Chanel Haute Couture S/S 2021 Paris

[LoveFashion25]

The business model is very hard to repeat. Arnault always dreamed about Hermes. He tried few times buy or organised unfriendly takeover used exchange. It was failure. He decided buy Moynat and he wanted creating new Hermes but it is stil niche fashion brand.

Sorry but Arnault would have ruined it somehow like many of the brands he owns! I agree Hermes is hard to repeat do you think its because its a private own business and its over 100 years old? Arnault should focus on making Dior better!

 

[Lola701]

So what do you think they are trying to do with Virgine? Hermes made $6B in sales and they are exclusive.

The job is Virginie is to maintain the Aura of Chanel. I don’t like the word exclusivity in the context of a designer because that’s not the job of a designer. Some decisions can or cannot kill the exclusivity of a brand.
Remember in the early 00’s, John did the « J’adore Dior » t-shirts. Iconic, very successful and despite the high prices at the time, it sold like hotcakes. Unfortunately, it somehow tarnished the exclusivity of the brand. Overtime, the change of direction they suggested to John allowed them to stop producing t-shirts. It took years for Dior to start produce t-shirts in womenswear again...

Ultimately, Hermès is a luxury brand and Chanel is a fashion house. I know globalization and the people of Kering and LVMH made believe that all those brands are just « luxury brands » but it’s not just that. Hermès is more a competitor of Vuitton than it is of Chanel. And that difference is very important because it has an impact from the production to the communication.

When I talk about the aura, it has to do with maintain the desirability of the brand. Those brands are exclusive at their core. Not everybody can buy Chanel. Yes, a lot of people in the world can afford the make-up and perfumes but at each step of the way to Couture, the level of accessibility decrease.

With Chanel then Virginie can still do some lackluster attires and it would be fine since Chanel makes most of their money from their perfumes and makeup then.

Chanel makes as much money from fashion than from Perfumes and Make-up. Chanel is literally two entities that sometimes interacts but that are run separately. There's a reason of why they have added collections over the years. If you pay closely attention to Karl's collections, they were very "commercial" in a sense that it was mostly about Tweed and knitwear. That's what clients went for and despite the outrageous prices (Chanel is more expensive than Hermes for example), people never stopped buying either clothes or bags.

Virginie is not a genius but like MGC she indulges with commercialism. Now, it's logo-a-gogo and very recognizable easy to wear Chanel pieces.

But overtime, it won't be enough because ultimately, Chanel might loose a bit of it aura. Karl reinvented himself and understood the industry because he created that "way of doing". I don't think Virginie will stay at Chanel for 10 years for example. Now, the industry needs to recover from the virus and at one point Chanel will also need that boost of new energy to increase their sales.

 

[LoveFashion25]

The job is Virginie is to maintain the Aura of Chanel. I don’t like the word exclusivity in the context of a designer because that’s not the job of a designer. Some decisions can or cannot kill the exclusivity of a brand.
Remember in the early 00’s, John did the « J’adore Dior » t-shirts. Iconic, very successful and despite the high prices at the time, it sold like hotcakes. Unfortunately, it somehow tarnished the exclusivity of the brand. Overtime, the change of direction they suggested to John allowed them to stop producing t-shirts. It took years for Dior to start produce t-shirts in womenswear again...

Ultimately, Hermès is a luxury brand and Chanel is a fashion house. I know globalization and the people of Kering and LVMH made believe that all those brands are just « luxury brands » but it’s not just that. Hermès is more a competitor of Vuitton than it is of Chanel. And that difference is very important because it has an impact from the production to the communication.

When I talk about the aura, it has to do with maintain the desirability of the brand. Those brands are exclusive at their core. Not everybody can buy Chanel. Yes, a lot of people in the world can afford the make-up and perfumes but at each step of the way to Couture, the level of accessibility decrease.


Chanel makes as much money from fashion than from Perfumes and Make-up. Chanel is literally two entities that sometimes interacts but that are run separately. There's a reason of why they have added collections over the years. If you pay closely attention to Karl's collections, they were very "commercial" in a sense that it was mostly about Tweed and knitwear. That's what clients went for and despite the outrageous prices (Chanel is more expensive than Hermes for example), people never stopped buying either clothes or bags.

Virginie is not a genius but like MGC she indulges with commercialism. Now, it's logo-a-gogo and very recognizable easy to wear Chanel pieces.

