Established Designers That You Just Don't "get"?

[Orochian]

Originally posted by MJCouture@Apr 21st, 2004 - 10:18 pm
after re-reading some of the posts on this forum I realize many of the members care little about the art of fashion. They care about wearable clothing, that while may still be beautiful, isnt really what all fashion should be about. I am not saying I am willing to wear a lot of the more avante garde pieces, but is surprises me how easily people are willing to cast off something that is different and praise something that is mediocre.

Constructive, practical designs aren't necessarily mediocre. Seen a Helmut Lang or Jil Sander show lately?

On the other hand, "t*ts falling out of tops", as you've so eloquently put it, is certainly vulgar by anyone's standard, unless you're a wh*re and needs that look as a business tactic.

Fashion isn't art. Clothes are created to be worn. They have to faciliate our daily life while we're wearing them. Creating clothes that no one would wear just for theatrics on the runway is pointless and futile. Period.

Cavalli is certainly entitled to do whatever the heck he decides to do, it's his house and his business. But as a consumer I also have just as much a right to comment on his designs. If I don't like someone's work, a wonderful thing called the freedom of speech grants me the right to express my opinion.

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by Orochian@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:24 am
Fashion isn't art. Clothes are created to be worn. They have to faciliate our daily life while we're wearing them. Creating clothes that no one would wear just for theatrics on the runway is pointless and futile. Period.

How very glad I am that you're not in charge of the runways...

 

[dramatique]

I actually am fond of Galliano, he's got talent that is true however what I am not in favor of is that his designs are now more for shock value like everything else (pop culture even art) which just distracts from whatever talent the man has.

 

[Orochian]

Originally posted by MJCouture@Apr 21st, 2004 - 10:15 pm
And also I dis-agree that Donatella isnt a real designer. She not only ran much of the behind the scenes stuff for her brother, but I personally think she has done a fantastic job on her own. Not everyone can wear boring central-European black clothing. Some people like to have fun with clothing. It may not be for everyone, but that doesnt mean it isnt respectable.

As far as I know, before Gianni's death, her only creative duty was limited to the Versus line. And that, as far as I'm concerned, was the start of the line's demise.

And the downturn soon spread to the rest of the Versace empire after Gianni's untimely death and her unfortunate promotion to the role of creative director for the entire label.

Subjectively, I wouldn't exactly call her creative work "a fantastic job". Objectively and undebatably, the brand's alarming finances certainly don't indicate a fantastic job on her behalf either.

 

[Orochian]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia+Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:26 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(purplelucrezia @ Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:26 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Orochian@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:24 am
Fashion isn't art. Clothes are created to be worn. They have to faciliate our daily life while we're wearing them. Creating clothes that no one would wear just for theatrics on the runway is pointless and futile. Period.

How very glad I am that you're not in charge of the runways... [/b][/quote]
Oh, so you think we should all dress like the freaks on Galliano's runway and throw bananas at each other all day long just for fun?

 

[Sephora_Socialite]

I voted Galliano..his show just confuses me ...all for show, too bad.

Stuff like this fur jacket/blanket is just.. ..but things like that white dress I'd wear.

Thing is Dsquared shouldn't be concidered high fashion with names like dior, gucci, versace, etc..its more on the lines of everyday wear like Miss Sixty, Betsey Johnson etc. I actually own and like some of their things...what I dont get is that whole cabin theme they had last show..I know they love Canada, but opening with mounties??? So I can understand peoples hate, but I cant help but like them somewhat for the clothes I DO like.

This, from their Spring show I own and love wearing..its comfy and still cute.

Cavalli....I like his prints...I dont get some of this clothes yeah, but the prints are usually very beautiful...I have a few of his stuff despite the "sl*t" factor put on him..

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by Orochian+Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:34 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Orochian @ Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:34 am)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:26 am
<!--QuoteBegin-Orochian

@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:24 am
Fashion isn't art.  Clothes are created to be worn.  They have to faciliate our daily life while we're wearing them.  Creating clothes that no one would wear just for theatrics on the runway is pointless and futile.  Period.

How very glad I am that you're not in charge of the runways...

Oh, so you think we should all dress like the freaks on Galliano's runway and throw bananas at each other all day long just for fun? [/b][/quote]
Of course, that's exactly what I think...

What I'm saying is that sometimes it's nice to have a bit of ubsurdity. Not everything needs to be practical, that's not what fashion's about, a least to me.

 

[maarit]

Originally posted by MJCouture@Apr 21st, 2004 - 10:15 pm
Not everyone can wear boring central-European black clothing.

huh? have I missed a big trend in Central Europe?

 

[TheSweetest]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia+Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:52 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(purplelucrezia @ Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:52 am)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by Orochian@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:34 am

Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:26 am
<!--QuoteBegin-Orochian

@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:24 am
Fashion isn't art.  Clothes are created to be worn.  They have to faciliate our daily life while we're wearing them.  Creating clothes that no one would wear just for theatrics on the runway is pointless and futile.  Period.

How very glad I am that you're not in charge of the runways...

Oh, so you think we should all dress like the freaks on Galliano's runway and throw bananas at each other all day long just for fun?

