copyrighting

[Amani]

Intellectual Property Law and Fashion (France etc)

I created a thread about a month ago stating that I wanted to set up in Paris.

Well I am in Paris now and have got a meeting with Fédération Française Du Prét À Porter Feminin.

I want to protect my work before I go to this meeting, but have no idea about intellectual property law in France. I was speaking to a friend of mine here who is a (british) corporate lawyer and he said he is not sure that copyright law exists in France the way it exists in the UK or Australia (which is where I am from).

Has anyone got any idea about this? I need to protect the idea for the label itself as well as the actual designs.

Can anyone lead me into the right direction?

Thank you!

 

[Lena]

you need a lawyer for this amani
in general dont worry, trust me, the Federation has more important things to do than stealing your -or anyone's- work

 

[Amani]

Yeah I kinda realised, but I was told to cover all my bases.

I'd still like to hear other people's experiences.

 

[Jenner8675309]

Wow! This topic is right up my alley. I do copyright law for a living. I work in US law, so I can answer any questions regarding that, but for French IP law try WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization) info on France at:

http://www.wipo.int/about-ip/en/ipworldwide/pdf/fr.pdf

Its a good place to start for IP with any country www.wipo.org.

Any question for US law, feel free to pass them my way or check out www.copyright.gov.

Also, I reccommend checking out information regarding the Berne Convention. Google can help you with that.

 

[TheGloryOfThe80s]

I've always heard you could not copyright designs or prints. Thats why you see fake burberry nova plaid being sold in department stores legally. Though, you can copyright a label, and a print if it has a copyrighted logo (for example, LV Monogram).

Allen Schwartz ? for ABS, always copies runway looks, as closely (and as cheaply) as possible. You can't copyright a design, thats why its always important for designers to keep changing.

Thats US Law, so I don't know how much that helps : ) But, I'd definitely like to hear more about this.

 

[Lena]

great input Jenner and Glory, welcome to tFS

 

[TheGloryOfThe80s]

Thanks

 

[Jenner8675309]

Actually under US Copyright law names and most logos (such as LV) are not protected. Names and logos fall under trademark law (see Circular 34 at www.copyright.gov). Now, while useful items (such as clothing and purses, see Circ 31 at aforementioned site) are not protected under copyright, there is a possibility the design on the fabric may be considered original art and fall under copyright protection. Now, if its a random pattern, machine made, it won't fly, but original art (again fabric or your original drawings of your work) can be registered in the US Copyright Office. They are registered on a daily basis. You can find complete information on visual arts in Circ 40.


Side note- none of this is to be considered legal advice. Just had to throw that out there!

 

[pidpoid]

Trademarks and copyright are only as strong as your desire to take legal action to protect them. If you don't act to protect it in all instances then it could be said that you don't care abouot people copying it. Therefore, unless you've got a lot of time and money on your hands (or an insurance policy that covers your legal costs in these matters) you may have to mug it off and carry on designing great stuff.

 

[faust]

Actually under US Copyright law names and most logos (such as LV) are not protected. Names and logos fall under trademark law (see Circular 34 at www.copyright.gov). Now, while useful items (such as clothing and purses, see Circ 31 at aforementioned site) are not protected under copyright, there is a possibility the design on the fabric may be considered original art and fall under copyright protection. Now, if its a random pattern, machine made, it won't fly, but original art (again fabric or your original drawings of your work) can be registered in the US Copyright Office. They are registered on a daily basis. You can find complete information on visual arts in Circ 40.


Side note- none of this is to be considered legal advice. Just had to throw that out there!

Correct. As a matter of fact Burberry plaid is one of those patterns. They've succeeded in the courtroom before.

Well, people, you just opened up a topic which I was going to open tonight myself . With mods permission, I would like to post my term paper in this thread to propell this discussion further. The paper is big, and I don't have a website to host it, it'd take up about 10 posts to put the whole thing up, so let me know if it's Ok. The paper is anti-copyright, so it would be definitely interesting to hear the other side (Jennifer), as well as anyone else who wants to comment on the paper and on the copyright in fashion design in general.