But overtime, it won't be enough because ultimately, Chanel might loose a bit of it aura. Karl reinvented himself and understood the industry because he created that "way of doing". I don't think Virginie will stay at Chanel for 10 years for example. Now, the industry needs to recover from the virus and at one point Chanel will also need that boost of new energy to increase their sales.

Virginie is not a genius but like MGC she indulges with commercialism. Now, it's logo-a-gogo and very recognizable easy to wear Chanel pieces.

But overtime, it won't be enough because ultimately, Chanel might loose a bit of it aura. Karl reinvented himself and understood the industry because he created that "way of doing". I don't think Virginie will stay at Chanel for 10 years for example. Now, the industry needs to recover from the virus and at one point Chanel will also need that boost of new energy to increase their sales.

- So you think Chanel will go through a slump?

 

[Lola701]

- So you think Chanel will go through a slump?

Yes, it might be minor and not a long term situation like Prada. But everybody does. Even if it’s not particularly sales, it might be image or a shift in the market ( When Nicolas was approached for Vuitton).

But they are a private company and it will never be known and so, the prestige of the brand will be preserved.

 

[Benn98]

I think it can be preserved until a certain point. In fact I think right now Chanel is only getting the respect and the writeups only because of the brand's prestige, not necessarily because they like what she's doing. You can tell by the way someone writes about something whether they genuinely like/dislike it, or just doing it because it's a chore.

What counts in Chanel's favour is that they have no true competitor. Having Karl for as long as they did really helped cement the brand as the ultimate go-to. He was designer, photographer and marketer while keeping both a classic and contemporary edge to his collections and campaigns. 90% of it is wasn't to my taste, but I can't say it wasn't current.
Dior is storied, but they've gone through way too many iterations and in the process lost and gained and lost a loyal base of buyers and fans. And especially in the current climate, there's always the risk (or hope, if you'll ask tFS) that MGC could leave at any moment.
Prada is....well, need I go any further? How can a brand be prestigious if they partner with Adidas and L'oreal? And I've been reading a lot of these 'paid for' type profiles and editorials about the new partnership where the gist of it is pretty much 'two is better than one' which I find comical because are they essentially saying that the 'one' wasn't 'good enough' to begin with? LOL.
Armani was cool in the 80s/90s and evolved with their audience to the point where I doubt the brand speaks to the current times. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, it's impressive for a brand to beat on their own drum instead of keeping up with the so-called 'kidz' that Phuel always speaks of.
And the problem with Vuitton, Bottega and all the others is that they're too 'of the moment.' Eventually their base who currently obsess so much about 'drops' and 'collabs' will age and move on, but I doubt the brands will move on with them. They'll just sack whoever is the CD and hire a newer, cooler one who can adapt to the future it-demographic. The typical circle of fashion.

So Chanel's timeless prestige will last as long as they can afford to buy influencer press such as the latest VP cover that does the dual job of selling the clothes and selling Virginie through an interview cum editorial cum cover. Without the press positioning them as prestigious they'll instantly slip into irrelevance.

 

[GivenchyHomme]

Chanel can probably ride on Karl's success for at least 2 or 3 more years. Once Chanel implements it's 2021 price increase it will be the beginning of the end. Sooner rather than later customers will begin to notice that the products in the store are lacking that Je ne se quoi, a la Karl. It's going to be an interesting decade for Chanel and Fendi. With that being said, I don't see Chanel RTW or Couture being relevant in the 2020's. You know what they say, "the bigger you are, the harder you fall".

 

[LoveFashion25]

I think it can be preserved until a certain point. In fact I think right now Chanel is only getting the respect and the writeups only because of the brand's prestige, not necessarily because they like what she's doing. You can tell by the way someone writes about something whether they genuinely like/dislike it, or just doing it because it's a chore.

