Cost of Production

[Waldner]

Think of it as art. I mean, you don't complain on the price of a painting just because the canvas and pain costs less than $20.

Design and to a certain degree quality is what you pay for.

 

[Ella]

That's more the case in my opinion with haute couture, the actual design of the Kelly or Birkin bag is nothing extraordinary. Of course you are paying for the quality but my point was that you can get the same craftsmanship from smaller and less well known brands. And since the topic is the cost of production my point is that the cost of Hermès handbags do not reflect the cost of their production.

 

[nqth]

Think of it as art. I mean, you don't complain on the price of a painting just because the canvas and pain costs less than $20.

Design and to a certain degree quality is what you pay for.

Oh come on, you don't sell paintings in hundreds:-)

I aggree that the exception design is priceless. But we are talking about fashion, not art I suppose:-)

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Also many paintings have a lot of labour involved...

 

[ketiak]

Of course, there's always fashion AS art, the reason why I would pay tons for a Surface 2 Air limited edition shirt or one of the those crazy Bless creations. When I pay premium, I have the priviledge of being the curator of someone's genius.

 

[kit]

HERMES is ' French heritage ' , and we all know about tradition , craftsmanship and the ' art ' of the artisan .

( Don't let's get into a spat about the difference between art and craftsmanship , as I'm sure there's a thread here that pursues this chimera exhaustively ) . I just don't think my head could get itself round it , at the moment .

Exclusivity means a waiting list , which means the sin of covetousness
which means clients ready to pay BIG BUCKS for that ' must-have ' item , egged on by scintillating glossy ads in fantasy dream glossies for ' the shiny people ' .

It's all about the display of privilege - the possession of those potent items that supposedly exhibit one's good taste . They are ' off the shelf ' social positioners .

Hermes is a master of the game - perhaps THE past-master , as it has its long history to draw upon .

Don't forget that the ' artistic ' businessman , Tom Ford , played this game brilliantly to ' save ' GUCCI .
ALL the ' must have ' items from his first knockout collection were on waiting lists , deliberately made in strictly limited numbers and kept scarce with women literally fighting each other for items when they became available , and willing to pay truly outrageous prices to secure these fashion ' talismans ' .

You could sell a basic raw material like a used soft drinks can for any absurdly inflated sum , with the right fashion name stamped on it , and there being a limited number thereof .

 

[screenage]

It is so painful hearing how much the clothes actually close, this weekend Browns were able to slash 80% off clothes, ow it hurts. It hurts even more thinking of the hysteria and the way people work there way around clothes, when they aren't as intrinsically valuable as one may think. I have never thought of how much clothes actually cost, make it makes me sick to think how much I'm paying for something, and how much it is worth

 

[screenage]

HERMES is ' French heritage ' , and we all know about tradition , craftsmanship and the ' art ' of the artisan .

( Don't let's get into a spat about the difference between art and craftsmanship , as I'm sure there's a thread here that pursues this chimera exhaustively ) . I just don't think my head could get itself round it , at the moment .

Exclusivity means a waiting list , which means the sin of covetousness
which means clients ready to pay BIG BUCKS for that ' must-have ' item , egged on by scintillating glossy ads in fantasy dream glossies for ' the shiny people ' .

It's all about the display of privilege - the possession of those potent items that supposedly exhibit one's good taste . They are ' off the shelf ' social positioners .

Hermes is a master of the game - perhaps THE past-master , as it has its long history to draw upon .

Don't forget that the ' artistic ' businessman , Tom Ford , played this game brilliantly to ' save ' GUCCI .
ALL the ' must have ' items from his first knockout collection were on waiting lists , deliberately made in strictly limited numbers and kept scarce with women literally fighting each other for items when they became available , and willing to pay truly outrageous prices to secure these fashion ' talismans ' .

You could sell a basic raw material like a used soft drinks can for any absurdly inflated sum , with the right fashion name stamped on it , and there being a limited number thereof .

Hermes's objects are really worked on, alot harder than any others I would say. I read In POP about the whole process of Hermes etc. But I guess fashion is alot about ostentatiousity(sp) to alot of people, and it's alot easier buying a few grand bag than actually pinning the money onto your body

 

[softgrey]

FYI- most or bottom line mark ups to get the wholesale price to sell to a buyer is usually 30% in the mass market biz, which i can not seem to get out of.....

example:
manufacturers cost=fabric, labor, packing, tags, labels, trims, freight, duty, ect= $6

wholesale buyers cost=$6 + (30%)$1.80= $7.80.

Cosumers retail cost= anywhere from $12, $16 Walmart,
Macy's,Tg Maxx,Target ,Jc Penny, Sears $24,
Target, Bloomindales $30,
Barney's, Bergdorff G. $60

Thats been my experience with bigger companies that can give the volume orders
to get such low prices.

Sampling may or may not be free. I know it can be very costly for smaller businesses.

thank you clay...
that sounds a lot closer to the formula that i am familiar with from my days as a buyer...

 

[softgrey]

Oh come on, you don't sell paintings in hundreds:-)

I aggree that the exception design is priceless. But we are talking about fashion, not art I suppose:-)

i love it!!...
no...a t-shirt design is NOT the same as a work of art...
not on any level...

that was good nqth...

but i actually quite like the design of a birkin...
so i WOULD be paying for the design as well as the craftsmanship...
a 'timeless' design is one of the most difficult things in the world to come up with...
and THAT, to me, is the true mark of GENIUS...

