Chanel S/S 2023 Paris

[Caffeine]

MB is not making enough tweeds

Correct. In addition, he has not done a single piece with Lesage tweed.

 

[Lola701]

Correct. In addition, he has not done a single piece with Lesage tweed.

What were the tweeds in the SS 2026 and the Prefall then?

 

[Monsieur Cristobal]

View attachment 1218058
VOGUE RUNWAY

With a boxier jacket, that is already Matthieu.

 

[Caffeine]

What were the tweeds in the SS 2026 and the Prefall then?

I don't know. I didn't see the lesage braided tweed. Would love to see detailed pics if you came across any.

 

[THD96]

I don't know. I didn't see the lesage braided tweed. Would love to see detailed pics if you came across any.

I was quite confused when you said that because isn't it the whole point of Métier d’art to showcase the craftsmanship of all the ateliers that Chanel bought, so not using Lésage is just illogical.
I don't think Wertheimer is happy when their designer is not using the assets that they spent a lot of time acquiring.

 

[Caffeine]

I was quite confused when you said that because isn't it the whole point of Métier d’art to showcase the craftsmanship of all the ateliers that Chanel bought, so not using Lésage is just illogical.
I don't think Wertheimer is happy when their designer is not using the assets that they spent a lot of time acquiring.

Means the ribboned tweed.
Are there any?

Ribboned tweed jackets are generally priced a notch higher. Typically there are a couple of them in pre-collections, and a few more on runway collections. I don't recalls seeing any in the latest two.

 

[Caffeine]

Example:



This is obviously technically incorrect, but SAs generally refer this type as "lesage tweed".

Even "fantasy" tweeds made by Lesage are not called "lesage" by the SAs.

In recent collections, this type of tweed jackets were generally >10k whereas others (there were exceptions) were priced under 10k.

 

[Lola701]

Means the ribboned tweed.
Are there any?

Ribboned tweed jackets are generally priced a notch higher. Typically there are a couple of them in pre-collections, and a few more on runway collections. I don't recalls seeing any in the latest two.

Clearly he is challenging Lesage through new techniques also.
Chanel has a new designer. Things will change. You can’t have everything half way through….

This is Lesage tweed for 2026.

I have all the Chanel from the past. I don’t need to hold on to that for the future.

You don’t like the new Lesage tweed and it’s OK. You have to be ok with the fact that you won’t like anything that Blazy does because you expect him to do things the way you was used to…

Lesage will continue to develop Chanel tweed as long as the brand does it. And they are doing tweed for every show btw so you never know what it may look like.

 

[Caffeine]

This is one of the Chanel coded material.

So you agree with me and you haven't seen them either.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Clearly he is challenging Lesage through new techniques also.
Chanel has a new designer. Things will change. You can’t have everything half way through….

This is Lesage tweed for 2026.

I have all the Chanel from the past. I don’t need to hold on to that for the future.

You don’t like the new Lesage tweed and it’s OK. You have to be ok with the fact that you won’t like anything that Blazy does because you expect him to do things the way you was used to…

Lesage will continue to develop Chanel tweed as long as the brand does it. And they are doing tweed for every show btw so you never know what it may look like.

The pressing question for me is how much the customers of Chanel respond to 'novelty' on so many levels. A lot of luxury brands today install designers at the creative helm with a POV and taste that I believe isn't exactly easy on the eye of a woman who just wants conventionally pretty clothes. What people like Blazy, Lee and especially Demna are designing feels very specific to a younger age demographic - Whereas a designer like Hedi stands for a design that plays quite openly with the appeal of familiarity.

 

[Lola701]

The pressing question for me is how much the customers of Chanel respond to 'novelty' on so many levels. A lot of luxury brands today install designers at the creative helm with a POV and taste that I believe isn't exactly easy on the eye of a woman who just wants conventionally pretty clothes. What people like Blazy, Lee and especially Demna are designing feels very specific to a younger age demographic - Whereas a designer like Hedi stands for a design that plays quite openly with the appeal of familiarity.

