Can Luxe keep being produced in a safe, non-offensive space?

audace

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As I sat there, wondering... With the SATC intro done, the question in title.

What do you believe?

Here goes nothing, my personal view: no, it cannot. The primary element of nostalgia is discussion, the primary element of discussion is memorability and distinction, and the primary element of memorability and distinction is being risqué. This is not a challenge to the reality and other views, simply what I thought of the cause, the consequence and the relationship to what we have today.

The majority here in Random Fashion Moments post Karl, Margiela, Anna, Yves, Coco, Hedi, and others, who are known mainly for being a controversy and a personality. Very little people would say Frida or Maier were a good memory. And I am talking about the higher top-to-middle fashion iceberg. I do not mean people like myself and some other members here, who have spent the majority of their lives working for the industry or simply spending all their free time on studying it.

The moments that stick to the mind are Testino's sweaty men or Steven Klein shooting Kate dressed as a possessed nun for W, not Kim K by Carlijn Jacobs (I say this as someone who believes Carlijn is the best new photographer of today). The industry caused a brief controversy before by plus-size inclusion, but as the tight standards for models (mannequins) that we had for centuries got lowered, so did the outcome. Fashion and Luxury Fashion are different beasts, hence the title. Luxury Fashion was a narrative totally inaccessible yet desired by the majority, because Gisele was too sporty for an average human or Snejana Onopka was too skinny with their faces being too perfect. A symbol for striving and trying to achieve something that many may not, because they were born with less height, less money, worse metabolism and etc.

A lot of people back then if were not offended by this, they either did not care or looked at it as truly the model - an aspiration to achieve and something to put yourself into. I also wanted to be Daria Werbowy from Vogue Italia, despite back then being a 14 year old boy. I could not, but I wanted to: with the attitude, the allure and the dreamy mystery.

As the space became diluted by more brands, constantly changing designers, models, ideas, and more inclusivity, I believe that the extremely tight and heavy metal gates inside the world of exclusivity and "I want to be like them too" became rotating glass doors that are easy to see-through and are just as easy for any person to wander into. As much as we all, especially brands above all, want to please everyone, luxury fashion and appeal to the masses is the immovable object meeting unstoppable force: neutering each other and nobody wins in the end.

A separate question, but it does stem form the main one: what keeps you in fashion? Are you in fashion at all?

Personally, I am not except reading very select threads here or looking at 3-4 brands that I enjoy. I do not look at magazines anymore: less pop ones as 032c became too niche, featuring a rotation of random people I cannot care about as the rotate too often and I have no memory or idea of who they are... And big titles are extremely sad. I recently picked up Vogue US of this September as I went to the spa and it was the first time I spent an hour on a magazine. Later on I wished that I had not and Vogue remained in my nostalgia. The pages overrun by low-tier or mid-tier brands. The biggest amount of ad pages were by... H&M! 8!

The article on a home-kit for gut testing being the longest writing piece... When we a decade ago the least important pieces were about the best caviar or a view into the home of Lynn Wyatt. I feel sorry for everyone reading Vogue these days, because I feel just as much how your nostalgia and longing for the ultimate quality of the past has shattered.

Should the old guard exist? Should we accept that the time has passed and luxury became a victim of commodification and mass culture? If it is a niche now, where does it reside? I seemingly cannot find it. The old luxury has died, and the new luxury never arrived.
 
In short, no LOL

The concept of the ultimate, luxurious, and exclusive, ideal imagery, conjured by the most creative of talents, and for an audience/consumer/demographic that yearns to be challenged, inspired, provoked and most importantly, educated, is a thing of the past. And sadly, these once-great creatives' time has passed as well. The new generation of creatives are no longer leaders, just meek followers. Worse, they no longer want to make the most effort for anything, anymore. Better talents like Carlijn Jacobs and Annemarieke van Drimmelen don’t have the pull and demand that lessers like Rafael Pavarotti and Tyler Mitchell have, so their level of excellence aren’t given he exposure to influence people’s standards. And worse than this era being one of mediocrity., it’s the greediest fashion era yet. …Just let it pass, as all fashions do. Something new— and superior in the tradition and standard of the old guard, will come along.

Those of us privileged to have experienced that glorious high fashion golden age of the 90s-2000s need to let go and accept that the past will never return. This current fashion era is what turned me off my former addiction to high fashion. I will always be interested in high fashion. But I’ve also learned that I don’t need it. And that’s very liberating.
 
Of course it can. I mean... how did luxe exist before the "liberation" of the mid-1960s. If you look at Vogue or Bazaar during those times, it was quite conservative by today's standards and about 100X more creative.
 