What counts in Chanel's favour is that they have no true competitor. Having Karl for as long as they did really helped cement the brand as the ultimate go-to. He was designer, photographer and marketer while keeping both a classic and contemporary edge to his collections and campaigns. 90% of it is wasn't to my taste, but I can't say it wasn't current.
Dior is storied, but they've gone through way too many iterations and in the process lost and gained and lost a loyal base of buyers and fans. And especially in the current climate, there's always the risk (or hope, if you'll ask tFS) that MGC could leave at any moment.
Prada is....well, need I go any further? How can a brand be prestigious if they partner with Adidas and L'oreal? And I've been reading a lot of these 'paid for' type profiles and editorials about the new partnership where the gist of it is pretty much 'two is better than one' which I find comical because are they essentially saying that the 'one' wasn't 'good enough' to begin with? LOL.
Armani was cool in the 80s/90s and evolved with their audience to the point where I doubt the brand speaks to the current times. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, it's impressive for a brand to beat on their own drum instead of keeping up with the so-called 'kidz' that Phuel always speaks of.
And the problem with Vuitton, Bottega and all the others is that they're too 'of the moment.' Eventually their base who currently obsess so much about 'drops' and 'collabs' will age and move on, but I doubt the brands will move on with them. They'll just sack whoever is the CD and hire a newer, cooler one who can adapt to the future it-demographic. The typical circle of fashion.

So Chanel's timeless prestige will last as long as they can afford to buy influencer press such as the latest VP cover that does the dual job of selling the clothes and selling Virginie through an interview cum editorial cum cover. Without the press positioning them as prestigious they'll instantly slip into irrelevance.

So Chanel's timeless prestige will last as long as they can afford to buy influencer press such as the latest VP cover that does the dual job of selling the clothes and selling Virginie through an interview cum editorial cum cover. Without the press positioning them as prestigious they'll instantly slip into irrelevance.
- This can happen sooner than later tbh.

 

[LoveFashion25]

Chanel can probably ride on Karl's success for at least 2 or 3 more years. Once Chanel implements it's 2021 price increase it will be the beginning of the end. Sooner rather than later customers will begin to notice that the products in the store are lacking that Je ne se quoi, a la Karl. It's going to be an interesting decade for Chanel and Fendi. With that being said, I don't see Chanel RTW or Couture being relevant in the 2020's. You know what they say, "the bigger you are, the harder you fall".

Chanel can probably ride on Karl's success for at least 2 or 3 more years. Once Chanel implements it's 2021 price increase it will be the beginning of the end. Sooner rather than later customers will begin to notice that the products in the store are lacking that Je ne se quoi, a la Karl. It's going to be an interesting decade for Chanel and Fendi. With that being said, I don't see Chanel RTW or Couture being relevant in the 2020's. You know what they say, "the bigger you are, the harder you fall".

This will be sad if it does end up being true but honestly I'm not feeling that Je ne se quoi today so I end up looking through pics of old Chanel from the 90s.

 

[perhydrol]

Chanel can probably ride on Karl's success for at least 2 or 3 more years. Once Chanel implements it's 2021 price increase it will be the beginning of the end. Sooner rather than later customers will begin to notice that the products in the store are lacking that Je ne se quoi, a la Karl. It's going to be an interesting decade for Chanel and Fendi. With that being said, I don't see Chanel RTW or Couture being relevant in the 2020's. You know what they say, "the bigger you are, the harder you fall".

I'd say Fendi's position is much more endangered. Clients can order haute couture looks from the collections designed by Karl for Chanel. Thank God, because Virginie is as humorless as her fake wedding reception from the latest show. That's why Fendi might be doomed, it doesn't sell archives and the connection with Karl's aesthetic will disappear soon. The brand relies solely on the success (or lack of success) of Kim's designs.

 

[Lola701]

Chanel can probably ride on Karl's success for at least 2 or 3 more years. Once Chanel implements it's 2021 price increase it will be the beginning of the end. Sooner rather than later customers will begin to notice that the products in the store are lacking that Je ne se quoi, a la Karl. It's going to be an interesting decade for Chanel and Fendi. With that being said, I don't see Chanel RTW or Couture being relevant in the 2020's. You know what they say, "the bigger you are, the harder you fall".

I think it’s going to be very interesting to see how things will turn out once real audiences will be authorized to attend shows. What was for me one of the most interesting part of Chanel shows was seeing those real Karl devotee who bought full looks with novelty bags each season. It was sometimes funny, tacky or just outrageous but it was also a testament to Karl’s success.
Personally, while I think some pieces are actually cute, I have somehow lost interest in Chanel’s fashion and haven’t purchased anything from any Virginie’s collection... And I’m not a big spender. So I can only imagine those devotee clients.
Chanel is like Celine now, the perfumes (beauty and jewelry) are the only thing worth buying.