I don’t know if even my experience would be that much of a great representation.
I started to buy Chanel as a very young adult so because I embraced it I went trough the changes. The way Karl designed jackets and constructed clothes was totally different in 2018 than it was in 2006. I can only imagine the women who started to buy in the 90’s. I have jackets from 2003 and the cut is already totally different from 2006.
With Chanel there’s a sense of familiarity so this is what I got from Blazy so far. I’m interested to see the collection as whole. Yes there’s the pre-collection but also the commercial version of the runway.

When Virginie joined I was intrigued. I wanted to buy the long red cardigan from her resort (now I regret not getting it) but I wanted to love the collections to get it. Ultimately I gave up because I didn’t found the collections exciting, and even in stores, there were nice things but I have already 3 black tweed suits, 2 white suits, a few tweed dresses, a lot of jackets and coats. I re wear my stuff and so even more with a house like Chanel, I only care about the special piece. And the accessories weren’t my cup of tea. Even Karl sometimes I only bought a blouse with a seasonal print. The clothes were more interesting to buy at Fendi despite being great at Chanel.

I think at Dior, the customer is used to changes now. And the customer seems to react well no? MGC made Dior more casual. Something it hasn’t been since 2008.

With Hedi I don’t know. I will say that his strength is that he is coming with menswear. So because he is adding that, he has that male customer that is always satisfied and always coming.

I liked a lot of things he did at Celine. At one point I was tempted after seeing Carine Roitfeld with a double breasted blazer to buy one but I didn’t bought anything. I was a Phoebe customer.

I didn’t liked his Saint Laurent but I ended up buying a few pieces because they were very fun. But I feel like Saint Laurent was already dying in the fashion department when he took over. YSL started to decline in RTW around 2010 and the clientele was bit bourgeois. So I don’t think they care about losing one to get another one.

But the first few seasons of Hedi at Céline weren’t easy. The instant success announced took some time to arrive. He made the terrible but great pivot with the TikTok era and switched things over.

I liked his last collection for Celine. But it wasn’t for me when I went to try stuff.

Hedi is coming with the familiarity of his aesthetic. Others designers still have to find ways to insert themselves into a narrative.

Ultimately he is a good merchandiser so his signature bomber jacket would work wherever you are because we have internalized that it’s Hedi and we are liking it for it.
The fact that we can already imagine him as a CD of brands that are totally different knowing how he would operate is more of a testament of his aesthetic.

And I don’t think everything has to be done with the prism of the client who buys things. Using Hedi as an example. He wasn’t afraid to shock the clients, to maybe loose clients. And it worked.

The people who put Celine to the 800M when Phoebe left weren’t probably the same who elevated Hedi’s to 2 billions. It took time but he eventually discontinued a lot of Phoebe’s hits.

So yes people are familiar with his aesthetic but also with the shock treatment that comes with it. But again, when you are introducing new categories, it can help balance the losses.

 

[tricotineacetat]

I don’t know if even my experience would be that much of a great representation.
I started to buy Chanel as a very young adult so because I embraced it I went trough the changes. The way Karl designed jackets and constructed clothes was totally different in 2018 than it was in 2006. I can only imagine the women who started to buy in the 90’s. I have jackets from 2003 and the cut is already totally different from 2006.
With Chanel there’s a sense of familiarity so this is what I got from Blazy so far. I’m interested to see the collection as whole. Yes there’s the pre-collection but also the commercial version of the runway.

When Virginie joined I was intrigued. I wanted to buy the long red cardigan from her resort (now I regret not getting it) but I wanted to love the collections to get it. Ultimately I gave up because I didn’t found the collections exciting, and even in stores, there were nice things but I have already 3 black tweed suits, 2 white suits, a few tweed dresses, a lot of jackets and coats. I re wear my stuff and so even more with a house like Chanel, I only care about the special piece. And the accessories weren’t my cup of tea. Even Karl sometimes I only bought a blouse with a seasonal print. The clothes were more interesting to buy at Fendi despite being great at Chanel.

I think at Dior, the customer is used to changes now. And the customer seems to react well no? MGC made Dior more casual. Something it hasn’t been since 2008.