 

[Ella]

Hermes's objects are really worked on, alot harder than any others I would say. I read In POP about the whole process of Hermes etc. But I guess fashion is alot about ostentatiousity(sp) to alot of people, and it's alot easier buying a few grand bag than actually pinning the money onto your body

Exactly. The economic term for them is Veblen goods, goods which you buy for ostentatious reasons, and if the price of them would fall then there wouldn't be as much demand because people mostly buy Hermès handbags to show off how much money they have...

 

[kit]

HERMES is ' French heritage ' , and we all know about tradition , craftsmanship and the ' art ' of the artisan .

( Don't let's get into a spat about the difference between art and craftsmanship , as I'm sure there's a thread here that pursues this chimera exhaustively ) . I just don't think my head could get itself round it , at the moment .

Exclusivity means a waiting list , which means the sin of covetousness
which means clients ready to pay BIG BUCKS for that ' must-have ' item , egged on by scintillating glossy ads in fantasy dream glossies for ' the shiny people ' .

It's all about the display of privilege - the possession of those potent items that supposedly exhibit one's good taste . They are ' off the shelf ' social positioners .

Hermes is a master of the game - perhaps THE past-master , as it has its long history to draw upon .

Don't forget that the ' artistic ' businessman , Tom Ford , played this game brilliantly to ' save ' GUCCI .
ALL the ' must have ' items from his first knockout collection were on waiting lists , deliberately made in strictly limited numbers and kept scarce with women literally fighting each other for items when they became available , and willing to pay truly outrageous prices to secure these fashion ' talismans ' .

You could sell a basic raw material like a used soft drinks can for any absurdly inflated sum , with the right fashion name stamped on it , and there being a limited number thereof .

I was searching for the word ' aspirational ' in the above .
NOT a crime in my book , but allied with lack of intrinsic taste aspiration can lead to the ' chav ' ......................

 

[screenage]

Exactly. The economic term for them is Veblen goods, goods which you buy for ostentatious reasons, and if the price of them would fall then there wouldn't be as much demand because people mostly buy Hermès handbags to show off how much money they have...

Ooo new word (Veblen as in Thorstein? (I really should know considering I'm aiming to get into LSE))- If it's not bad enough having an Hermes bag, I saw this girl outside selfridges who was walking with her bag open just so that you could see Hermes where the Flap was open, that was, just incase you couldn't tell it was an Hermes.

 

[nqth]

Thanks Softgrey:-)

I am wondering how much the very first Hermes bag cost when they started the company. And how much they would cost now if they were on sale:-)

Actually you pay for the grand, "established", timeless design and great tradition of craftmanship, as much as for a legend.

But a lot of people are buying a "membership" I guess:-)

 

[softgrey]

lots of good points here...
aspirational...yes
membership...yes
ostentatious ...yes

exclusivity=desirablity...yes

but the birkin is at least a beautiful bag...
it's not some logo'd nightmarish chavtastic monstrosity ...
like some vuittons and diors...
now THAT'S the definition of ostentatious, membership driven, aspirational consumerism...

because there you don't even have the quality...
just a big FAT LOGO'D MESS>>>

and those poor people who fall into the trap and spend exhorbitant ammounts of $$$ on these hideous creations...
are inadvertently proclaiming to the world just how sad and desperate and insecure they truly are...

 

[tott]

You tell it like it is!

 

[softgrey]

don't i always?...

 

[Ella]

Ooo new word (Veblen as in Thorstein? (I really should know considering I'm aiming to get into LSE))- If it's not bad enough having an Hermes bag, I saw this girl outside selfridges who was walking with her bag open just so that you could see Hermes where the Flap was open, that was, just incase you couldn't tell it was an Hermes.

Yep, named after the economist. Good luck with LSE! I was going to apply this year but ended up not applying to the U.K. after all...

softgrey, I agree with you about the Birkin not being "some logo'd nightmarish chavtastic monstrosity" but I just find it boring, the design is nothing eyecatching to someone who doesn't know the value of it.

 

[kit]

lots of good points here...
aspirational...yes
membership...yes
ostentatious ...yes

exclusivity=desirablity...yes

but the birkin is at least a beautiful bag...
it's not some logo'd nightmarish chavtastic monstrosity ...
like some vuittons and diors...
now THAT'S the definition of ostentatious, membership driven, aspirational consumerism...

because there you don't even have the quality...
just a big FAT LOGO'D MESS>>>

and those poor people who fall into the trap and spend exhorbitant ammounts of $$$ on these hideous creations...
are inadvertently proclaiming to the world just how sad and desperate and insecure they truly are...

Spot on .

There's recently been a series on British TV about a famous chef who having spent a year in France has now opened up a chic restaurant on the South Coast of Devon .

He has a huge family and a ' dolly ' wife who sported at least two different Birkins throughout the series .

As the programme was about the crippling cost of basic raw materials to provide the best of food , and the imminence of financial failure , I thought the extravagance of two Birkins a little ironic to say the LEAST .

What makes me REALLY nauseous and sticks in my craw is to see Victoria Beckham with her endless number of Hermes bags in all colours and styles .

Chavtastic - the epitome of..............

 

[PrinceOfCats]

Exactly. The economic term for them is Veblen goods, goods which you buy for ostentatious reasons, and if the price of them would fall then there wouldn't be as much demand because people mostly buy Hermès handbags to show off how much money they have...

Hah, I'm revising Veblen and Giffen goods at the moment...