Dongqi "Dylan" Xue

[fashiont914]

I mean what a loaded statement Prymasquous.
You think her agency cut her hair because they are worried but also because they might have just wanted to. Are you trying to highjack her page to promote the models you like? You say you love her than only write how disappointed, concerned, worried you are. Then post your support for other Asian models on their pages.

Seems you are trying to put her down considering she is one the few Asian girls with blue chip followers. Only her agency hows what coming out on her. How do you know she didn't shoot US Vogue already?

 

[fashiont914]

Pop magazine

PH: HARLEY WEIR
STYLIST:VANESSA WEIR

Source: POP MAGAZINE - scanned by me

 

[Prymasquous]

You think her agency cut her hair because they are worried but also because they might have just wanted to.

You're right. My statement was presumptuous and wasn't necessary.

Though, I still stand by what I think for the cause of this change. Won't elaborate as that will bore you and I don't have proof. I guess you're aware that there are more and more Chinese/Asian girls as each season passes. The landscape for these girls is even more competitive than ever. I might come from a bad light, but if anyone whose been in fashion and knows how fickle the industry is for models, would know how that goes for the Asian models (and other MOC). Perhaps it's my acuteness that led me to say that. But that's the truth. And I don't mean to pit one against another.

Either way still speculate Dylan's mgmt. made the cautious decision to strategically cut her hair to differentiate herself from the pack and perhaps 'remarketing' herself. I mean that's another assumption but will bet my money as we all know how this goes... every once in a while models change up their image/look to attract attention or/and prospects (whether it's good or bad, all do it for their reasons, especially if we're talking about specific models and their careers - Natasha was perceived better as she was blonde; Aymeline going blonde was debatable, she didn't necessarily regain her ground compare when she was brunette; Anja 'reinvented' herself when she had the pixie/bob and booked jobs after jobs; etc.). That's the usual perception/message when one does something, in this case, Dylan shortened her hair. You know, they're trying to fix something...

Furthermore we're talking about Dylan, a girl who's still relatively a new face and she's only in her third season once SS16 comes. It's not necessary to cut her hair at this stage in her career. (And no I'm not just saying this because I prefer her longer hair.) Really, she doesn't need to.

she is one the few Asian girls with blue chip followers.

Am I the only one who doesn't see it that way? I don't follow. What "blue-chip followers" are you talking about?

If you're referring to her showlist (or Prada slot) specifically, then I'll agree but only to an extent. If Dylan continues to walk those shows, then great! That's what we want to see. But that's the whole point... for new faces, their runway profile is supposed to translate onto editorial work. That's usually the formula. Where are these high-profile jobs? Did we overlook them or they aren't just being posted?


To put this into perspective, this is what you said:

this editorial/campaign season will test them all.

So since April 2015 - Sept. 2015, we saw girls such as Fernanda and Yuan both booking the most jobs for editorials. They're the most in demand girls other than the established faces. Jing has slowed down but still steady. Then we have girls like Gia Tang (who made her debut on the cover of VI and not shows) and Estelle who've made progress too if not better than Dylan. Meanwhile Luping did a better job editorial-wise, overall.

Campaigns? FW15 ads has shown that Dylan has zero yet, whereas Luping, Sora, Tiana, Fernanda and Gia all have some sort of advertisement. Meaning they all are faring better than Dylan. (To be fair, Dylan's SS15 ads were favorable too, if not better.)


So... if you follow this thread you'd know that her most recent 'blue-chip' work outside of runway is Vogue China, no? POP magazine?

Either way, it's evident that Dylan has lost this "blue-chip following" that you speak of now that SS16 shows are coming. Usually works from Apr. 2015 - Sept. 2015 are reflected upon models and their status. It's unfortunate that Dylan didn't book as much editorial jobs during this time frame.

Having said all that. I think this would make perfect sense to you. After all, those are your words.



I also would like to respond to this:

sorry I dont see the other new girls like Yuanbo, lupings, tianas, soras in the same group. none of them have campaigns or walked those blue chip.

This isn't fair because you grouped Yuan and Tiana like that. Given that FW15 is their debut. Meanwhile Luping and Sora are fair comparison. Luping had a cosmetic ad and local ads however...

And I disagree. With the exception of Sora all the other girls actually walked at least one blue-chip show and other high-end shows. They really did. Don't dismiss theirs. P)




To go back to runway shows...

Of course, credit is given when its due. Dylan did do a better job in her second season than her first. That's a fact and acknowledged. However, let's dissect this: She essentially traded, or say wasn't cast for LV, Lanvin, Balenciaga and Loewe, which are deemed the blue-chip/better shows, but upgraded her NY listing. Click those links and compare and contrast.

Even with the upgraded NY and Prada, she went nowhere outside of this. If it weren't for her VC edits, she's basically back to square one, no? I mean jobs like Coach, Wang and W was great, but that's last season. She should be more consistent in the sense that when she booked Coach, Wang and W - you'd hope that she'll work with those creative teams again in that time span over the course from winter 2014 up to now. Evidently we didn't see anything at that level yet. Why's that? Where are those casting directors that booked her for the shows but not anything else? And I'm now repeating myself. If she cannot grasp these key people, what does that suppose to say? Should Supreme be accountable for this then? Genuine questions to probe.

A part of me is not that happy but at the same time see whether this change will bring better fortune for Dylan. Guessing Supreme & co. are feeling the tension or uncertainty... or simply cutting it.