Of course, that's exactly what I think...

What I'm saying is that sometimes it's nice to have a bit of ubsurdity. Not everything needs to be practical, that's not what fashion's about, a least to me. [/b][/quote]
i totally agree. absurdity is absolutely necessary (IMO). I feel at times it should be taken seriously, but then again loosened up a bit.

May I ask when fashion got knocked of 'the forms of art' list?


MJCouture

This comment particularly bothers me. I think what people tend to ignore about Cavali is that he doesn't even try to be a Coco or Oscar. He is true to himself, has a constant look. I saw somewhere once that there were two types of women in Italy, Italian women, and Cavali women. Just because it doesnt suit yourstyle, and it is slightly over the top doesnt mean that it doesnt have presence in the fashion world. Not everything that goes down a catwalk is supposed to be wearable, it is supposed to represent the designer's vision. If Cavali thinks that women's t*ts should be falling out of their tops, and sees that as his ideal, than I am glad that that is what he designs. No one said you had to buy it.

And also I dis-agree that Donatella isnt a real designer. She not only ran much of the behind the scenes stuff for her brother, but I personally think she has done a fantastic job on her own. Not everyone can wear boring central-European black clothing. Some people like to have fun with clothing. It may not be for everyone, but that doesnt mean it isnt respectable. .

i agree with that also. It may not be for all, but don't knock it cuz you don't like it. it's just not for you.

 

[Lena]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia+Apr 22nd, 2004 - 6:26 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(purplelucrezia @ Apr 22nd, 2004 - 6:26 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Orochian@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:24 am
Fashion isn't art. Clothes are created to be worn. They have to faciliate our daily life while we're wearing them. Creating clothes that no one would wear just for theatrics on the runway is pointless and futile. Period.

How very glad I am that you're not in charge of the runways... [/b][/quote]
true, clothes are created to be worn,
but this doesnt mean they need to be boring , repetitive or 'flat' right?
a little extravagant detail makes all the difference

and yes, i probably agree with purple..
i'm afraid we need to keep you at a safe catwalk/atelier distance dear orochian

 

[mikeijames]

i love how through each of these topics we can always find the heart of the debate on tFs...a topic about designers seems to always come back to the question of fashion and art...(which i think was treated extensively in another topic)...however, keeping in line with the original intention of this topic, i argue that versace and cavalli (and to a very much lesser extent dsquared) both turn out true high fashion because they continue to produce current, wearable items that fall under their overall design philosophies. margiela is an insider brand (doesn't he refuse to even be photographed?)...he operates under a completely different mode. his clothes are not meant to attract the same attention a cavalli or versace garment would. marc jacobs is a healthy mix of them both (at least where i'm from)...you either know or you don't. but galliano...*shaking head in confusion*

 

[MJCouture]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia+Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:26 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(purplelucrezia @ Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:26 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Orochian@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 12:24 am
Fashion isn't art. Clothes are created to be worn. They have to faciliate our daily life while we're wearing them. Creating clothes that no one would wear just for theatrics on the runway is pointless and futile. Period.

How very glad I am that you're not in charge of the runways... [/b][/quote]
Me too. If you don't think fashion is art, than why don't you just go to Banna Republic? They have plenty of decently attractive, un awe-inspiring pieces that I am sure you would love Orochian.

 

[faust]

I think what Orochian means is that functionality should be a priority for a designer, and that is true. I believe that some extravagance is in order, BUT I think Galliano's or Jeremy Scott's circuses have NOTHING to do with fashion. Extravagance a la McQueen's dance marathon show for S/S 2004 is not perfectly acceptable but welcome BECAUSE is showcases the clothes that will (well not all, but a lot) get to the stores. On the other hand everyone knows that Galliano's runway clown costumes will not. So, that's the difference, for clarification purposes

MJ, I find your taste to be a little self-contradictory. You say "fashion is art", and I agree (let me not elaborate in this thread). However, what I've seen from your posts (especially in "what you are wearing today") and the designers you are pointing out here seem to be mass manufactured luxury goods, opposite of what art is (they are just as mass manufactured as Banana Republic is, only on a different level).

 

[faust]

Originally posted by ebowleg@Apr 21st, 2004 - 6:35 pm
I actually quite like all of the designers that were mentioned in the poll, except Martin Margiela because I never heard of them, but I don't really like Zac Posen...With the exception of his spring 2004 show, he has turned me off completely with his attitude...I saw a documentary with him where at one point he became really irritated with the camera's and pulled a Naomi on the crew...I have also seen other things on TV that just turn me off about him, therefore I generally do not take a second look at his collections...

I think you should expand your fashion horizons.

 

[MJCouture]

Originally posted by faust@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 9:49 am
MJ, I find your taste to be a little self-contradictory. You say "fashion is art", and I agree (let me not elaborate in this thread). However, what I've seen from your posts (especially in "what you are wearing today") and the designers you are pointing out here seem to be mass manufactured luxury goods, opposite of what art is (they are just as mass manufactured as Banana Republic is, only on a different level).

