using animal skins in handbags

[renferme]

Thank you Lady Muck & Luna! It is very interesting to know that supply of leather is very much dependent on the demand for meat. I like the way Luna describes it.."you don't raise them to be leather cows ". And thanks to Angel too for starting this very informative thread karma points for you!!

Lady Muck, would you happen to know how the leather trade or industry works? How do companies ( e.g. Hermes ) get hold of the best/top grade leather? Just wondering whether there would be auctions for leather...

This is where the designers go every season
Lineapelle
It's where all the best tanneries show. They show collections every season, with all the new colours and finishes.
Choose your leather, order a skin or two to make your samples, then the factory orders from the tannery for production.

If any clothing people here have heard of Premiere Vision - it's just the same, except it's leather not textiles.

Hermes probably have a long standing relationship with their tanneries and will be involved in any new innovation.

 

[Luna]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hermes funded their own tannery.

 

[renferme]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hermes funded their own tannery.

With the price of their bags - neither would I!

 

[gigi leung]

Thanks for sharing ! yeah..ditto that Hermes might have their own tannery. The leather they use for their bags are really top-notch.

 

[findesiecle]

First of all, thank you to angel and all of the contributors. Have been thinking about this for a while, but never actually took the time to dwell on it. I'm not a vegetarian and love animals (and that includes reptiles!!), and I wear leather. The guilt I feel is a part of me, something I do not wish to ignore or justify. I just hope I can lessen that inner friction somehow.

 

[urd]

I'm a vegeterian and I wear leather. I guess that is something I'm used to, because leather is so common in our society (but so is meat)

what I'm trying to say is leather bags are not so obvios animal murder, so it doesn't bother me. I also keep telling myself that the animals where the leather comes from have been eaten, so they didn't die in vain. I'm not sure if this makes any sence, 'cause I wouldn't eat the meat and I don't need leather bags to survive

 

[ChagueCouture]

it's smart to stick to bags and not broaden the post to include fur... that would make this a neverending thread
lol
however, i recently aqquired a mink stole to make a carrying bag for my dog, and a woman at the biltmore center here in phoenix was angry with me and yelled at me exclaiming: 'what kind of monster carries their domestic animal around in a murdered animal!'
to that i exclaimed: I didnt kill the animals, they were 15 years old and i recycled them. And even if they werent 15 years old, i still had nothing to do with their deaths.'
(is it wrong to have dreams of writhing on a floor covered in fur naked?)
Louis vuitton has dabbled in making mink clutches... not that i ever found them attractive.
I have nothing against leather or fur.... as long as it's farmed and not wild.
it's like with cows... wether we use them for milk, leather or meat, they have no defenses. After hundreds of years of domesticating these animals, i think that letting them free onto the plains to roam in the wild would be a mistake.
as far as animals like lizards and aligators, they can be farmed, however they still have their natural instincts. to capture them and murder them is wrong.
*shrugs* then again, i never liked the look of either in a bag anyways. it makes me think of 'shabby chic'
*shudders*

 

[Swank]

i was reading in the Hermes thread where a few ppl were talking about the use of python and zebra skins..and i wanted to reply but since my comments were going to be only about the use of skins and not about Hermes, i thought it would be more appropriate if i made a new thread.

The zebra-printed birkin is NOT made out of zebra skins but zebra-print hair-calf. You can refer to my post in that thread.

 

[esiders]

No, sorry leather is generally a by-product. I work in the shoe trade and spend A LOT of time at tanneries and working with leather. Most cheap leather comes from Brazil where it is a by-product of the meat industry.

To farm a cow for hide alone would be unworkable - the price for the return would be too high. Even the kid that is farmed in Spain, for its' leather, go to any local restaurant and there will be kid chops on the menu.

You CAN buy pony or cowskin - I prefer to use pony because it looks better. I've used both and I know the difference.

link

I quote from the link

''Cattlehides are a by-product of the meat-packing industry, and their supply depends solely on demand for meat.''

Um, sorry but my mother lives in a farming community where her neighbors DO raise cows for leather. This is a wealthy community where many of the farmers raise a multiude of products like chickens for Tysons and a number have oil wells on their property as well. So, they may not be in the majority, but it does exists.

 

[hermes_lemming]

i once had the opportunity to hear a BR SA describe in detail how they're able to manufacture such soft pony hair for their fall jackets. not a pretty picture. one of my co-workers, an equestrian, almost fainted. this was about 5 years ago. i sincerely hope that their methods have since changed.

p.s. my co-worker filed a complaint with the company and the jackets were quickly pulled off the line. i should know - we both worked at the corporate headquarters.