As for the bolded part, I wrote that as I was aware and gave room of the possibility that Dylan/Supreme just wanted to cut it simply... But since this was in the midst of fashion week, it was impulsive to take it from both views. I thought and expressed both ways. But leaned toward the former and not the latter, given everything I've said previously.

Only her agency hows what coming out on her.

True. Do you have any leads?

How do you know she didn't shoot US Vogue already?

Um, are you giving us a hint? woot

This is not an indicator but when Vogue did this little feature, it somewhat imply that Dylan's not under Vogue's radar, yet... Hopefully they will.

...than only write how disappointed, concerned, worried you are.

As any fan/admirer of a model, you just can't be all rainbow and jolly in a rose-colored glasses kind of way, you know? Yeah, the outcry and concerns may seem annoying (sorry y'all) but it's legitimate. We outsiders would like to know. Can't we question or wonder about an aspect of a model's career that we truly care for? And I don't mean in the intrusive kind of way into their lives (although we sometimes do it for fun and if the model is willing to share to the public), but their work. Is that asking too much?

Here's something to corroborate and ponder for my insane theory
and in response/support to this Dylan's situation,
please bear...


Exhibit #1:

Here, Dylan being a fit model for Balenciaga. Literally gasped out loud when I saw this(!).


instagram/crfashionbook​

Don't get me wrong, being a personal fit model for the house is pretty good. We know the benefits of that. But WTH is a relatively new face like Dylan doing there? (Dylan's goal should be trying to book and be shot for his lookbook/show, not be BTS. Is it wrong to think it that way?) Does this mean she has been diminished? How does this supposed to reflect on Dylan? This doesn't look like it-girls would be doing...

Exhibit #2:

Here Dylan with models Li Wei and Wang Jing who seems to be close friends:

*ignore the first girl*



credits as tagged via weibo​

Here, I'm on the edge of shooting myself in the foot (please take this with a grain of salt), but hear me out.

To be friends with Li Wei and Wang Jing suggest something. In terms of their personality... Granted I've only watched an interview of Dylan (which don't know where to find it ATM) and she seems like those sweet, happy, 'normal' and introverted/shy type. (See her Weibo/IG/streetstyle.) I know. One clip doesn't tell the whole story. And it doesn't help that I don't know her personally or seen her modeling to make a valid judgement. True.

What I want to say is that being friends with Li Wei and Wang Jing could tell something more about Dylan's personality, who she is. Obviously this wouldn't give us much to follow. Understandable. And just because Dylan's friends with these two doesn't necessarily mean her career will be like theirs. That's not the correlation I'm trying to make. Just think part of the reason for the lack of work is partly, but not entirely, due to her personality. As crazy as that sound could this be a possibility (other than external factors such as management, visa issues, flight canceled, she's sick, etc.)?

I mean, I'm not necessarily saying Dylan has a bad/boring personality per se or stop being friends with them. No, far from it. I'm starting to think that Dylan's personality isn't that great or out there or whatever it may be that keep people from wanting to work with her, as in booking her for the job, you know (and sometimes, they don't even get the chance to meet the models but rely solely on their physical look, stats and how photogenic they are and whatnot). I'm merely speculating and theoretically speaking here. I mean trying to view this from industry folks who would want to work with a model that has a personality that they really like or admire and that could inspire them (think Fei Fei, Xiao Wen, Soojoo, Jing, Yuan and Liu). For most models, we all know that your look/style won't cut it. You have to have the personality too (and talent) to keep those folks coming back to work with you (other than great management/connections). You have to be memorable


It hurts to say that and I hope that this is wrong because obviously I don't have facts to provide, but by inferring what's available and is telling in front of us, albeit minimal... one could say that maybe people aren't seeing more to Dylan than her external look. Get it?




Just wanted to flush those points out...

fashiont914, if you read this and still think I'm trying to "put her down", then that's on you. Everything else you've accused me of is ridiculous but I didn't take offence as they're baseless. I'm happy to type this analysis up. This goes to show how not "blue-chip" you proclaim Dylan is or has.

fashiont914, feels like we're gonna be good friends. I sincerely apologize for my comment if it wasn't fitting. I didn't mean it like that. We are all rooting for Dylan.

 

[Prymasquous]

^ This isn't to say that this theory is true. It lacks a lot of evidence. It's just something that have been of great interest through observation and the seldom activity prompt for some kind of investigation. Pretty much.

Please note that the above piece isn't that serious (even between fashiont914 and I). And if this assessment is flawed, please call me out if one disagree. Glad to hear others' opinions and POV.


Will jump off a bridge if Dylan gets Prada again. But is that what we only/really want for Dylan? Too much emphasis on one show and doesn't walk the walk...


Believe me when I say I was calm throughout this whole process.

 

[fashiont914]

After reading your well written post, I still believe you are speculating too much with all these hidden clues and goose eggs. Then you write about the only asian girl who walked Prada the past two seasons (only one last season right) and say you will jump off a bridge if she does. That again is such a loaded statement.

You state you dont know Dylan but are making a lot of assumptions from personality to career choices. Your post clearly shows you play favorites like all of us but how your presenting it makes it seem truthful and matter of fact.

