Helmut Lang S/S 2004 - old school helmut!

[runner]

thank you very much for posting all those pics softgrey



there was actually sort of, say, hugo boss side of the actual collections in those days.
and I remember someone at IPI telling me that was a certain period for which HL was german market-oriented and that HL was selling the most in germany, when I was asking him about some change of the fit etc. it was around 00 or 01.
but apart from that, if you look back on days in the 90's, there had always been a certain element of " dads' ".
I found it charming though.
I believe HL had produced more polo shirts than any other designers who had ever been called edgy or whatever.

Yes, Helmut pioneered a certain look, but he was admittedly slow to adapt to the new, slimmer silhouette in menswear that Hedi and Raf (and also Rick) were already doing then and that made Helmut's clothes seem baggy and wide in the cut for something that was formerly described as strict and sharp cut.

to me it seems more appropriate to say that he was "slow" to go back to "what was described as strict and sharp cut" if you say that.
in some of the collections from the 90's it had certainly been slimmer than what raf was doing at least.
sometimes the slimness had felt even a bit scary.
but if I was allowed to express my very personal opinion I never liked that particular slim silhouette of the slimane bottoms. it looked a bit too youth or too "pretty boy". it never looked like something a man would wear. something a dad can wear seemed better.
and personally I was happy HL didn't go along easily with the stream.

 

[Phuel]

Scott: This is all I have of that most-influential A/W 96 collection:
http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f60/helmut-lang-f-w-1996-a-146937.html

 

[tricotineacetat]

thank you very much for posting all those pics softgrey



there was actually sort of, say, hugo boss side of the actual collections in those days.
and I remember someone at IPI telling me that was a certain period for which HL was german market-oriented and that HL was selling the most in germany, when I was asking him about some change of the fit etc. it was around 00 or 01.
but apart from that, if you look back on days in the 90's, there had always been a certain element of " dads' ".
I found it charming though.
I believe HL had produced more polo shirts than any other designers who had ever been called edgy or whatever.


to me it seems more appropriate to say that he was "slow" to go back to "what was described as strict and sharp cut" if you say that.
in some of the collections from the 90's it had certainly been slimmer than what raf was doing at least.
sometimes the slimness had felt even a bit scary.
but if I was allowed to express my very personal opinion I never liked that particular slim silhouette of the slimane bottoms. it looked a bit too youth or too "pretty boy". it never looked like something a man would wear. something a dad can wear seemed better.
and personally I was happy HL didn't go along easily with the stream.

The way I am looking at the clothes is informed first and foremost by what was in the stores and not what had been presented on the runway - Slimane was well known to have the show collection made in a particularly small-sized 46 that had nothing to do with the production fitting that was done afterwards... and yes, the boys got skinnier and younger every season, which was maybe a mistake as it distracted in some cases to look at the clothes themselves.

So, looking at the clothing from that perspective, both Hedi and Helmut championed a slim suit trouser of approx. 19cm in the half leg opening (which has by now become the standardized slim-fit suit bottom from H&M to Hugo Boss) - The difference is, whereas Hedi's was cut pretty much straight-slim fitting, Helmut's tended to have a pronounced, tapered look, often resulting in a baggy derrière and upper thighs... My brother wears suits on a daily basis and is a classic size 50 by middle/northern European standards and you could easily see that difference in the cut between the two designers... The Helmut suit under Prada seemed wide both in the jacket (sleeves, body) and the trousers (upper thigh, bum), even on an adult, slim man's body... In fact, you could see it very clearly even in he last men's show Helmut presented in the Espace Commines... the trousers have an odd fit on most of the boys that does not really befit the cleanness of Helmut's look...

 

[runner]

^
what I said is also mostly based on the stuff placed in the stores and in the wild / on the streets, as I wrote "the actual collections". and men in slimane's suits often looked odd. I thought it's much better on boys.
and I didn't say HL under prada was the best. instead, men in HL looked better than men in slimane's, in my eyes.
and that, even when it's steeped in prada, nonetheless I preferred HL because there was some masculine elements still left.