To the original poster, I recommend (besides hiring a lawyer, of course) picking up a book called Design Law in Europe by Uma Suthersanen. It's not a textbook per se, but it's a definitive guide.

 

[ilonlippa]

In France, there's only one place where you can protect your designs, trademarks, logos, etc... It's called INPI (National Institute of Intellectual Property)
the website is: www.inpi.fr

P.S: Don't take the Federation Du pret-à-porter too seriously... They do not understand anything about fashion! And they are so old fashioned...
Who is your contact? Mr Lamoureux? I didn't know they could speak English!

 

[Amani]

Thanks to everyone who replied There is a lot for me to work with.

 

[Jenner8675309]

If you are able to post it (anywhere) I would LOVE to read it, my personal views are what I call "Jeffersonian" aka copyleft so I would def be interested in reading if you are able to post your paper. But in case you couldn't tell, I can give you the other side as well. Comes with the job, you know?

I also reccommend a bookcalled International Copyright by Paul Goldstein. Gives why and how different countries have evolved to where they stand now and about current laws and treaties.

 

[Amani]

I would also be interested in reading this paper.

 

[Lena]

maybe you could post a link/redirect faust?
PM me regarding your paper and we sure will work out a way

thanks for the input people, its a very interesting topic

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Correct. As a matter of fact Burberry plaid is one of those patterns. They've succeeded in the courtroom before.

Well, people, you just opened up a topic which I was going to open tonight myself . With mods permission, I would like to post my term paper in this thread to propell this discussion further. The paper is big, and I don't have a website to host it, it'd take up about 10 posts to put the whole thing up, so let me know if it's Ok. The paper is anti-copyright, so it would be definitely interesting to hear the other side (Jennifer), as well as anyone else who wants to comment on the paper and on the copyright in fashion design in general.

To the original poster, I recommend (besides hiring a lawyer, of course) picking up a book called Design Law in Europe by Uma Suthersanen. It's not a textbook per se, but it's a definitive guide.

www.freewebs.com?

 

[faust]

www.freewebs.com?

I tried it, it's total crap, takes an hour to log in.
Lena I'm about to PM you.

 

[faust]

Ok, I'm going to post my paper up here. It will take about ten posts, so please don't post until I'm finished. I hope it will open up a healthy discussion. Remember, the word "constructive" goes right in front of the word "critisism"

Copyright by Faust. This paper may be quoted in part or in whole. The author only asks to be credited when quoted

Fashion Design - Copyright Free

From writing to science, intellectual property law plays a paramount role in creating and distributing income in the realm of creativity. There is no consensus on whether these laws are beneficial or harmful and there are good arguments on both sides. The latest realm of creativity that intellectual property laws are being imposed on is the realm of fashion design. Even as other segments of the design world, such as furniture, architecture, and graphic design, have been brought under intellectual property regulation, fashion design has been left relatively untouched. For example, a brief examination of Uma Suthersanen’s book Design Law in Europe, in which she advocates copyrighting of design, reveals that out of the hundreds of court cases cited, there are only a few that deal with fashion design1 However, the status of freedom that fashion design has had is slowly changing. There are significant forces in the world of fashion that are increasingly pushing for toughening of already existing intellectually property laws in Europe. In the United States, the same forces are pushing for extension of the intellectual property laws to encompass fashion design. These forces are naturally the big business that is forever pursuing increasing profits, and government agencies that are interested in protecting those profits. Their desire is to extend the intellectual property laws beyond the trademark and textile laws that already exist into copyrighting of garment design and fabric pattern design. Their language in support of strict copyright laws is painfully familiar and parallels that of Hollywood and RIAA; protect the artist (the fashion designer in this case) from impostors that make money off of his art without compensation. After 9/11, the fashion industry giants (supported by Interpol2 nonetheless) started linking copied goods made in East Asia (most notably China and Hong Kong) with terrorism in the Middle East, with very dubious evidence.