 

[LoveFashion25]

I think it’s going to be very interesting to see how things will turn out once real audiences will be authorized to attend shows. What was for me one of the most interesting part of Chanel shows was seeing those real Karl devotee who bought full looks with novelty bags each season. It was sometimes funny, tacky or just outrageous but it was also a testament to Karl’s success.
Personally, while I think some pieces are actually cute, I have somehow lost interest in Chanel’s fashion and haven’t purchased anything from any Virginie’s collection... And I’m not a big spender. So I can only imagine those devotee clients.
Chanel is like Celine now, the perfumes (beauty and jewelry) are the only thing worth buying.

Have you attended a Chanel show when Karl was the designer?
I agree I only want to buy their perfume and lipstick thats all. I want that Je Ne Sais Quoi that Chanel has

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Disclaimer this is all speculation as I am not a rich Chanel client lol, but I am a bit curious about how this newer Chanel will work out because I am seeing more of the newer couture customers being open on the internet about their status. They have a different mindset than the older crowd. Of course pre social media there was still a pecking order and showing off etc. but this behavior was more closed off to only circles of wealthy people. They were pretty private and didn’t really interact socially with regular people. Clients’ styles and purchase preferences seemed more personal and influenced a bit differently. Social media really brings out this hunger for fame and attention especially among the younger crowd. I am seeing a lot more nouveau riche Chinese clients being open on instagram showing off new couture season after season. They aren’t restricted to just impressing their own crowd with their purchases because there is this new element of being able to show off to the whole world. It seems to me like their purchase decisions are becoming more and more influenced by their opinion on the global aura rather than the actual product. I mean to us season after season these new Chanel collections just continue flop, but if the reason this new crowd of clients is buying it is just solely because it’s Chanel, this new stuff might just stick?? I mean look at Dior. That sh*t is selling non stop and it sucks so bad, and it has a lower prestige than Chanel does IMO. I don’t know y’all

 

[LoveFashion25]

Disclaimer this is all speculation as I am not a rich Chanel client lol, but I am a bit curious about how this newer Chanel will work out because I am seeing more of the newer couture customers being open on the internet about their status. They have a different mindset than the older crowd. Of course pre social media there was still a pecking order and showing off etc. but this behavior was more closed off to only circles of wealthy people. They were pretty private and didn’t really interact socially with regular people. Clients’ styles and purchase preferences seemed more personal and influenced a bit differently. Social media really brings out this hunger for fame and attention especially among the younger crowd. I am seeing a lot more nouveau riche Chinese clients being open on instagram showing off new couture season after season. They aren’t restricted to just impressing their own crowd with their purchases because there is this new element of being able to show off to the whole world. It seems to me like their purchase decisions are becoming more and more influenced by their opinion on the global aura rather than the actual product. I mean to us season after season these new Chanel collections just continue flop, but if the reason this new crowd of clients is buying it is just solely because it’s Chanel, this new stuff might just stick?? I mean look at Dior. That sh*t is selling non stop and it sucks so bad, and it has a lower prestige than Chanel does IMO. I don’t know y’all

I do believe that the nouveau rich are kind of imo ruining the appeal of Chanel. Like you said the one's who could afford it weren't as show off about it. I was reading this article on Princess Diana wearing Chanel and imo a lot of her outfits Karl made for her but it didn't have the Chanel logo and it was beautiful as well. She would also wear her favorite the Chanel Diana bag but wasn't a show off about it. Seeing those pictures compared to now its like night and day!

 

[disco54]

With Virginie and Maria Grazia, Paris fashion has become a race to the bottom. This was depressing to watch, each of Virginie's shows affirms the genius of Karl Lagerfeld and I should have appreciated him more when he was alive.

 

[Leveticus]

I’m ashamed to say I felt the same when Galliano was ousted from Dior. I was eager to see someone else’s take on the brand as I felt some of his shows were almost parody-like, but the newcomers have really shown how professional Galliano was at staying true to Dior’s ethos.

The Chanel shows have been horrible and old fashioned in the worst ways. The pictures of this show were enough for me, I didn’t need or want to see it moving in real time.

There’s a real lack of polish and/or softness in her work and I hate the way many pieces are cut, the result does not look luxurious, it’s very high street like they’re cut on the larger side to fit between sizes.

I also do wonder if she panics at the last minute and changes things around as some of the styling is beyond my comprehension.