I have some insight that might clarify my points and then we can agree to disagree. Disclaimer: This is what I heard.
1. She had a lot of visa issues that was finally resolved last month that caused her to not be available for bookings. Maybe they were taking those other girls you mentioned because Dylan wasnt available? Seems as plausible as what you believe happened.
2. She clearly does a lot for Wang. Website, show, lookbook. Completely possible he asks for her for everything and because of her relationship with them, she does it for him. (from following girls on the forums, more common than you think especially considering her relationship with the brand and him).
2. Again, none of those girls you mentioned has two major campaigns (Coach and Wang - Meisel, Klein and Karl). You missed she does a ton for Kors as well. What bluechip major campaigns does said girls you compare Dylan to have?
3. She probably cut her hair because she wanted to cut her hair. Not like Yuanbao who colored her hair red (with your logic, Next, her agency could have been even more worried that they felt it was absolutely necessary.) FYI it was for the IV Cover and from what I heard, the other top girls didnt want to go red, hence Yuanbao getting the cover. How do we know they didnt ask Dylan, luping, jing and they all said no. if it was the right or wrong choice, who knows but cutting your hair 3-4 inches is not the same as going red, cutting bangs, doing pixie.
4. Paris, shes moved from women to the new supreme paris. That probably had a lot to do with Paris last season especially with supreme paris not having the same roster and being its first season.

5. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I can use your reasoning to make any girl look less exciting and to prove my point.
Luping - look at her models.com profile, enough said. That is a downward trajectory.
Yuanbao - seems like a lot of multigirl stories, I think that scar on her face will clearly have an effect on her career. The red hair was a desperation play by Next for a one off editorial. From interviews, her english seems to be the weakest of the group.
Sora - she who missed all of last season even though she was going to castings (for sure a lot of them and was in paris/NY). She must not have a great personality that designers and stylists pick up on. Where are her editorials?
Tiana - when does being the second girl for Jimmy Choo (did they even run her images in magazines) become special?
Fernanda Ly - historically girls like her flame out in 1-2 years. 5'6". What happens when NG from LV moves on from her. Shes really Australian Chinese isnt she?

I don't necessary need to believe what I am saying but it can sound convincing. I can keep going. My point is I am always open for a healthy debate but its easy to believe our own speculation.

 

[fashiont914]

With that said, I think you are amazing.

 

[TheoG]

Both of your statements to me personally make sense. When I saw Dylan had cut her hair, like most I speculated that maybe it was done as a "re branding" per say because its something we see throughout the industry with girls attempting to gain ground again by changing there look slightly to bring back some interest. But then I also saw the shorter hair as a relation to summer season, to feel fresh or Dylan herself wanted to cut it. Overall I love it, and hopefully it does help.

Its interesting to hear about the visa issue because it does make bring into light about her very limited work outside of China. Which isn't necessary bad thing, as we know the market in China is huge and working for VC still carries prestige.

I hope all these factors come together and work off one another -- the hair, visa, and the relationships she has built in her time as a model. Work and contribute to a great season because she still has interest, this new wave of Asian models is unique sighting.

The next few weeks will tell for Dylan, I'm excited to see it happen

 

[Prymasquous]

That again is such a loaded statement.

Could you please define what's a "loaded statement" please? What do you mean by that? Loaded as in BS?

Then you write about the only asian girl who walked Prada the past two seasons (only one last season right) and say you will jump off a bridge if she does.

Figuratively speaking. It was my saying of congratulation. We all enjoy when models walks for Prada. It's major. I only just question what else it'll do for a model's career. It's not like Dylan will star in their ads like Gemma.

But I get it. Dylan seems to be the new Asian Prada girl. That's huge for her and us. I get it, I really do. Next is the high expectation from walking Prada. Usually girls go on to do great things after it. I mean not all models but specific girls like Dylan. Turns out she's not really a Malaika, Vanessa or Lineisy...

Your post clearly shows you play favorites like all of us

What do you mean I play favoritism? Are you implying that I'm here to harm or do damage to Dylan and not other Asian models?

I'm not. The reason I'm being overly critical towards Dylan and not other Asian girls is simply because I have more faith in her? Why would I waste my time in here?

But if you know me, I pretty much support all Asian girls when I can. (There are more than I can handle! )

You state you dont know Dylan but are making a lot of assumptions from personality to career choices.... how your presenting it makes it seem truthful and matter of fact.

Correct. I don't know her.

And please don't get the wrong idea. I assured everyone and gave an open disclaimer that what I have to say isn't the truth. I admit that and I don't have a problem with that. Yes, a theory shrouded by speculations and assumptions doesn't go well with people, I understand, hence I gave a warning. However I tried to provide materials to support my words. And I know that wasn't enough, I mean posting pictures of two events of Dylan is insufficient and less credibility. I get it.

But that was me starting somewhere to explain my stance. And that wasn't intentionally to undermine Dylan personally or professionally. It was my way of saying, 'hey, I think the problem is because xyz' given my two examples. True, I made it to support my theory (that's the whole point) but I didn't say it was the truth or right. Or that I claim to the real reasons. See the difference?

1. She had a lot of visa issues that was finally resolved last month that caused her to not be available for bookings. Maybe they were taking those other girls you mentioned because Dylan wasnt available? Seems as plausible as what you believe happened.

Likely if those other girls were available. I agree.

2. She clearly does a lot for Wang. Website, show, lookbook. Completely possible he asks for her for everything and because of her relationship with them, she does it for him. (from following girls on the forums, more common than you think especially considering her relationship with the brand and him).

I don't argue about their relationship. That's great to have support.