With Hedi I don’t know. I will say that his strength is that he is coming with menswear. So because he is adding that, he has that male customer that is always satisfied and always coming.

I liked a lot of things he did at Celine. At one point I was tempted after seeing Carine Roitfeld with a double breasted blazer to buy one but I didn’t bought anything. I was a Phoebe customer.

I didn’t liked his Saint Laurent but I ended up buying a few pieces because they were very fun. But I feel like Saint Laurent was already dying in the fashion department when he took over. YSL started to decline in RTW around 2010 and the clientele was bit bourgeois. So I don’t think they care about losing one to get another one.

But the first few seasons of Hedi at Céline weren’t easy. The instant success announced took some time to arrive. He made the terrible but great pivot with the TikTok era and switched things over.

I liked his last collection for Celine. But it wasn’t for me when I went to try stuff.

Hedi is coming with the familiarity of his aesthetic. Others designers still have to find ways to insert themselves into a narrative.

Ultimately he is a good merchandiser so his signature bomber jacket would work wherever you are because we have internalized that it’s Hedi and we are liking it for it.
The fact that we can already imagine him as a CD of brands that are totally different knowing how he would operate is more of a testament of his aesthetic.

And I don’t think everything has to be done with the prism of the client who buys things. Using Hedi as an example. He wasn’t afraid to shock the clients, to maybe loose clients. And it worked.

The people who put Celine to the 800M when Phoebe left weren’t probably the same who elevated Hedi’s to 2 billions. It took time but he eventually discontinued a lot of Phoebe’s hits.

So yes people are familiar with his aesthetic but also with the shock treatment that comes with it. But again, when you are introducing new categories, it can help balance the losses.

For me it's less about Hedi or Blazy in particular and more about what drives RTW sales for those houses really - Such as relevance to a younger age demographic, or putting clothes on the runway with maximum editorial impact, but that don't translate to what the customer will find in the stores.

I must say I always found it a suspicious practice when the presented looks undergo heavy modification then to translate into polite 'boutique-friendly' clothes that barely resemble what appears in the ad campaigns and shows - By comparison, what someone like Haider shows is 1:1 what Tom Ford's online store will stock, the same with a lot of Hedi's collections.

Ultimately, when I look at these two designers, they make clothes that don't require an acquired taste to understand and like.

 

[Lola701]

For me it's less about Hedi or Blazy in particular and more about what drives RTW sales for those houses really - Such as relevance to a younger age demographic, or putting clothes on the runway with maximum editorial impact, but that don't translate to what the customer will find in the stores.

I must say I always found it a suspicious practice when the presented looks undergo heavy modification then to translate into polite 'boutique-friendly' clothes that barely resemble what appears in the ad campaigns and shows - By comparison, what someone like Haider shows is 1:1 what Tom Ford's online store will stock, the same with a lot of Hedi's collections.

Ultimately, when I look at these two designers, they make clothes that don't require an acquired taste to understand and like.

Chanel RTW for the past 10 years has been about 80% tweed and knitwear. So far I don’t think the runway collection was so far from that.
But you know how those collections are extended. A skirt design can become a dress and a top. A printed top can become a blouse. That’s why I said I’m very curious to see the déclinaisons of the runway show.

But I think they will figure out things regarding their demographic throughout the year and that will probably influence their buys for specific stores regarding the runway shows. But I have always felt like Chanel still operates in the sameness of offering from stores to stores whether by Karl or Virginie.

I have never felt like Chanel had a difficulty reaching a younger audience despite the high prices but I feel like it’s a phenomenon we will in times no?

Blazy’s Chanel will experience a great deal of curiosity for the first year. So I feel like even with Dior (those are probably the two main beneficiaries of the whole change last season) a lot of people will be curious to look, people will buy because it’s new and then we will have a real picture of the whole thing.

In some ways I agree that they don’t make clothes that requires a particular taste. Chanel and Dior are so big that their aesthetic are kind of common. It’s not Rick Owens either.

Virginie Mouzat said that fabulous thing about Chanel « c’est du tres accessible très cher ». It can be a safe taste, it can be what you make out of it. Nevertheless there’s a certain idea of sophistication that is appealing.