In terms of fashion magazines and fashion journalism in general, there is nothing left, in my opinion. The height for me was early 2000s W and Vogue and 90s-era (Liz Tilberis) Harper's Bazaar. There is none of that left, and even if a tiny bit of fashion criticism still exists (via Cathy Horyn, Vanessa Friedman, Tim Blanks) not enough people care about them anymore. I don't work in fashion, but I did work in publishing, and from my perspective, everything has degraded thanks to greed, as @Phuel explained. Our society in general (not just fashion) has devolved and degraded so much because of money and endless greed. Look at the state of publishing: it has become a wasteland due to chasing clicks, which means that everything feels the same, neutered, and watered down (like a few years ago when every single magazine website covered every move of the Kardashians, for example, whether it was Vogue or Architectural Digest lol) to the point where you could have A.I. generate the story and slap a clickable headline with the sole purpose of squeezing more advertising pennies out of advertisers, which base their spending on page views. It's all insane and depressing.

This is random, but I also remember being obsessed with those TV shows like House of Style, Fashion File, Video Fashion Weekly when I was a kid in the 90s. I don't know if anything like that exists now, but (this may sound silly) Vogue and those shows were instrumental in my ability to dream of a life outside of my suburban upbringing and to understand what kind of career I wanted. They are probably the reason I moved to NYC. I don't know if kids today have those same aspirational influences, and I'd be curious to know what inspires young people now, who might be interested in this world.
 
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No. Quite simply the pendulum has gone the other direction.

What you're complaining about is quite simply the result of the democratization of fashion. Including the previously not included ruined fashion.

It should be noted that anyone who mentioned this was attacked back when this was first occurring and pointed out that including undesirables would ruin fashion. They were attacked, Karl pointed this out and nothing media spent time trying to trash him for it. Thats why the media is irrelevant in 2024, stuff like that. People remember Karl being attacked by that BBC reporter over something everyone agrees with. People didn't like a seeing a living legend being bullied by a literal nobody.

Everyone agrees fashion should be beautiful and aspirational.

Anna Wintour appears to be leading the pack. Dior and now Chanel (possibly) eschewing her suggestions for CD will surely cause isolationism at Vogue. If anything Anna needs to start cultivating OTB and Capri and make sure to send customers to LVMHs competitors ...
 
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This is random, but I also remember being obsessed with those TV shows like House of Style, Fashion File, Video Fashion Weekly when I was a kid in the 90s. I don't know if anything like that exists now, but (this may sound silly) Vogue and those shows were instrumental in my ability to dream of a life outside of my suburban upbringing and to understand what kind of career I wanted. They are probably the reason I moved to NYC. I don't know if kids today have those same aspirational influences, and I'd be curious to know what inspires young people now, who might be interested in this world.

:sigh:Fashion File:sigh: Tim’s uncensored and thoughtful opinions of fashion, and the no-nonsense doc-style presentation was my first education of the industry. Contrast that to the FT fluff-piece of Jeanne Baker’s nose so far up everyone’s a55 that offered and provided not a whiff of opinion and insight. Tim was my first fashion hero. Models would light up when I show them the brand of rich worldbuilding imagery that we grew up on in abundance in the 90s-2000s. Whether they will be profoundly effected by it the way that I was by Liz/Fabien/Franca/Bruce is unsure— but likely not since they're young and the majority won't be in the industry in 3years: After our brief meeting, they’ll likely just go back to TikTok and it's flexing cloutchasing influencers.

Even so-called insider publications like Purple, Self-Service and Another are nothing close to what they once were.
 
Tim’s uncensored and thoughtful opinions of fashion, and the no-nonsense doc-style presentation was my first education of the industry.
Absolutely. FF/Tim legitimized fashion for me as something that could be taken seriously, that it was a merging of art and commerce. I wish there was an archive of full episodes available online. (I don't think there are even many clips on YouTube).
 
So, are we talking about the entirety of fashion... or just 1990 to 2010 that people feel nostalgic for? That's a really tiny window.
 
^^^ It’s not nostalgia. The creative and intellectual progression of fashion presentation hit its zenith during those decades— taking its inspiration and influences from the 1950s and 1960s. And doing so without copying those decades wholesale. Meisel may be accused of plundering Avedon/Penn/Bailey, but at his best tributes, he made it all his own. That era of fashion balanced daring creative expression, technical and production innovation with a great understanding of accessibility like no other fashion era. Looking back at those magazines, I can still learn about lighting, composition, casting, storytelling and still covet the fashions that’s being sold: It progressed teh art of fashion narrative and storytelling of the past fashion eras with teh relevance of the times. That’s entirely reliant on hard-earned skills and experience alongside creative talent. The 1950s and 1960s had many freedoms— and that would include freedom from business obligations that the 1990s and 2000s were not privileged to have had. And nowadays, even less (…the Korean publications thrive because they are nearly all advertorials and brand ambassadors that make up the content. While a more artsy, and at times amateur publication like Vogue Adria— which seems to reference the 1960s and 1990s rather blatantly and affectionately, likely still has an uncertain future). After the 2000s, any signs of creative and intellectual progression halted to a dead standstill; with identity-politics representation taking its place. Nevermind exclusivity and individuality of creative expression, but even technical high standards became a dirty word and a canceled concept.
 

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