By your suggestion, here's the thing... is Anna Ewers* a fit model for Wang too? Would she do it if she was asked (despite her figure and it's likely she won't but hypothetically speaking)? What I'm trying to say here is that there should be a distinction from fit models and a model who's trying to make a name for herself as a newcomer... I wasn't aware that top newcomers would become fit models. Weird. Isn't there a whole 'category/market' for models who are employed as just fit models?

Anyway here's another example: it would probably be okay for a model like Hanne (a muse and friend to Wang) to be a fit model because she doesn't do much outside of runway(?) and due to her association with the brands, versus someone like Dylan. You see where I'm going with this? I mean, do we see girls like Maartje Verhoef being a fit model for Valentino; Lineisy for Prada; Julia Nobis for Ghesquiere? (If they do, then correct me. But I still stand by what I mean.)

And I admit, I'm not that knowledgeable who gets to be a fit model and who has been and who can't. But you'd think that these newcomers would be on the go flying to jobs and going to castings to book jobs. Why be a fit model? Or why settle for that job/position? What comes out from this (other than the obvious long-term loyalty/association/relationship)? If that's what you're trying to cultivate then I guess so...

Either way, do you see what I'm trying to articulate here?


*I know Anna is an established face. Just using her for an example.

2. Again, none of those girls you mentioned has two major campaigns (Coach and Wang - Meisel, Klein and Karl). You missed she does a ton for Kors as well. What bluechip major campaigns does said girls you compare Dylan to have?

I think you're getting the wrong idea (but I get what you mean, keep reading below). I basically counter-argue/respond to what you said here:

this editorial/campaign season will test them all.

What I wrote essentially supported your words above. The matter of the fact is that Dylan doesn't have any FW15 campaigns and her VC edits aren't in the same league as VI (I mean we put more importance on VI than VC, no? I could care less, but for practical reasons that's what it is: western publications > other Vogue editions).

Basically Dylan's editorial/campaign run is sub-par compare to those girls I mentioned. That's not subjective. That's a fact. (Why can't you ackowledge that? This is not a pitting game. Their works speaks for themselves.)

To make this clear. No one's denying or discounting Dylan's resume. I even said that Dylan's SS15 ads were favorable, if not better than theirs/some. It's obvious. Coach/Meisel and Wang/Klein was pretty damn good for a new face like Dylan - we all rejoiced. However, the point is that that's last season. SS16 shows are here and she has ZERO campaigns. VC and POP editorial-wise.


Furthermore, working with Meisel once for a "high-end commercial" ad isn't that great, but it adds prestige as that's Meisel. Great!

But here is the problem that I see and what I've been trying to tell you: are they gonna keep working w/ each other? I mean Dylan x Meisel isn't like Sunghee, Fei Fei or Issa. Those three girls had multiple jobs with the man. They were able to gain momentum/credited as having serious bluechip backing by working with him more than once. Do you see the difference?

Being in the background of Wang's campaign is not that impressive IMO, but it's on her resume nevertheless. And working w/ Klein twice is good. And she's able to develop a relationship w/ Mr. Wang himself. That's good. Nobody's denying these. But if you really want mega "bluechip" galore you'll have to have Dylan front his campaign and not Anna Ewers or a Balenciaga campaign. Get it?

3. She probably cut her hair because she wanted to cut her hair.

Yes. But how sure are you? And I don't mean that in a harsh way, if she told you personally, then I'll believe you. And I obviously don't know too. But I've explained why I think she cut her hair.

Not like Yuanbao who colored her hair red (with your logic, Next, her agency could have been even more worried that they felt it was absolutely necessary.) FYI it was for the IV Cover and from what I heard, the other top girls didnt want to go red, hence Yuanbao getting the cover.

At first I didn't understand what you were trying to say above, but are you saying that it was a gamble of uncertainty on NEXT and Yuan's part whether she should go red or not?

So are you implying that it was a bad move for Yuan going red? To Yuan, it doesn't seem like it hurt her at all(?)... her print work are all in red hair and she walked Dior.

Did I get that right?

How do we know they didnt ask Dylan, luping, jing and they all said no.

True. But that's the thing, we don't know that. If they knew this was an invitation from VI and needed a girl with red hair, why not?
Was it too much of a risk? Granted, we don't know Dylan's circumstance at that moment. But by taking that chance she would've gotten a bluechip badge automatically...

Jing will get VI regardless (Sorrenti probably requested her personally and knowing the theme, Jing agreed to do it).

I suspect Luping doesn't have the connection due to her agency or she hasn't smitten those big photogs yet (or she was booked for something else).

if it was the right or wrong choice, who knows but cutting your hair 3-4 inches is not the same as going red, cutting bangs, doing pixie.

True. I give up. Cutting her hair isn't drastic as Yuan but let's be honest. Yuan going red didn't hinder her... at least from what we've seen. This allude to the idea that she has better management/connection and/or they wanted to work with her. And Dylan... I can't help there unfortunately.

4. Paris, shes moved from women to the new supreme paris. That probably had a lot to do with Paris last season especially with supreme paris not having the same roster and being its first season.

Yeah Women Paris is a little crowded. Hopefully she's now taken care of.

5. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I can use your reasoning to make any girl look less exciting and to prove my point.
Luping - look at her models.com profile, enough said. That is a downward trajectory.
Yuanbao - seems like a lot of multigirl stories, I think that scar on her face will clearly have an effect on her career. The red hair was a desperation play by Next for a one off editorial. From interviews, her english seems to be the weakest of the group.
Sora - she who missed all of last season even though she was going to castings (for sure a lot of them and was in paris/NY). She must not have a great personality that designers and stylists pick up on. Where are her editorials?
Tiana - when does being the second girl for Jimmy Choo (did they even run her images in magazines) become special?
Fernanda Ly - historically girls like her flame out in 1-2 years. 5'6". What happens when NG from LV moves on from her. Shes really Australian Chinese isnt she?

I don't necessary need to believe what I am saying but it can sound convincing. I can keep going. My point is I am always open for a healthy debate but its easy to believe our own speculation.

It took me a while to fully grasp what you meant with that bolded block of words. You weren't serious right? Or are you? I get what you're saying and I agree. Just because I said that, doesn't mean it's the truth. I get it. But they are hunches and you have to speculate if you don't know the truth. I think it's okay momentarily.

But in my defense, I chose her personality is simply because it's one of the only thing that we could go off from (and this applies to all models). I couldn't choose skills as we don't know how models perform in front of the camera. What else could we go from? Bad management? We don't know how and what business' are being conducted BTS. We however get an idea of who these industry folks like working with what models. That's quite clear. Among other things but it was just easier to explain why xyz model hasn't booked jobs or xyz photog/stylist/editor hasn't worked with xyz model. Choosing models' personality was the easier route I guess (and yes, it sounds ludicrous but I've been following her via social media to make this evaluation but NOT a final judgement. I mean she's not that type of model/person... IDK how to explain it. But I want to be proved wrong through her print work and her backstage activity and through other fashion mediums). Hopefully you get why I chose personality over agency management, skills, models requests, etc.

Of course the one major thing that override all what I've said previously is the fact that she had visa issues, like you said... that for the most part jeopardized her chances and these potential jobs. With that said, should we be seeing her working with the major players and in these fashion magazines soon, now that she cleared her visa problems?



Anywaaaay, that's my essay for you.

 

[Prymasquous]

You see, this is what happens when you get so invested in a model that you adore so much and the potential that she has... and then things just aren't turning out right. You then start going crazy and look elsewhere and trying to come up with these false notions that probably doesn't add up. That's human nature.

With that said. That's kind of what happened. And I realized using a personality to determine something is quite radical and ridiculous. I know that now. But somehow it makes sense for some weird reason...


Thanks fashiont914, for the POP scans and the insight of her personal struggles.




Thanks TheoG for being a third party in this conversation. And I agree.

 

[fashiont914]

Loaded Statement (from yahoo answers no less) - You say something that will enflame passions in people, either positive or negative, and could also have a double meaning or a hidden meaning.

I am trying to understand your argument and I really am. You are jumping between my statements, picking at them but missing the overall picture.
My entire point is you can speculate all you want but its wrong to pass it off as truth or speak about things like its factual. Your argument has no proof but you keep arguing, "Im not saying this is true and I dont have any proof, maybe Im wrong but its likely true."

Fact: Dylan has a much higher standard that she needs to achieve because she is one of the few asian girls in the new class of asian models, modeling two seasons or less (jing, fernanda being the others) with blue chip support.

You and I have different standards for blue chip which is clearly shown in your definition. HOWEVER, your argument is comparing her to non Asian models to asians than models who have been in fashion for 5+ years. If you look at all the top asian girls in history, Dylan's career (along with Jing and Fernando) trend the closest to their career path. (sorry yuanbao and the others do not) If you compare any of Dylan's class or last season asian class to the likes of Maartje, Malaika, Anna Ewers, Julia Nobis etc, they dont compare. None of them. ZERO. NOT EVEN CLOSE. ACTUALLY HOW MANY MODELS IN GENERAL COMPARE TO THE THEM?.....

SADLY, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A ASIAN GIRL WHO IS EXPERIENCING OR HAS EXPERIENCED THAT LEVEL OF SUCCESS EARLY IN THEIR CAREER LIKE MAARTJE, MALAIKA, ANNA EWERS, JULIA NOBIS, ETC.

Maybe Dujuan and Liu Wen in year 3+, FeiFei year 4 and 5 of their careers came close but even then they were still were not operating at the same level as Maartje, Anna Ewers, and Malaika were in even those girls year 1-2-3. You could argue Liu Wen has VS and Estee Lauder. Either way, you are speaking about the three top asian models of the past 10-15 years. If Dylan has a career close to them, I am sure everyone would be happy.

No one is arguing Dylan is as blue chip like maartje, anna ewers, malaika. We were comparing her to the other asians in her class and last season's class as they started the same time and are her likely competition. If you are saying she is not as blue chip as Anna Ewers, I 100% argue. If you are saying Dylan is not blue chip, then we agree to disagree.

But please keep your standards consistent.
For example,you discount shooting with Meisel (the top fashion photographer in the world) for Coach like its nothing (every new asian model would have jumped at it and shooting a campaign is worth more than an IV editorial (higher exposure, $$, recognition) unless its an IV cover or single girl story with Meisel which NONE of the girls in Dylan's comparison group have done. Is Prada a high end commercial job? (yes and shot by Meisel).

I listed why this is significant with facts below, not speculation, not feelings. Then I accept this is how you think and hopefully you should accept this is how I think.
None of the girls in her comparison group except Fernanda have any A level campaigns.