If you go back and reread some of my posts on this forum you will see that I have admited to not being able to pull off some more "out-there" looks, but I still am able to appreciate a designer for being just that, a designer. I think people forget that when someone becomes a designer, for the most part, they are not doing it because they have a love for merchandizing, it is because they have a love of design. Again, I am not saying that I would personally wear a lot of more "artfully" designed clothing, but I would never critisize a designer just because my tastes were different than what they put down the runway. Now I am sick of this thread.

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by MJCouture+Apr 22nd, 2004 - 10:00 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MJCouture @ Apr 22nd, 2004 - 10:00 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-faust@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 9:49 am
MJ, I find your taste to be a little self-contradictory. You say "fashion is art", and I agree (let me not elaborate in this thread). However, what I've seen from your posts (especially in "what you are wearing today") and the designers you are pointing out here seem to be mass manufactured luxury goods, opposite of what art is (they are just as mass manufactured as Banana Republic is, only on a different level).

If you go back and reread some of my posts on this forum you will see that I have admited to not being able to pull off some more "out-there" looks, but I still am able to appreciate a designer for being just that, a designer. I think people forget that when someone becomes a designer, for the most part, they are not doing it because they have a love for merchandizing, it is because they have a love of design. Again, I am not saying that I would personally wear a lot of more "artfully" designed clothing, but I would never critisize a designer just because my tastes were different than what they put down the runway. Now I am sick of this thread. [/b][/quote]
Very well said. I agree.

 

[faust]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia+Apr 22nd, 2004 - 10:17 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(purplelucrezia @ Apr 22nd, 2004 - 10:17 am)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by MJCouture@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 10:00 am
<!--QuoteBegin-faust

@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 9:49 am
MJ, I find your taste to be a little self-contradictory.  You say "fashion is art", and I agree (let me not elaborate in this thread).  However, what I've seen from your posts (especially in "what you are wearing today") and the designers you are pointing out here seem to be mass manufactured luxury goods, opposite of what art is (they are just as mass manufactured as Banana Republic is, only on a different level).

If you go back and reread some of my posts on this forum you will see that I have admited to not being able to pull off some more "out-there" looks, but I still am able to appreciate a designer for being just that, a designer. I think people forget that when someone becomes a designer, for the most part, they are not doing it because they have a love for merchandizing, it is because they have a love of design. Again, I am not saying that I would personally wear a lot of more "artfully" designed clothing, but I would never critisize a designer just because my tastes were different than what they put down the runway. Now I am sick of this thread.

Very well said. I agree. [/b][/quote]
On the surface, maybe very well said. However, there is a big BUT, and that is it is too easy to stop a discussion with, "It's a matter of taste". I don't think that everything is a matter of taste. There are absolutes and universalities, so, "Beauty is in the eye of a beholder" is only partially true. You can justify all the ugliness and vulgarity in the world by, "It's a matter of taste." I also disagree that designers go into fashion for the sake of design, not these days. On the contrary, I think majority of the wannabe designers today go in for money, fame, hype, celebrity-status, social exposure, etc... Anyway, I won't pursue this further, I'm not trying to be hostile

 

[PrinceOfCats]

seems every time we have this type of topic you have something horrible to say about the so-called avant-garde. Which,btw,is a term I use infrequently. Why is it that having a different set of ideals and aspirations in fashion be deemed pretentious? Is it because it isn't sucked into the mainstream agenda?

I have a different set of ideals and aspirations, however I believe that avant-garde, conceptual or whatever you want to call it is nonsense because it has the pretense of not being mainstream. My favourite designers are Nazareno Fonticoli and Gaetano Savini - I am probably the only person on this forum who would hold this opinion. There are at least ten people who would say that Kawakubo was their favourite designer. Which of us is mainstream?

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by faust@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 10:31 am
On the surface, maybe very well said. However, there is a big BUT, and that is it is too easy to stop a discussion with, "It's a matter of taste". I don't think that everything is a matter of taste. There are absolutes and universalities, so, "Beauty is in the eye of a beholder" is only partially true. You can justify all the ugliness and vulgarity in the world by, "It's a matter of taste." I also disagree that designers go into fashion for the sake of design, not these days. On the contrary, I think majority of the wannabe designers today go in for money, fame, hype, celebrity-status, social exposure, etc... Anyway, I won't pursue this further, I'm not trying to be hostile

Everyone has their own interpretation of beauty or ugliness though.
The discussion would never end.

 

[faust]

Originally posted by PrinceOfCats@Apr 22nd, 2004 - 10:34 am

seems every time we have this type of topic you have something horrible to say about the so-called avant-garde. Which,btw,is a term I use infrequently. Why is it that having a different set of ideals and aspirations in fashion be deemed pretentious? Is it because it isn't sucked into the mainstream agenda?

I have a different set of ideals and aspirations, however I believe that avant-garde, conceptual or whatever you want to call it is nonsense because it has the pretense of not being mainstream. My favourite designers are Nazareno Fonticoli and Gaetano Savini - I am probably the only person on this forum who would hold this opinion. There are at least ten people who would say that Kawakubo was their favourite designer. Which of us is mainstream?

I doubt it. On the contrary 90% of the registered members will say that their favorite is Marc Jacobs of Tom Ford. Maybe we should have a poll!