 

[faust]

page 2

No matter how far-fetched, the reasons in support of the copyright design such as stated above are naturally disarming because of their instant appeal (protect the artist, do not support terrorism), and those versed in propaganda know it. But before one eagerly agrees to protecting the fashion designer by granting vast intellectual property protection (and it is vast, because today all intellectual property laws are vast), one should pause to consider the drawbacks of such protection. Some of the drawbacks parallel those of the industries that are under the protection of intellectual property law, such as music and writing; others are peculiar to the world of fashion design . Stifling creativity, hoarding of copyrighted designs for the sake of a possibility of collecting rent, decreasing the sphere of public domain, and even decreasing profits for the parties involved in design and production are among these dangers. This paper will try to delineate these problems.
In order to examine other motives (besides protecting the fashion designer) behind the recent pressure for copyrighting of fashion, it is imperative to define what fashion design is, and briefly portray the late history of fashion.
Fashion design can be defined as a final garment, that is created by a designer not for a utilitarian purpose alone, but with a degree of artistic and aesthetic merit that is inherent in the textile, the cut, the shape, the ornaments and embellishments, etc.
In the period following W.W.II and before 1960’s, fashion design was an obscure playground of the rich and powerful elite. There were a few key fashion houses that catered to these select few, such as Chanel, Christian Dior, and Yves St. Laurent. Beyond these maisons, clothing was produced for purely functional purposes. There was a certain glamour surrounding the movie stars and the designers that catered to them. However, the industry was a very far cry from the multibillion profit maker that it is today. In general, the notion of a fashion designer as an artist did not exist.
A gradual change in the fashion world started happening in the 1960’s and 1970’s with the explosion of the music industry. With rapidly emerging rock and punk bands, who quickly sealed their claim to popularity and stardom, there emerged a need for dressing them and their fans in a style that was completely radical. Intellectually and politically charged Zeitgeist of this period demanded fashion as a mode of expression -- an artistic mode. One of the first and the most successful designers that emerged from that era was the British designer Vivienne Westwood. Being deeply involved in the London punk

 

[faust]

page 3

scene, she saw a sphere where she could operate as an artist. In 1971, she opened her first store selling her designs. Challenging, boundary pushing, innovative, provocative, and rebellious, she became a symbol of a fashion designer as a commercially successful artist.
Between the 1960’s and today, the world of fashion design has vastly expanded. It has gradually become a public obsession. Designers today are stars in their own right, on par with Hollywood and pop music celebrities. The fashion industry has become a multi billion dollar business and a serious player in the capitalist economy. London’s mayor, Ken Livingstone said in 2002;

"London’s fashion industry contributed approximately £4.1 billion in output to London’s economy in 2000, which is equivalent to almost one quarter of the total UK fashion industry output. Over 60,000 people were employed in fashion and each worker in London’s fashion industry added £35,000 to the capital's GDP3."

Just like in other industries, the gradual emergence of big business as a dominating force ensued. Today, luxury goods conglomerates such as Louis Vuitton Moet Hennesy and the Gucci Group turn out millions of dollars in profits and are publicly listed on stock exchanges across the world. All major investment banks employ luxury goods industry analysts. As with any business, maximization of profits and satisfaction of the shareholders are the business’s primary concern. Like the publishing industry, the film industry, and the music industry did before, the fashion business turns to law to protect their profits. The most powerful tool available to them is intellectual property law.
To gain the support of the legislative agencies the reasons that the fashion industry produces are compelling at first glance - give the fashion designer his due income by protecting any and all of the garments and the textile patterns from copying. This way the designer will feel financially stable and emotionally gratified, and will continue creating. But, does the designer himself need such extensive protection or is this propaganda agitated by big business? And does this offer protection for some, while infringing on others and on creativity as a whole? To answer this, it is useful to take a look at other creative realms and intellectual property laws that govern them for the purposes of analogy, as well as peculiarities that differentiate the work of a fashion designer from other creative realms.