US, where they would be happy to give you credit or a stipend.

if you have any more questions, feel free to message me. :flower:
 
vavavinny,

if you have had a fashion column in your college newspaper then why don't you consider applying for internships at magazines to actually get experience rather than taking courses after college?

i actually did the PG cert in fashion & lifestyle journalism at london college of fashion. really great course & i loved being abroad but ultimately, it's all about internships & work experience when it comes to getting a job. also, getting work experience/internships at british/european glossies are totally different than in the us. i had an internship in london & it was only for a few weeks rather than a few months. plus usually they want you full time with no pay rather than the US, where they would be happy to give you credit or a stipend.

if you have any more questions, feel free to message me. :flower:


Maganda, thank you so much for your input :smile:!

I am going to further take courses because I really need to put myself in a setting where the types of magazines I want to work for are located. I am currently living in a small city in Ohio, DEFINITELY not a fashion capital. I am a good writer and I do have experience, but I highly doubt I would get an internship, let alone a job somewhere based on the school I am at now. Plus, I graduated high school in 3 years and I am finishing my undergraduate in 3 years, so if I go for 2 more years to get my masters, I'll still be on track. Honestly, I just don't see another plausible way I can get to NYC (and eventually maybe Europe).

Thanks again for your advice and I will definitely message you if I have any questions ^_^:flower:!
 
To be honest, as many people there are these days working in top positions at magazines that didn't have any writing/journalism experience whatsoever... I don't think that people should follow that trend.

I, myself, am a journalism major. Sure, I could have majored in Art History and maybe end up at a fashion mag like I wish to as a journalism major... but I feel more secured that I will find a position because of my extensive journalism resume.

Vavavinny, don't be deterred! NYU is a great school, though no matter what you study there the name NYU itself will get you a lot of places.

I do not think you will find many inexperienced people occupying top positions at serious magazines. Some magazines do put celebrities and socialites on their mastheads as Contributing Editors but these people get nowhere near the decision-making processes. If you get a job in journalism, Frieda, I bet it will be because of your extensive resumé rather than any academic qualifications you have. In many newspapers and magazines, holding a degree of some kind in journalism or media studies can actually be a disadvantage. Most editors are looking for people with talent, writing ability and the self-discipline to turn the copy in on time. I presume your journalism major was in a language other than English?

PK
 
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I do not think you will find many inexperienced people occupying top positions at serious magazines. Some magazines do put celebrities and socialites on their mastheads as Contributing Editors but these people get nowhere near the decision-making processes. If you get a job in journalism, Frieda, I bet it will be because of your extensive resumé rather than any academic qualifications you have. In many newspapers and magazines, holding a degree of some kind in journalism or media studies can actually be a disadvantage. Most editors are looking for people with talent, writing ability and the self-discipline to turn the copy in on time. I presume your journalism major was in a language other than English?

PK

I think your major/degree has a lot to say of your experience. If you attended a Journalism School versus just having majored in a Communications department as a journalism major, that speaks volumes. Journalism Schools often have courses that define your skills and experience. of course, it should be said that a student should supplement their in-class studies with internships, publications, etc, but if you have BOTH the journalism school and experience to show for it, it's a double whammy. True, some positions people are looking for a more well-rounded, creative individual. But if you're a journalism major/grad, you'll have a portfolio to show of your creativity with your ability to write for different publications, varying your style of writing, and your ability to write about all different topics.

PK, I am a journalism major in English... my minor is French. To go along with the above, I think it's crucial for your minor to be something reflective of that creativity - whether that be Art History or French. Languages are very helpful. Regardless of what others are saying, I would find a journalism degree to be completely advantageous over others who have experience on their resume but not the skills necessary for a top magazine.
 
I do not think you will find many inexperienced people occupying top positions at serious magazines. Some magazines do put celebrities and socialites on their mastheads as Contributing Editors but these people get nowhere near the decision-making processes. If you get a job in journalism, Frieda, I bet it will be because of your extensive resumé rather than any academic qualifications you have. In many newspapers and magazines, holding a degree of some kind in journalism or media studies can actually be a disadvantage. Most editors are looking for people with talent, writing ability and the self-discipline to turn the copy in on time. I presume your journalism major was in a language other than English?

PK

I definitely agree that a person with talent, writing ability, and self-discipline is a top candidate for a magazine job no matter what they majored in. I opted to take literature and art history classes to improve my knowledge of culture and also to get many reference points. I don't think one needs to take journalism classes to be a journalist or learn how to write well. That said, I think a very good journalism department could a set an individual up with a very good magazine. More than any other department, it would make sense that the journalism department would be most connected with magazines for internship purposes.
 