Meisel picked Dylan. Who else in her comparison group have shot with Meisel (not sure if Fernanda did but other than her, answer is ZERO).

and yes Dylan has not shot with Meisel again and definitely not as much as Sunghee (2011 or 2012)), Feifei (she started 2011?), Issa (started 2010?) but non of those girls were in the comparison group to begin with and Dylan first started last September. Its been less than a year. How many shoots has Meisel shot an asian girl in the elapsed time? (I think one - Feifei, maybe fernanda).


PLEASE NO MORE. We are hijacking this thread with this.

 

[Prymasquous]

There were a lot of things that were thrown in and got mixed messages/misinterpretations. My bad.


First, let's focus on the two main arguments:

1. Dylan and Meisel ("bluechip support")
   
2. editorials/campaigns (April - Sept. 2015)

Now that we have them in front of us, let's dive into them.

1. Yes, I now wholeheartedly see where you're coming from. I agree. No other Asian girl has worked w/ Meisel out from the getgo like Dylan did. There. No more confusion, no more going at it. Done. You win.


2. This is what you said here:

sorry I dont see the other new girls like Yuanbo, lupings, tianas, soras in the same group. none of them have campaigns or walked those blue chip. this editorial/campaign season will test them all.

The basis of this argument should be and was about models' work load from April (after the FW15 shows) to Sept. 2015 (before SS16 shows) to determine how the girls will fare prior SS16 shows. Because our original debate started after FW15 shows. Remember?

Put it this way: Everything from SS15 campaigns to FW15 shows are behind them. Not gone forever. Not to be discounted. But hidden for NOW. It's a NEW season upon us. SS15 ads/FW15 shows have concluded. We're simply moving forward, onto SS16 shows (then after fashion weeks ends, we will be on a lookout for more print work from there on, but of course established/non-newcomers will book jobs regardless, if they can).

Let's go further...

Dylan's print work from April - Sept. 2015 < the other girls in terms of quantity. True. None of them worked with Meisel. But to go by your words, we're just looking at their print work collectively, their work load. I get that you're putting emphasis on quality, prestige and the photog. I am too. That should be the standard. But again, we're specifically referring to this time period (April - Sept. 2015), to see who has been booking jobs and who hasn't, both quality and quantity.

Look below for each girls' work from that time period.


Fernanda:

Louis Vuitton F/W15
VI June cover
VI June edit
VUK Sept. edit
VJ Aug. edit
VA June edit
Interview Sept. edit
Teen Vogue Sept. edit
I-D FALL15 edit
LOVE FW15 edit
Flaunt Mag. May edit


Yuan:

VI June cover
VI June edit
VC Aug. edit
VC Sept. edit
VJ Aug. edit
LOVE FW15 edit
Dazed & Confused Aug. edit
Wild Mag. SS15 edit


Tiana:

CK Jeans FW15
Jimmy Choo FW15
Jimmy Choo Men FW15
Numero Sept. edit
Elle US Sept. edit
W Korea July edit
W Korea June edit
SKP China SS15 edit


Sora:

Dolce & Gabbana FW15
VC May edit
VG Apr. edit
VK Sept. edit
VK Aug. edit
VK July edit
Teen Vogue Apr. edit
W Korea Apr. edit
POP FW15 edit
Elle Korea Sept. edit
Elle Korea June edit
Marie Claire Korea June edit
Single Mag. Korea edit


Luping:

Ports 1961 F/W15
Shiatzty Chen F/W15
VC May edit
VC June edit
VC July edit
VJ Aug edit
VTW May edit
Bazaar China Aug. edit
Elle China May edit
Elle China June edit
T Mag. China Apr.edit
Grazia China Apr. cover
Grazia China Apr. edit
Grazia China Apr. edit
Modern Lady China July cover
Modedrn Lady China July edit.
Femina China Apr. cover
Femina China Apr. edit
SKP China SS15 edit
Icon Mag. Singapore Sept. cover
Icon Mag. Singapore Sept. edit


Dylan:

VC Aug. edit
VC Sept. edit
POP F/W15 edit
Near East Mag. SS15 edit
SCMP China May edit


Estelle:

VI June edit
Glass Mag. SS15 edit

*these lists may be incomplete

**Also, I would like to correct myself that Estelle doesn't have an edge over Dylan.


Clearly, Dylan doesn't have the numbers. And her biggest "bluechip support" is Sundsbo. Think their work load speaks for themselves. Can you acknowledge that most of these girls have surpassed Dylan in print work from April - Sept.? Also Dylan debut SS15 hence she got her SS15 ads, which you even pit her against Yuan, Tiana, etc., which wasn't even fair too. So now you see that these new girls have preceded her in that period. Granted, Dylan's was far better than theirs, quality-wise (SS15). But it's a new season. We've moved on...

Are we done with argument #2?

and yes Dylan has not shot with Meisel again and definitely not as much as Sunghee (2011 or 2012)), Feifei (she started 2011?), Issa (started 2010?) but non of those girls were in the comparison group to begin with and Dylan first started last September. Its been less than a year. How many shoots has Meisel shot an asian girl in the elapsed time? (I think one - Feifei, maybe fernanda).

