The designers Mimesis and Intempestetivity- of collection's simultanious impacts

[faust]

may be there is some Meta-fashionist that dictate the trends..
bach to 60's ..next season will be baroque,etc,etc

We have discussed this before. I am going to look for the thread. Basically, as I remember our dear Lena explaining, there exist trend forecasting agencies that.. well, forecast trends. Since designers want to make money they go to the forecasting agencies and ask, "What colors/fabrics/items do I make in order to seem trendy. What will SELL?" This is why you see so many similarities in designer work. It is a self-fullilled prophecy, if you ask me...

Couldn't find exactly what I was looking for but here is what Lena had said in the past

it all starts from the 'bureaux de style' books and individual consulting agencies,
and major trends start up from fabric manufacturers, see designers create with what is produced by their suppliers.

major moods are emerging out of long and precise observations done by real 'huge' trend webs that act, un-code and communicate global new atmospheres in marketing, society, lifestyle and decoration.

its a huge melting pot and yes, designers do get affected by global trendscouts in their creative process

but it sure is not some 'conspirancy' just professional quidance based on global style studies, it has been going on since the early 80s or even earlier

 

[nqth]

^ yes I think there are threads on it. Trends forecasting agencies, fabrics fairs... all lead to some of the trends. It might be the designer's decision to go with or against:-P

Some designers usually start working on coll based on very "simple ideal", not really associated with trends. But of course, the ideas must come from somewhere indeed:-)

You might know how Rei Kawakubo works. She gives ideas to her assistants and few day before the show things are "set" together. So that the end effects are mostly really unexpected.

 

[nqth]

Junya doing military, no one really liked, because, and a few said this, it was so "done". It's good not to care about such notions I think..just do what appeals to you. Forget "done" or "trend".

I like it Johnny:-)
Actually the army things are all over the place late winter early spring here in Poland. But camo meet stripes jkts are one of a kind:-P

 

[Johnny]

I know you like it nqth .

 

[fashionista-ta]

Well, here is my extremely amateur opinion about this (I do not work in the field.)

If it's a question of fabric (plaids, eyelets, tweeds, whatever), that seems to be often driven by the fabric industry, no? Some designers (Dries comes to mind) seem to use unique fabrics, some (DVF) are known for designing their own prints, but eyelet is a great example ... I would bet that trend was driven by the mills and not the designers themselves. I could be wrong

I too have heard that collections look alike because of trend forecasting. However, thanks to tFS, I have looked at some of these trend books, and they certainly aren't a blueprint.

One thing that's pretty obvious just from looking at all the collections is that designers, including "top" designers, crib from each other, and/or riff on each other, in a very current way (i.e., last season).

Look at fur. It wasn't long ago that fur was a dirty word. Who changed that? The fur industry, of course. They started having free, and secretive, design invitationals. If you had a name as a designer, you could expect to be invited to one of these very nice weekends, and be presented with a treasure trove of free fur to play with. Guess what ... fur is back in style.

I think there's also a "spirit of the age." Right now it's heading back in a minimalist direction. It hasn't been at all unusual for two different people, not in communication with each other, to invent the same thing at about the same time--and I mean outside fashion. I believe there is a collective consciousness that facilitates our collective knowledge, accomplishment, and innovation. Often "the time is right" for something, and it happens.

What I found most surprising this season was the use of masks. I assume that most if not all are runway-only--not intended for sale. Surely no woman in her right mind would buy that solid knit hood thing shown at Undercover, I think it was? I imagine these masks are probably an example of this collective thing at work.

 

[Whimsicalist]

However, thanks to tFS, I have looked at some of these trend books, and they certainly aren't a blueprint

please,tell this more simple..i can't understand it...

treasure trove ---
what is this

 

[Whimsicalist]

whre in tFS you found this trend books?

 

[fashionista-ta]

please,tell this more simple..i can't understand it...

treasure trove ---
what is this

Well, what I mean is, you would think from a lot of the comments about the trend books that they tell designers (like fashion mags try to tell us), here are the 10 things you must have in your collection In fact I found them to be quite vague and unhelpful in terms of understanding what was coming myself. There might be some colors, a fabric swatch, a sketch, a description of a mood ... Keep an eye on Trend Spotting, I imagine the guy who has posted them in the past will do so again ...

We've also had members who've attended trend forecasting seminars post their notes on what they heard, and honestly, it sounds like the trend people are trying to cover every single base so no one can say they were wrong, because whatever happens--they predicted it.

By treasure trove, I just mean that the fur people brought really fantastic stuff for the designers to work with, no expense spared--the most interesting, colorful, expensive pelts.