I have studied Journalism for three years in the UK.
I am about to finish my degree next month and I graduate in July.

Its really hard thinking about the future when there are so many people going for the same jobs. To be honest I'm just going to get applying for loads of internships... I need more experience which I haven't been able to get loads of with studying outside of London. The experience I have got though has been helpful to me.

I really want to work in editorial and features. Writing about fashion for a living would be amazing. Like others have said I would like to dabble in styling but that's a whole other ball game.
 
I think your major/degree has a lot to say of your experience. If you attended a Journalism School versus just having majored in a Communications department as a journalism major, that speaks volumes. Journalism Schools often have courses that define your skills and experience. of course, it should be said that a student should supplement their in-class studies with internships, publications, etc, but if you have BOTH the journalism school and experience to show for it, it's a double whammy. True, some positions people are looking for a more well-rounded, creative individual. But if you're a journalism major/grad, you'll have a portfolio to show of your creativity with your ability to write for different publications, varying your style of writing, and your ability to write about all different topics.

It really depends on the cultural and intellectual qualities of the editor evaluating the portfolio of a potential contributor or staff writer. I could name editors working on top fashion and style magazines whose combined IQs might not equal that of the average tree frog. Fortunately, they are in the minority but unfortunately, they are sometimes in a position to judge the qualities of job applicants. Not only are they unqualified to do so but they tend to favour people who do not represent any kind of threat to them. In short, they do not know if the portfolio they are thumbing is any good or not.

PK, I am a journalism major in English... my minor is French. To go along with the above, I think it's crucial for your minor to be something reflective of that creativity - whether that be Art History or French. Languages are very helpful. Regardless of what others are saying, I would find a journalism degree to be completely advantageous over others who have experience on their resume but not the skills necessary for a top magazine.

So, you would choose, for example, a 22-year old freshly out of journalism school over a 22-year old with a portfolio of freelance contributions to reputable magazines, newspapers and webzines? Speaking as a former editor on a number of magazines covering quite a wide range of topics, I would choose the candidate who could not only present competent work but could also prove that he or she had been able to produce that work under real life conditions and, moreover, sell or even presell it it to a commissioning editor. As for languages, they are certainly very useful. However, there is a difference between being able to order a coffee or conduct a simple interview in a foreign language and actually writing competently in that language.

Vous maîtrisez très bien la langue de la perfide Albion, ma belle, mais en ma qualité de, par exemple, ancien Rédacteur en chef magazine de Vogue Hommes International, dont il y avait une édition française et une en anglais, dont le contenu identique, votre anglais contient autant d'erreurs que mon français. Pourtant, si vous vous présentiez devant un rédacteur ou rédactrice anglophone qui ne maîtrisait même pas leur propre langue à ce point-là, vous seriez sans nulle doute engagée.

You take my point, don't you? You did a journalism major in English and should be applauded for this achievement but, on the other hand, I think that any article you submitted in English would require a certain amount of editing and correction, as your posts on this forum indicate. I am not trying to be mean to you in saying this. I'm just stating the blunt truth. I know that when I write in French, I have at least two native French-speaking colleagues check my drafts out before I presume to submit them to French magazines.

If you are interviewed by someone who is not sufficiently educated or cultured to pick up on your grammatical and syntactical errors, then do you think that such a person is qualified to evaluate your portfolio?

PK
 
Ya got me, PK, my French is completely down the drain at this point in my studies. Two semesters off as well as being subjected to professors that don't stress conversation in class over written work, well, that would do it!

I agree, freelancing would be a fantastic way to prove not only your competence but also determination/motivation. But at the same time, it certainly depends WHAT journalism school that fresh out of j-school grad went to. I can speak to a few undergrad programs that REQUIRE students to participate in daily publications, side internships, and publications required through courses. I'm not at all trying to be rude, just trying to understand what you mean by "under real life conditions." I don't think by any means there is any kind of formula, equation or combination of a "perfect resume" that would make someone a shoe-in for a position, whether intern or full-time job; if anything, it is frightening to know that you could have everything a-z on your resume and yet, be turned away for over-qualifications or even more alarming, NOT ENOUGH EXPERIENCE!

And sure, I know my forum posts aren't perfect. I don't exactly gruel over them as I would in editing papers for my classes.
 