True. However, think you've misunderstood my point as to why Sunghee, Fei Fei and Issa were used for examples. I question the Dylan and Meisel partnership. You see, when those three first worked w/ Meisel, they all booked another job within a year:

Sunghee: Miu Miu resort SS13 and Prada SS13
Fei Fei: CK One SS11, VI Jan. 2011 edit, Louis Vuitton FW11 and VUS edits
Issa: VI Apr. 2014 cover, VI Sept. 2014 cover and Coach FW14

And don't get me wrong. I/we want Dylan to be a Meisel girl. The matter of the fact is that she hasn't worked w/ him for a year now once Oct/Nov comes. That's factual. That was an issue I raised for you to see. This could imply that she's not really a Meisel girl, you know? The only way we really know that you're really a Meisel girl, is by booking jobs back-to-back or to the point he's literally obsessed with you that you're in everything. That's the truth. Unfortunately he's not that obsessed w/ Dylan... at least not yet. If he really liked Dylan, I bet he would've went out his way to photograph/book her. That's my opinion.

This was a big concern that I wrote "May Dylan be more than just a flavor".

With that said, you can harp on how amazing Dylan had worked with Meisel all you want, but are you still gonna say she has "serious bluechip support", your words, right now or a year from now? Do you see now why I brought up those three girls (regardless of their status, when they debut) in relationship w/ Meisel in response to your point? I get that you're talking about her debut. But nothing happened after that. Fact.

Of course, Meisel isn't the only top photog out there. But evidently no other than Meisel/Klein has worked with her so far (besides Sundsbo). To be fair just because Dylan/Meisel worked once doesn't mean they won't ever work again. Liu is a perfect example to that.

So basically my point is that, you shouldn't put too much emphasis on this Meisel/Coach event when things aren't that phenomenal...

Please be understanding and don't let this one event overshadow you.

You and I have different standards for blue chip which is clearly shown in your definition. HOWEVER, your argument is comparing her to non Asian models to asians than models who have been in fashion for 5+ years. If you look at all the top asian girls in history, Dylan's career (along with Jing and Fernando) trend the closest to their career path. (sorry yuanbao and the others do not) If you compare any of Dylan's class or last season asian class to the likes of Maartje, Malaika, Anna Ewers, Julia Nobis etc, they dont compare. None of them. ZERO. NOT EVEN CLOSE. ACTUALLY HOW MANY MODELS IN GENERAL COMPARE TO THE THEM?.....

SADLY, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A ASIAN GIRL WHO IS EXPERIENCING OR HAS EXPERIENCED THAT LEVEL OF SUCCESS EARLY IN THEIR CAREER LIKE MAARTJE, MALAIKA, ANNA EWERS, JULIA NOBIS, ETC.

Maybe Dujuan and Liu Wen in year 3+, FeiFei year 4 and 5 of their careers came close but even then they were still were not operating at the same level as Maartje, Anna Ewers, and Malaika were in even those girls year 1-2-3. You could argue Liu Wen has VS and Estee Lauder. Either way, you are speaking about the three top asian models of the past 10-15 years. If Dylan has a career close to them, I am sure everyone would be happy.

No one is arguing Dylan is as blue chip like maartje, anna ewers, malaika. We were comparing her to the other asians in her class and last season's class as they started the same time and are her likely competition. If you are saying she is not as blue chip as Anna Ewers, I 100% argue. If you are saying Dylan is not blue chip, then we agree to disagree.

Sorry that I made you misinterpret what I was saying, perhaps? But you're getting the wrong idea. The reason why I used non-Asian models is because I was using them to illustrate my point in respect to your points; I wasn't comparing each individual models' careers in itself w/ Dylan. I'd thought you'd see the bigger picture as I was just giving you ideas to think to that particular point. Don't think about their achievements. Think about who the model is, at their point of their career. That was my whole point of using them. Get it?

Yeah I don't follow too many new models to give you the best comparison, or that started the same season as Dylan... and there wasn't enough Asian models to give the best example to express what I want to say clearly. I really wasn't thinking how you had interpret it. Sorry that you took it that way. Though I still stand by what I mean by using those girls for my examples.

Fact: Dylan has a much higher standard that she needs to achieve because she is one of the few asian girls in the new class of asian models, modeling two seasons or less (jing, fernanda being the others) with blue chip support.

True. Those three has the better resume, so far.

But please keep your standards consistent.
For example,you discount shooting with Meisel (the top fashion photographer in the world) for Coach like its nothing (every new asian model would have jumped at it

Sorry that I made you view it that way. Read below.

This is what I wrote:

Furthermore, working with Meisel once for a "high-end commercial" ad isn't that great, but it adds prestige as that's Meisel. Great!

Sorry that I made it sound as if I discounted it. What I meant was that for me and many others, Meisel/Coach isn't the same as Meisel/Prada or Miu Miu or back when he did Lanvin, Balenciaga, or even Missoni, etc. I was making the distinction from a commercial brand like Coach versus a bluechip brand like Prada/Miu Miu/Balenciaga, etc. That, yes, I reduce the prestige-ness b/c it's Coach. Do you see the difference?

However I even said "great!" as Coach was lensed by Meisel. That's the positive.

unless its an IV cover or single girl story with Meisel which NONE of the girls in Dylan's comparison group have done.

True. But the same thing could be said about Dylan too. Meanwhile Yuan, Fernanda and Gia has a VI cover.

I mean a VI is better than no VI, no? Regardless of the new change. Yes, it loses some prestige as it's not by Meisel, that's very true... but hey, McDean/Sorrenti are top tier photogs too.

There VI covers are still valid.

None of the girls in her comparison group except Fernanda have any A level campaigns.

True. You win.

Meisel picked Dylan. Who else in her comparison group have shot with Meisel (not sure if Fernanda did but other than her, answer is ZERO).

