Fashion - a question of reinvention?

[gruhche]

This is actually a discussion started under an entirely different topic and i think it merits some disignated attention.
So the questions is, is fashion simply a question of reinvention?

My personal opinion is that everything has already been invented, and the stuff that's truly innovative today is rather contrived. Please don't get off topic here. We're not talking about stuff that only survives a season or two. We're not talking about things that only fashion insiders take notice of. We're talking about Chanel still making most of its money selling the bag, the jacket and the perfume that were launched half a century ago.

The question is, do you see fashion as a straight line, advancing in an onward motion?

Or do you see it as me, as a gentle progression of revisited idea, as a spyral which is very close to a circle, where things don't duplicate exactly, but they invariably repeat?

 

[lostinemotion]

I think people want to stay with what is comfortably familiar. They won't stray too far off course, so just keep revisiting the trend that gets better as fabrics become more advanced.
It will only change if people don't have to bring their kids to soccer practice.

 

[gius]

everything is connected, isn't it ?
and related to something else ?

who is to say things done before had no relation to things before...
i remember someone saying a while back the mini-skirt was innovative
but a person can also say the mini-skirt is just a long dress with the hem cut up much higher and in that sense, a "reinvention"
do you see what i mean...

tell me something long time ago that you think has been truly innovative or moving forward


i think fashion is essentially related to what people want/need at the time.

 

[chessmess]

gius i agree
i think tech fabrics are one of the truly innovative moments of fashions, since that what the argument started with, liek the introduction of synthetics, like polyester. how massivley used is polyester nowadays...

 

[Dkammern]

i think it all a matter of cycles that come and go... not even a circular repetitive kind of thing, but more of an "8" or "infinite" path that twists and takes things from the past, adds new stuff, etc.
maybe we have the impression that the only innovation there is is in the fabrics, but i think that fashion, as an evolutive process has to be seen with some perspective and time. I am pretty sure that in 1967 nobody was able to say "oh, this is so sixties!" and reffer to it as a symbol of something that was new then and that they knew was not gonna be so fresh anymore after just a couple of years.
Maybe in 2032 some designers will take references from the early 2000 and we'll realize what really defined fashion in our days. maybe we'll end up realizing ours, is the time of the ethnic collections, minimalism and baroque coming and going, the shortest skirts and the higher boots... who knows!!
only time can tell really...

 

[gruhche]

gius i agree
i think tech fabrics are one of the truly innovative moments of fashions, since that what the argument started with, liek the introduction of synthetics, like polyester. how massivley used is polyester nowadays...

glad to see you joined the discussion chessmess

 

[gruhche]

Maybe in 2032 some designers will take references from the early 2000 and we'll realize what really defined fashion in our days. maybe we'll end up realizing ours, is the time of the ethnic collections, minimalism and baroque coming and going, the shortest skirts and the higher boots... who knows!!
only time can tell really...

I think you are right. We are all closed up in the box of time we live in, unable to look outside of it. It would be amusing if in the future someone refers to a recent year, when we in turn refer to this year as representative of things past (50's, 60's).
Still though, it would only show that things are, in deed, repeatedly borrowed. And I suppose, here I would agree with chessmess, that the only true innovations are in the fabric department.

 

[gius]

in that sense, it's only possible for innovation to really occur when there's a real NEED for something

in terms of fabrics, many synthetics were created for various reasons
like some natural fabrics are too expensive
or some naturals are not strong enough for certain uses
etc.
it's all based on a need

and one thing not mentioned often about the 60s is the COLOUR
it's only around this time that they were able to create such vibrant colours
like PURE reds...
generally natural dyes will produce hues that will have other hues, like a red will have parts of greens, yellows, etc.
but when they created the synthetic dyes, only the hue of red was captured in that dye
if you know what i mean...
so it's at its highest concentration
and that only happens in the mid 20th century

so, for me, when we move forward, it happens when we need something...

 

[SHSH]

I think that fashion evolves i mean you have the same items etc, but i think the materials have changed technology politics etc, i mean look at fendi and the amount of work and technology karl has put into the clothes and materials so i think fashion relies heavily on reinventing itself again and again

 

[gius]

i think design is all about reinvention
something in a new context

 

[Bidwell]

WAR is the ultimate catalyst for innovation.

We would not have parachute silk or NYLON (polyester etc) without it. We would not have cell phones and the internet either.

The fact the US has been in one conflict or another since WWII as well as being at the forefront of innovation is not a coincidence. But this is digression.

Form does follow function. We design what we need as Gius mentioned. We don't need wigs and crinolines but mobile, versatile clothing. We need comfort clothing in the form of retro styles that re-assure and the occasional fantasy to lift our spirits.
We need clothing for our dogs!

 

[fourboltmain]

You can't re-invent the wheel, but you can make better tires. That's how I see it.

 

[SHSH]

You can't re-invent the wheel, but you can make better tires. That's how I see it.

haha i like that

 

[manolocraver]

I believe that fashion can be reinvent but not entirely ... a little this and that and you'll get something fun and new to wear.