Btw, this is the online dictionary I use: m-w.com

That and Google tell me practically everything I need to know--well, along with tFS of course

 

[purechris]

I believe there is a collective consciousness that facilitates our collective knowledge, accomplishment, and innovation. Often "the time is right" for something, and it happens.

What I found most surprising this season was the use of masks. I assume that most if not all are runway-only--not intended for sale. Surely no woman in her right mind would buy that solid knit hood thing shown at Undercover, I think it was? I imagine these masks are probably an example of this collective thing at work.

can't explain the mask thing either although I did find it interesting

ta-ta--you hit the nail on the head with that point. I think a lot of similarities are coming because we live in such a global community that the inspirations are the same for a lot of people (in all fields). We see the same movies, listen to the same music, read the same books/magazines. Once somebody others hold in high esteem says something the word spreads like fire....read The Tipping Point it really explores this but uses the term epidemic instead of trend....not just for fashion and design, but the world in general.

Trend forecasting companies do contribute quite a bit to the industry, but I assume a lot more is for retailers and buyers....

The fabric industry also has a lot to do with it as well. It's what the designers have to work with, unless the have there own mills. I know that my company is supposed to have exclusivity on prints, but I saw one of our Spring prints in a window 3 months before we had it (somebody was not happy )

The animal print thing for F/W 06 was very bizarre, no? It just came out of nowhere, but the really strange thing is that Bill Cunningham shot it 2 weeks ago on the streets of NYC and I'm seeing people everywhere in animal print coats.....and we've just gotten to the Spring collections.

In Unzipped, the movie about Isaac Mizrahi designing a collection, he has a Nanook of the North inspiration. Then he sees somebody else (Gaultier, I think) has a very similar theme and completely freaks out......classic example

 

[fashionista-ta]

zeitgeist

^ Great example, Chris ... I should watch Unzipped, I haven't seen it

Btw, I suspect the masks might be related to Abu Graib. That was my first thought anyway.

 

[purechris]

You HAVE to see Unzipped.....love him or hate him, it's a great movie for any fashion lover.

I think the masks have more to do with armor.....against the natural and man made elements/violence of the world we inhabit

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I'll add it to my list

Well, I guess there were hoods and masks both covering the face. The hoods are what reminded me of Abu Graib. For whatever reason seeing anything covering a woman's face like that gives me a really bad vibe, so in my mind they were one thing, but maybe it's really two things.

 

[softgrey]

i think you have to differentiate btw masks (as seen at cdg) and hoods..

not the same effect and not the same impetus i would guess...


it is too easy to generalize when looking for 'trends'...
magazines and stores have to look for trends because they need a way to present the season's new looks in a cohesive fashion...

but very often they are really completely unrelated things that get lumped together for the sake of convenience and marketing...

 

[Whimsicalist]

thanks .I appreciate all your interventions.
i find lot of them helpful and close to be significant.
I am not sure Hedi use this bureaux du style...don`t you think?

treasure trouve..

see,i can understand words- there is mari-webster,bartleby,
but I can collect them in comrehension,
treasure trouve on fur weekends and designers playing ..
excuse me,there is huge difference betweeen languages `s works

I need more explenation!
i m sure this theasing,becase everyone prefer phrase ,because it express him.
if you had change it as talking to a kid -this is nonsense for you!
just sometimes i`d ask,excuse me preliminary

 

[fashionista-ta]

^ I understand, Whimsy Not a problem ... hope my explanation made sense.

I also think that trends are real ... I do occasionally see a categorization that doesn't ring true to me, but 90-95% are on target, I think ...

 

[Whimsicalist]

You might know how Rei Kawakubo works. She gives ideas to her assistants and few day before the show things are "set" together. So that the end effects are mostly really unexpected

.

is this reliable information!

some of my friend bulg designer who use to work for a while in paris said this is not true!

then he mention in theaspect of elaboration of some knowledge how something appeare in a "right" moment the folllows

every designer had f.ex 200 things

Hedi show in the last day of fash week ..then he can consider which of things might be shown and then they show 120 things
1.to be part of one impact -seasonal (as cape -done by burberry ,carlo pign,raf simons,issey,masatomo)
2.to avoid some similarity..
so ,do you find thisreasonable..is the showings works like that

 

[Whimsicalist]

fash insiders,please do comment of my question above

 

[fashionista-ta]

Some designers definitely have much more than they show (whether it's all developed pre-show, I don't know). Other designers simply have other colorways. Some designers are probably showing everything they've got.

If you look at marcjacobs.com, he uses the runway pix as his lookbook. Buyers may see some different things, some stores may get exclusives on this or that piece, but what you see on the runway (IF you can see it on the runway buried under three layers ) is mostly what you get.