No one. Only Dylan. You win.

and shooting a campaign is worth more than an IV editorial (higher exposure, $$, recognition)

True. But that was last season. Either way, currently Dylan's eds > Estelle's. Both have no ads.

Is Prada a high end commercial job? (yes and shot by Meisel).

I thought Prada was just bluechip/high-end fashion brand whereas Coach is more of a commercial brand that's more accessible to the public and of lesser prestige. Is that wrong? I added "high-end commercial" because of the new creative direction of the campaign and it's by Meisel.

I am trying to understand your argument and I really am. You are jumping between my statements, picking at them but missing the overall picture.

I think you're missing my points too. Like really. I have to reiterate myself and then break it down and explain them to you. (Not that I mind, but it gets redundant.) There are many things going on that I have to respond directly so you won't misunderstand what I'm saying and vice-versa. I'm trying my best to address my points in regard to your statements. There are nuances and context that needs to be said for clarity.

But yeah, sorry as this is the internet.

My entire point is you can speculate all you want but its wrong to pass it off as truth or speak about things like its factual. Your argument has no proof but you keep arguing, "Im not saying this is true and I dont have any proof, maybe Im wrong but its likely true."

I still don't think it's that bad to speculate, in itself. I was just putting ideas out there and where I was coming from. Doesn't necessarily mean it's the truth. I got that. Why can't you accept that?

If we can't speculate then there's nothing to talk about/go off from (before the facts are presented). I just happened to expressed that publicly...




Is this a better understanding follow-up?

 

[Prymasquous]

Would be interesting what her agencies uses for her showcards if they don't have a theme.

And if Dylan walks Prada, Wang and those repeated shows, then, we got half of our answers...

 

[tofuparty]

well, i'm with fashiont914 here. although trashing other asian girls isn't necessary.

i'm really liking dylan's cut -- very refreshing.

 

[fashiont914]

Prymasquous:
I realized you have a different definition of "Blue Chip" than the majority of people here. What does blue chip mean to you?

2. I checked the picture from Wang that you have posted repeatedly from the AW resort presentations for Vogue/Bazaar/W/etc. DONE. NOT FROM FITTINGS. The same thing she did for Balencaiga, Narciso and Michael Kors this season.

3. You are glossing over the last part of the fact Dylan - Meisel. Has Meisel shot an asian model since he shot dylan? (i honestly dont know) Should Dylan create the story and book herself? I am not a fan of such circumstantial evidence. =T

4. I think you independently made this the basis of the argument and bringing in quotes from all over the place. I am arguing on the danger of speculating like you are doing now.

"The basis of this argument should be and was about models' work load from April (after the FW15 shows) to Sept. 2015 (before SS16 shows) to determine how the girls will fare prior SS16 shows. Because our original debate started after FW15 shows. Remember?"

Put it this way: Everything from SS15 campaigns to FW15 shows are behind them. Not gone forever. Not to be discounted. But hidden for NOW. It's a NEW season upon us. SS15 ads/FW15 shows have concluded. We're simply moving forward, onto SS16 shows (then after fashion weeks ends, we will be on a lookout for more print work from there on, but of course established/non-newcomers will book jobs regardless, if they can).


My point is I can do the same for every single one of those girls you are comparing her to. If you put who shot the editorials, single girl vs multi girl, and the stylist, your list and your point look much different. SEE WHAT I DID?
When did quantity become quality?
Worse, editorial season is just starting.

You are writing things like "Don't think about their achievements. Think about who the model is, at their point of their career."

What can anyone say to that?

and to be fair, I can start to speculate on Luping, Yuanbao, Tiana, and others but I am not going to because I am not a model basher.

 

[fashiont914]

I am calling a truce to this debate. I accept you Prymasquous and your points and hope you accept mine.

NO MORE FIGHTING. =)
I hope all the girls mentioned do well.

 

[Prymasquous]

It seems you haven't took the time to digest what I have to say nor try to acknowledge my points when I gave ideas/facts in respect to yours. And I've repeated myself enough and try to be as clear as possible and understanding. And what? You can't even do the same thing? You said you're "always up for a healthy debate"... where's the integrity in that? Seems you've cowered a part of this debate's intention and origin, as well.

Seriously? If anyone reads our posts, the only one who's blatanly bashing/putting other models down is you. Yes, you. Unbelievable. You and your accusations, again. I get it. This is sensitive. But it doesn't hurt to reflect at yourself...


Apparently reading comprehension skills, critical thinking and coherence are all requirements for this kind of "debate" to continue.

Fortunately, I'm done conversing with you. Agree to disagree. I was wrong somewhere, so were you. You were right, so was I.

 

[Prymasquous]

GRAZIA CHINA SEPT. 2015
'Vibrant Forecast'
Ph: Zhang Chao
Stylist: Lu
Hair: Jason X
Makeup: Jiang Na









huayibrothersfashion.com ​

 

[fashiont914]

Five Models to Watch This Fashion Week

T Magazine just listed their Five Models to Watch This Fashion Week.
Lineisy, Florence Kosky, Amilna Estevao, Avery Blanchard, and Dylan.

Source: NY Times
Link - http://nyti.ms/1MekY8t

 

[zoom]

Dylan just opened Ohne Titel For all the worry in this thread, no need. Dylan's career is red hot and just getting started.

 

[TheoG]

^ Sure did, looked gorgeous too.

Ohne Titel S/S 2016 New York (O)


vogue.com