 

[roey]

This may sound totally naive and stupid, but a friend of mine who owns several Python Silverados said the snakes aren't killed for their skins. The "hunters" use the already shed skins from live snakes... cause it's not like the snakes have a use for them anymore.

This sounds plausible to me (a devout animal lover).

 

[LilyGirl]

This may sound totally naive and stupid, but a friend of mine who owns several Python Silverados said the snakes aren't killed for their skins. The "hunters" use the already shed skins from live snakes... cause it's not like the snakes have a use for them anymore.

This sounds plausible to me (a devout animal lover).

I'm no reptile expert, but I've seen shedded snake skin and it's very very thin and not very attractive. I think it's very unlikely that it can be used for accessories. and if this were the case, then the ban imposed by california wouldn't make any sense. how likely is it that all handbag manufacturers use skins from dead snakes except for chloe?

 

[renferme]

Um, sorry but my mother lives in a farming community where her neighbors DO raise cows for leather. This is a wealthy community where many of the farmers raise a multiude of products like chickens for Tysons and a number have oil wells on their property as well. So, they may not be in the majority, but it does exists.

I bet they don't throw away the carcasses though do they? Ask them. Would you throw it away when it can be used for meat?

Same as the kid I've seen in Spain - it is farmed predominantly for it's hide, but the meat is still sold for eating.

 

[LilyGirl]

I would hope that the meat is consumed, but who knows. here is an article I found about python skins. it further makes me think that the animals are killed -- sorry roey

The two most popular kinds of python used in the fashion industry are the browny-orange "python curtus" and the grey-and-white "python reticulatus". Both are listed in appendix II of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), to which 170 countries are signatories. They may only be traded under licence.

"Indonesia is probably the largest exporter of python skin," Shepherd said, "and the Government is so concerned about the illegal trade that it has asked for international help to stamp it out. "I have been to visit dozens of so-called python 'farms' but only one of them was breeding pythons. The rest were using the farms as a cover for pythons caught in the wild."

In India, villagers are being paid so little per skin that farming would not be viable. Since 1977, when the trade in snakes led to an increase in rats and decimation of food stocks, trade in reptiles has been illegal. Nevertheless, Belinda Wright, of the Wildlife Protection Society of India, believes the illegal trade in pythons is "substantial".

In California, python has been banned for 25 years but no similar legislation restricts the use of the skin in Europe or other American states. Most fashion houses say the skins are invariably from farmed stocks. "It would be impossible to use any skin that wasn't farmed," said a spokesman for Calvin Klein. "Each skin has to have a CITES certificate," said a spokesman for Mulberry.

 

[justlucky]

As someone who could ride horses before she could walk, I'm pretty confident that "ponyhair" isn't actually pony hide. Without being to graphic, the slaughtering process for horses isn't really conductive to producing nice, useable hides. Also, horses aren't raised for slaughter (its usually injured/old/unridable horses that are slaughtered), so there wouldn't really be any quality control. Not to mention the fact that horse color varies A LOT, so finding matching skins would be quite different.

 

[jun3machina]

hi there, very intersting thread!!!! i heard it mentioned earlier in this thread "astrakhan" and know what it is, but how do they farm it? isn't it like a special breed of sheep skin???

 

[Jellilorum]

... better to exploit animals than people of developing countries ...

 

[Hotel de Paris]

Um, sorry but my mother lives in a farming community where her neighbors DO raise cows for leather. This is a wealthy community where many of the farmers raise a multiude of products like chickens for Tysons and a number have oil wells on their property as well. So, they may not be in the majority, but it does exists.

You're right. Leather is not a slaughterhouse by-product!! Many people think it is! I'm pretty sure the cowskin left over from meatpacking is used for things like rawhide bones for dogs, and other such things.

I myself try to stay away from animals skins of any kinds. The leather straps on my Gucci & Dior bags is as far as I go. I'll never wear croc, alligator, lizard, python, pony hair or anything! I don't even wear fur!
I'm not getting into any debates abou this, but my motto is leave the animal skin, on the animal!

 

[Hotel de Paris]

I've always been told that "ponyhair/ponyskin" is treated cow hide. Same with "zebraskin".

For the record, cows that are used for their hides (ie leather) are NOT used for their meat or milk. Cows are bred for specific reasons: leather, dairy, beef. Dairy cows are generally not eaten; beef cows are not milked. So you are fooling yourself if you rationalize wearing leather because the other parts of the cow were used.

Cows are female cattle. They are used for their milk.
Steer are male cattle. They are used to breed, and for their meat. So it's impossible to milk a steer!

 

[Plastic'sWife]

this makes me think of that LV handbag... its hideous! So not worth the lives of those animals...