 

[Inaya]

this thread's revival is both great and a curse!
at a time when I'm evolving my closet again, simplifying and getting rid of a lot of the dramaticor ornate things I've worn for the last handful of seasons.. all I really find myself really wanting to wear are my old HL or old Margiela pieces. and now that both houses cease to exist as they once were, it's a bit bittersweet, but ultimately lovely to see these old images.

 

[softgrey]

oh phuel...
those images need to go in a separate thread dear...
or else how will anyone ever know that they are here if we try to look for them again later...?

*sigh*...
ok---gotta figure out how to move them...and keep the flow here intact...
**kinda surprise inaya didn't already do it actually...
...

thx very much for sharing them with us though...

 

[softgrey]

alright- the thread for helmut lang f/w 1996 is here
http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f60/helmut-lang-f-w-1996-a-146937.html

i am removing images from this thread...
please refer to the fw 96 thread for any images from that season as they relate to this discussion...

thanks...

 

[softgrey]

i'm going to add my 2 cents into this conversation regarding fit...

first-
i agree with the idea that tric says---
the fit of the pants definitely needed to evolve at some point...
as silhouettes got narrower- some items, particularly the jeans, started to feel dated,
imo...
they definitley could have used an update...

however- overall...
i really agree with what runner says about the masculinity of helmut's menswear...

from a heterosexual woman's point of view...
the menswear just had a certain masculine 'swagger' that i found very appealing...
it's just plain sexy!...
i strongly prefer the fit and look of what helmut produced over anything that hedi did...
*with the exception of some of the musicians who wore slimane for performing...
cause that was just fun and you can get away with a whole different level of extreme on stage...

i guess that is what it comes down to...
extremes...
hedi was just a bit too extreme for my personal taste...
(though i completely appreciate his talent)
i was always drawn to the subtlety of helmut's work...
*like the little elbow slashes, for example...

though, i confess, the subtlety is not clearly apparent in this 2004 collection...
...

 

[softgrey]

everybody was wearing his handcuff bracelet and it's still selling for ridiculous amounts on Ebay!

hmm...
i have that bracelet...i should probably be wearing that, shouldn't i...?!?


...

 

[tricotineacetat]

I think the point with any design coming from a purist design approach is that you really need the clothes to be top-notch finished and fabrics carefully chosen for the clothes to exude that certain something on top of the banal 'basic'.

As much as I love my vintage Helmut, most of it didn't keep up too well from the Prada days, except for the leather goods and shoes that are part of their core expertise - I mean, look at what Jil Sander has been doing with Uniqlo, it's often times just as good as the stuff that was produced in the early 2000's at Prada... no surprise they must have both been in agony seeing their design watered down to such a degree then.

I think it's probably safe to say that Helmut's best days in terms of the product were probably before he signed with Bertelli, whereas his collections following that allowed him to pursue a different, till then unseen conceptual approach that was never that obvious in the collections he designed before - As we all came to realise, a lot of what he showed in Paris from 2003 onwards was highly editorially covetable and much more 'fashion' than the classic Helmut customers knew him for.

 

[softgrey]

if you are speaking strictly about helmut lang under the prada umbrella...
then yes---
i agree...it was never the same again...

I think it's probably safe to say that Helmut's best days in terms of the product were probably before he signed with Bertelli, whereas his collections following that allowed him to pursue a different, till then unseen conceptual approach that was never that obvious in the collections he designed before - As we all came to realise, a lot of what he showed in Paris from 2003 onwards was highly editorially covetable and much more 'fashion' than the classic Helmut customers knew him for.

really good points here...everything you say here makes perfect sense in retrospect...

in all fairness...
i think my eye had begun wandering towards other designers even before this collection---which is probably why it didn't really stay with me all these years...

it's kind of an amazing thing to rediscover it now...
while it isn't especially wearable...
it is undeniably brilliant on a conceptual level!...

 

[softgrey]

there are elements from this collection that i can see very clearly in this kimerly ovitz s/s 2012 collection...
http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f60/kimberly-ovitz-s-s-2012-new-york-147729.html
it's kind of a mess though...
...