I wish you luck in your intended career, Frieda. As a side note, one cannot use "gruel" as an active verb. In fact, it is an obsolete verb rooted in medieval German and used to mean "to punish" so if you were punishing yourself by making an effort to write English properly when introducing yourself as a journalism major and dispensing advice and giving opinions, you would use a reflexive form. However, it has never to my knowledge been used in this way in English literature or journalism. We use the present participle - gruelling or, in American English, grueling - to communicate the punishing or hard nature of, in the main, a task that was not easy to accomplish.

Before one mangles the English language to the point of giving the strong impression of not being a native English speaker, one ought to have sufficient respect for it to learn how to write it properly, especially if one proposes to earn one's crust by writing in English. True, internet posts are not literature and we sometimes take less care than we would were we composing a feature or completing a chapter.

Straddling the line between art and craft, journalism can be compared to some modern art in the sense that many of the "new wave artists" filling our empty spaces with junk, unmade beds, crusty underwear, piles of spray-painted hay bales and all the other pretentious rubbish touted as art these days are unable to master the basics, like drawing a horse or a human torso.

You ought to make more of an effort to perfect or at least improve your written English because there are still some editors who insist upon minimum standards and who, strange or even unjust though it may seem to young people reared on a diet of web pulp and the anyone-with-a-blog-is-a-writer idea, tend to react badly to youngsters with journalism degrees thinking they know it all, particularly when their composition is a bit ropey.

You won't be able to protest that you make more of an effort over class papers because you will be under "real life conditions", which are very harsh and unforgiving. Your teachers are probably under orders not to upset the students in their care in case the parents sue the school but most editors I know would probably throw you physically out of their offices if you came onto them with the kind of attitude you tried on in this forum. As for the French thing, yeah, I got you but I wasn't trying to get you. I was trying to be nice, which was clearly lost on you. What is alarming is that your written English lead me to believe that you were French or even French-Canadian. Or perhaps a Russian recently arrived in the US.

PK
 
Well, surely, I guess we are just two different people that see things differently. I respect that. And while I know certain words are not considered verbs in formal language - ie papers, newspaper articles, etc., it's called "creative writing" in that you can transform words into other forms.

To be honest, i haven't brought any kind of attitude. I'm just kind of clueless and curious as to stuff that you have alluded to in your posts; thus, I have asked for more clarification. If anyone has been very pretentious and beaming with attitude, it's you. Professors don't have to make students cry to create "real life conditions." There's a fine line with University policies as to what a professor can and cannot do, of course. Yadda yadda they are supposed to be your mentor and help you grow, but my professors haven't hesitated whatsoever in handing my colleagues zeros for their incomplete reporting.

Case in point, there's no reason to cause a scene. I have sincerely enjoyed your responses PK, to get more insight as to what you mean. That said, I've also enjoyed your responses since you've had editor experiences in a country other than the U.S.
 
I was wait-listed at Parsons, so it now looks like I am going to NYU for journalism, a prospect that I am both excited by and a bit apprehensive about. I am definitely going to be taking art history and film classes in addition to my journalism courses because straight journalism sounds a bit tedious. The internship opportunities, however, are invaluable. I hope it is all meant to be. The program at Parsons sounded so tailored to my interests, but they only have fifteen spots, which is understandable. Oh well :(!
 
Well, surely, I guess we are just two different people that see things differently. I respect that. And while I know certain words are not considered verbs in formal language - ie papers, newspaper articles, etc., it's called "creative writing" in that you can transform words into other forms.

I would agree that we see things differently. I am certainly aware of the transformation of words and their meaning. Some people see this as the evolution of language and, in some cases, this is a valid viewpoint. In other cases, it is simply a corruption of language by individuals or groups who lack a command of vocabulary.

I suppose you could describe this as "creative writing", much in the same way as some people describe the tagging of walls by suburban non-entities as "artistic self-expression". Norman Mailer, amongst others, took the view that tagging was the imposition of their presence upon our presence. That is an element of art, in the sense that art is generally supposed to catch our attention.

However, I am not sure that the mangling of written language by anyone other than an obviously talented gonzo-style writer or street poet qualifies as literary art or "creative writing". Jumping ahead to your description of me as pretentious, one could describe as "pretentious" someone seeking to conceal a lack of talent and education behind semi-literacy touted as "creative writing".

However, these are value judgements I would never apply to any writer or potential writer without seeing a range of their actual work. I can only base my impressions of you upon your linguistic standards and your statements in this arena but I might be entirely wrong. You might be a Pulitzer Prize winner-in-waiting.

To be honest, i haven't brought any kind of attitude. I'm just kind of clueless and curious as to stuff that you have alluded to in your posts; thus, I have asked for more clarification. If anyone has been very pretentious and beaming with attitude, it's you. Professors don't have to make students cry to create "real life conditions."