 

[gruhche]

Reinvention is reinforcement. Designers have no choice but to reinvent to remain relevant. They have to, however, stay true to what the clients come back to them for, to the core idea behind the brand and its staple attributes.

If you really think about it, all fashion is a question of "the emperor's new clothes". 99% of the time, there is no one to yell "naked", people just clap, admire and follow. And the ones they follow are on the top of the commercialized fashion pyramid, who in turn in need to be marketable (pertinent & wearable). My whole idea was there is nothing new in what's considered "wearable". They keep on throwing the same stuff at us, editors who have to sell their magazines call it "genius" and "a true innovation". In true sheep spirit, the public follows. And a lie told a hundred times.. There he is, the genius and his truly innovative collection. Until next season.. or the next show.

 

[chloehandbags]

This is actually a discussion started under an entirely different topic and i think it merits some disignated attention.
So the questions is, is fashion simply a question of reinvention?

My personal opinion is that everything has already been invented, and the stuff that's truly innovative today is rather contrived. Please don't get off topic here. We're not talking about stuff that only survives a season or two. We're not talking about things that only fashion insiders take notice of. We're talking about Chanel still making most of its money selling the bag, the jacket and the perfume that were launched half a century ago.

The question is, do you see fashion as a straight line, advancing in an onward motion?

Or do you see it as me, as a gentle progression of revisited idea, as a spyral which is very close to a circle, where things don't duplicate exactly, but they invariably repeat?

I completely agree with you.

Fashion is cyclical, not linear.

Almost invariably, anything worth doing has been done before and things that are regarded as both good and innovative, generally aren't actually one and/or the other.

The only exceptions to this rule would be advances that are made possible due to new fabrics and/or manufacturing techniques and/or a greater public acceptance of more daring concepts.

Some people go on about 'vintage', as if it's a dirty word, or use it to describe a certain look, but the truth is that almost anything designed today could, accurately, be described as 'vintage inspired', including things that are, apparently, habitually and (seemingly) continually regarded as 'new' by many; such as minimalism, modernism and so on.

 

[clay]

I say the eighties was the last decade that profoundly changed and moved fashion.However, after that it stopped and constantly has looked back over the last almost 20 years to previous decades for inspiration. As much as I believe everything has been done ( I really do) I have to have hope that fashion is is still evolving and I have something new to see and or create something entirely new if I so desire.

I agree the new frontier lies with technology, therefore we will get new and original
ideas in apparel and accessories.

Silhouette will not progress IMO. I think issues of volume have been thoroughly explored in all its practicality. Not to say that impracticality has no place in fashion though.

Reinvention is necessary outside of the last frontier of technology. I also would like to point out the notions of wrinkle free, water resistant, fire retardant, anti-microbial and things of the like are revolutionary even if we as "fashion people " pay little attention to them. Why do you think Dockers stain-resistant chinos make more than CDG will ever make. They fill a need and that is where fashion will continue to evolve. Basically the revolution will not be televised and therefore some may miss it as it happens.

 

[clay]

Sorry,meant to credit Gius and Bidwell for their comments in which mine just really added to theirs.

Cheers!

 

[gruhche]

I say the eighties was the last decade that profoundly changed and moved fashion.However, after that it stopped and constantly has looked back over the last almost 20 years to previous decades for inspiration. As much as I believe everything has been done ( I really do) I have to have hope that fashion is is still evolving and I have something new to see and or create something entirely new if I so desire.

I agree the new frontier lies with technology, therefore we will get new and original
ideas in apparel and accessories.

Silhouette will not progress IMO. I think issues of volume have been thoroughly explored in all its practicality. Not to say that impracticality has no place in fashion though.

Reinvention is necessary outside of the last frontier of technology. I also would like to point out the notions of wrinkle free, water resistant, fire retardant, anti-microbial and things of the like are revolutionary even if we as "fashion people " pay little attention to them. Why do you think Dockers stain-resistant chinos make more than CDG will ever make. They fill a need and that is where fashion will continue to evolve. Basically the revolution will not be televised and therefore some may miss it as it happens.

very well said, clay

 

[zzirvingj]

Very interesting thread, gruhche!

When you say you're talking about Chanel "still making most of its money selling the bag, the jacket and the perfume that were launched half a century ago....", I kind of see this as a matter of branding. In other words, Chick-fil-A is still making millions off of their classic Chick-fil-A chicken sandwhich. May sound like a silly comparison, but it's true. (By the way, anyone ever had their Chicken mini's for breakfast? They are sooo yummy. But they really are nothing more than chopped up Chick-fil-A chicken sandwhiches, LOL!!)

Some of the products people may feel a business keeps reinventing and reselling to their customers as a different product are being reinvented because the product is necessary to keep (the company's branding was built upon it and their client-base demands it), but the packaging (for instance) may need updating to give it a more "up-to-date"/current look.

I hope what I am saying makes sense...I may be back with more comments/clarification later...