But I know a lot of women who don’t like Chanel at all as an aesthetic. They liked the aura of the brand, they would buy a bag but never touch on the clothes.

 

[imjustken]

And I don’t think everything has to be done with the prism of the client who buys things. Using Hedi as an example. He wasn’t afraid to shock the clients, to maybe loose clients. And it worked.

The people who put Celine to the 800M when Phoebe left weren’t probably the same who elevated Hedi’s to 2 billions. It took time but he eventually discontinued a lot of Phoebe’s hits.

So yes people are familiar with his aesthetic but also with the shock treatment that comes with it. But again, when you are introducing new categories, it can help balance the losses.

But 'the shock treatment' with Hedi is just him taking the liberty to do what he likes, wherever he is. If you hire him, you know what he's gonna do, whether that means changing the brand completely or not changing it at all.

If he was working for The Kooples or Zadig & Voltaire, he probably wouldn't change a thing. His point is not really to shock anyone but he's willing to take the risk.

I'm sure he didn't discontinue Phoebe's hits because he wanted to shock the Philophiles but because they didn't match his aesthetic.

He ended up generating 2 billions because his style has mass appeal. If it generated 2 million, he would probably still do the same. It's about him, his taste, his interest and he's shockingly loyal to it.

I can't think of any other designer who has done what he did which is basically being so intent on one style throughout the houses he was hired by that it became his style. Everybody else adapts but him.

The only surprise I've seen from him was his last show for Celine which was Chanel verbatim. There was no trace of rock there. It was only chic. He probably has a soft spot for the brand and I bet he wouldn't have brought any of his usual punk rock attitude.

 

[Lola701]

But 'the shock treatment' with Hedi is just him taking the liberty to do what he likes, wherever he is. If you hire him, you know what he's gonna do, whether that means changing the brand completely or not changing it at all.

If he was working for The Kooples or Zadig & Voltaire, he probably wouldn't change a thing. His point is not really to shock anyone but he's willing to take the risk.

I'm sure he didn't discontinue Phoebe's hits because he wanted to shock the Philophiles but because they didn't match his aesthetic.

He ended up generating 2 billions because his style has mass appeal. If it generated 2 million, he would probably still do the same. It's about him, his taste, his interest and he's shockingly loyal to it.

The shock treatment is for the customers. It’s a « mal nécessaire » in order for him to fulfill his aesthetic but ultimately, I don’t think he cares about losing clients or not because the cycle of fashion means that you will get others.

The real gamble was really for LVMH with Céline though more than at Saint Laurent (everybody had enough at Saint Laurent).

But yes it was a risk because the change was drastic but it was a safe choice because they knew the man and had plans in expanding their offer.
They didn’t anticipate the reaction to his first Celine show and how it would have impacted his beginning. But still he rise! ☺️☺️

 

[imjustken]

The shock treatment is for the customers. It’s a « mal nécessaire » in order for him to fulfill his aesthetic but ultimately, I don’t think he cares about losing clients or not because the cycle of fashion means that you will get others.

The real gamble was really for LVMH with Céline though more than at Saint Laurent (everybody had enough at Saint Laurent).

But yes it was a risk because the change was drastic but it was a safe choice because they knew the man and had plans in expanding their offer.
They didn’t anticipate the reaction to his first Celine show and how it would have impacted his beginning. But still he rise! ☺️☺️

But the Phoebe Philo aesthetic, even though it's extremely popular now to the point where everybody is doing it or has done it at some point, remains somewhat niche in idea : tailored minimalism, clothes that draw from classic menswear adapted for women by a woman and inspired by art. It's not an easy pitch, it doesn't have as clear cultural references as rock chic, Hedi's aesthetic. So he shocked Celine's clients but he didn't do it with a new aesthetic. The medication was already known. There's the clientele a brand has and then there's the clientele a whole aesthetic has or can have. Rock chic is probably even bigger than 2 billion. It was a safe shock treatment because of how popular rock is and how appealing chic is in mainstream fashion.