If my posts made you cry, Frieda, I regret it but would nevertheless tell you to toughen yourself up a bit or seriously consider another career path. The "real life conditions" of journalism bear little relation to the television drama series and movies that tend to romanticise the job. This isn't to suggest that it is exclusively grim.

However, if you turn up, even as an intern, and hand in error-laden copy to an editor, you will probably be verbally eviscerated. Editors only tolerate semi-literate copy from "names", who only get away with it because they are well-connected or because they might have been good once upon a time, before they hit the bottle or the coke. As much of your early career may be spent rewriting or even ghostwriting copy for your superiors or their boozed-up, coked-up contributors, your basic English is going to have to be of a high standard.

There's a fine line with University policies as to what a professor can and cannot do, of course. Yadda yadda they are supposed to be your mentor and help you grow, but my professors haven't hesitated whatsoever in handing my colleagues zeros for their incomplete reporting.

I am aware of the limitations imposed upon teachers and lecturers these days. It is one of the reasons why good writers are so thin on the ground. University admissions policies are much looser than they used to be and standards have been lowered because of the need to report high success percentages. If you have professors who are awarding zero marks to inept students, then they are courageous because they are risking lawsuits from angry parents.

Coming back to your remarks about me, it is true that I have a certain "attitude", especially regarding people who consider the application and maintenance of standards to be "pretentious". You might consider the trashing of standards to be rebellious and avant garde but you have to earn the right to trash the standards first. Most of the successful writers known for mangling the language when they feel like it have mastered its traditional, classic forms beforehand.

You can insult me if you wish but if my remarks and observations serve to help any of the young people reading them, then it is worth the time I have taken to post them. If, as it seems, they are not what you want to hear, or read, it is no skin off my nose.

PK
 
It is so interesting to read everyone's comments regarding fashion journalism, it is clear that everyone has different viewpoints on the subject. However, I was curious to know what sort of recommendations you might have for a soon-to-be freshman in college, studying journalism. Do you have any ideas/suggestions about how I should proceed with getting into the industry or what types of classes you highly recommend taking? All advice is welcome, thanks!
 
I'll apologize for reitterating what a majority of the people have posted in this topic, but well, we all seem to have the same questions with the hope of getting individual answers. Regardless, I have some decision making coming up soon, and I want to get advice from those who know what they're talking about, rather than my guidance councellor who did not go to school for journalism.

I am going into my senior year of highschool in September, and although it seems like I have a while to make my decisions, I like to make plans ahead of time. I'm taking the following courses next year to prepare for university, all AP level (the highest:(
English
Writer's Craft
Politics
French
Philosophy
Drama

I plan to go to university, and my top three choices are: Queen's, Western, and Ottawa. Yes, I live in Canada, and am planning on going to school in Canada. But this brings me to the problem I have. Unless I have overlooked it, I haven't seen anyone talk about journalism in Canada. Yes, I know the process will most likely be the same. A lot of interships, and get experience while getting a degree. I know most of you who are already in the business, and most in general do not have journalism degrees, but I would like a post-secondary education to fall back on, which is why I've chosen not to take Dramatic Arts as my major, despite my dream of being on broadway.

Now that that horrible and confusing mini-introduction has been put out there, I would just like some advice on what I should do to get into the biz in Canada, and in fashion journalism specifically. Seeing as I can't really learn about fashion on its own without planning on being a designer, (or can I?), what's the best way to learn all of the tricks of the trade? I know a lot about the model industry, and designers and shows, but I know there's a lot more for me to learn before I can consider myself good enough to start in the industry. And yes, I know it's a step ladder, and it's tricky and tough and such, but that's what attracts me to it. I like challenges and I like improvment.

Thanks :smile:
 
Any idiot can become a journalist, as the issue of press cards to bloggers by the NUJ and other press unions proves. The thing is, do you have what it takes to become a good journalist?

PK

So according to you, what does it take to become a good journalist?
 
i've been considering applying for a copywriting internship and considering the idea of becoming a copy editor in order to get my foot in the door ( i aspire to be a fashion features writer). should i apply for the internship and is it easy to get a job as a copy editor?
 
I think that it wouldn't hurt to apply for the internship, who knows you might start out as a copywriter but then if you are good at it they might give more opprotunties to work in the area which you are more interested in.
 
i'm looking into taking either journalism of applied communications in professional writing.
i don't know which would be more beneficial?

also, can anyone recommend universities in canada that specialize in fashion/fashion journalism?
 

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