Fashion industry internships: exploitation or experience?

[lottie342]

As someone who is hoping to have a career in the fashion industry one day, this thread is really interesting.

I really don't think it's right to have unpaid internships for extended periods of time. Unpaid work experience for a couple of weeks, fine. But I just don't like the idea of people working their butts off in an office for no pay. Less affluent interns might have to take on second jobs, which could lead to them simply not having the energy to perform to their very best at their internship.

I get that it's great for your CV to have internships at great magazines and designers, but I don't think they should be taking advantage of people who are desperately wanting to get a leg-up in the industry.

Although, I do believe that Condé Nast only do paid work experience (in the UK at least), which is why there is a lot of competition.

 

[Elondra]

Although, I do believe that Condé Nast only do paid work experience (in the UK at least), which is why there is a lot of competition.

I wouldn't consider a tenner a day as a proper wage but it is better than most places...

 

[agee]

To me the scary thing about the article in post #10 is what softgrey and that is that if the McQueen situation reflects the fashion industry (specifically the design house segment) in any material way (I don't fully believe the former intern but I don't believe the McQueen rep either), then either the industry is not on sound footing, and by not on sound footing I mean like pre-mortgage meltdown footing (although of course not as potentially devastating).

It may not be ethical or even legal, but I can see the logic behind someone allowing themselves to be worked like a dog for no pay for a few months if the ratio is something like five interns to 100 employees, because presumably opportunities are going to open up through attrition and assuming that they performed well you can see three or four interns getting offered jobs and the one or two who didn't either didn't perform well or decided that that company or industry not for them.

If 30-50+% of the labor being contributed to an established enterprise is unpaid then it's not exactly a ponzi scheme, but it's like a ponzi scheme in that it is built on ephemera. On the one hand I am thinking that maybe McQueen is (was) poorly run but at the same time it is partially owned by a conglomerate so presumably if they could not operate on their own, they had access to resources to help them carry out their basic functions.

I don't want to read too much into it and like I said, I don't fully believe either party, but the intern issue may be a symptom of a much deeper problem than a few jerks taking advantage of a bunch of eager and energetic wannabes.

 

[kathryn_163]

as a fashion student due to complete compulsory work placement next year this is something i think of a lot.

We hear a lot of 'horror stories' at uni about placements and to tell the truth the worst stories are always from Mcqueen. First hearing this i was pretty saddened cause it had always been my intention and hope to go there above anywhere else. Obviously though im sure the uardian article, as the press love to do has picked the most extreme situation and exagerrated it to within an inch of its life to create a more interesting story. However this does worry me, i attend university in Newcastle but it is the assumption that we move down to london for a year to take part in work placements which are always going to be unpaid, as well as pay full tuition fees to the university.
Speaking to students who have returned from placements, the general consensus is that high street or up-and-coming designers are the places to go if you hope to do anything more than errands and coffee making.

Personally i am of the opinion that the extreme intern situation is a product of the sorry state of the fashion industry at present (the term 'industry' seems innappropriate when taking into consideration that very few fashion companies make a penny of profit) and businesses trying to cut corners. I can vaguely recall an interview i read where, i want to say Stella McCartney but I'm not one hundred percent, was discussing how the way in which collections are shown so long before they are designed for, on sale months beforehand (for example, winter coats dropping now, in August) and so a huge number of people waiting for the time when they will wear the item to purchase it. By which time the item has been heavily reduced to make way for the next seasons stock. This system is wasting the design talent and sales potential of many and i definitely think that huge changes are necessary.

Apologies if that seemed too off-topic!

 

[kimberwyn]

I'm SO glad I read this since I hire the interns for my company. I always try to make my internships fun, hands on though, and to keep the workload light (no more than 1-2 hours per week).

But in a way I relate. I started a design "internship" with a local fashion label (which is EXTREMELY hard to come by since I live in such a small town) and I quickly realized that the owner of the line was only interested in taking my designs and not giving me any kind of hands on training. He also wanted me to post the internship on my fashion intern site which I'm definitely not going to do now unless he restructures his intern program.

 

[LifeNatureLove]

I can't speak for the fashion industry but as a freelance writer I see this quite frequently. Many companies/newspapers/magazines hire writers to keep their business afloat for absolutely no pay. Young people, especially, accept the position to gain some type of experience. I've noticed this is a trend often found in creative fields but I'm wondering if this is common for "technical" jobs?

 

[YSMR]

I was lucky in getting a paid internship after graduating (50 Euros a day), seasonal work at a showroom and the days were looooong but it was a good experience and they had catering so we were all taken care off.
But they did not paid everyone, I was lucky the person from HR though I was eligible for compensation in the interview because originally I was not going to get paid, such a lucky break since with the hours and weekends work it was criminal to do it for free experience or not.

 

[LoraV]

Oh, now i get why Andrea from The Devil Wears Prada didnt have money! Silly of me to think that, but i guess i would do some internship somewhere, just to get a peek. I don't think i would stay there for more then 3 weeks and i would not let somebody use me, as somebody above wrote that (the person) had to design 8 pieces for the designer! I guess that's the way it goes, but if i'm not hired as i get paycheck, i would not let anybody use my ideas as they own. Maybe sounds young and naive, but there are other ways to get experience.

 

[ColorScreams]

Interesting, but that's ~the way the cookie crumbles~. As Karl Lagerfeld says , "Fashion is an injustice"

 

[agee]

Interesting, but that's ~the way the cookie crumbles~. As Karl Lagerfeld says , "Fashion is an injustice"

There's different types of injustices. Correct me if I am wrong, but the injustice that Lagerfeld is referring to has to do with the people who succeed in the fashion industry and the degree of their success not being correlated to things like talent, creativity, hard work and the like. As bothersome as that is, that is vastly different and better than the notion that "fashion is an injustice" because designers are having their unpaid interns design significant portions of their collections and presumably are not giving the interns credit in any way or having a significant portion of their workforce consisting of unpaid labor.

 

[ari94]

Yeah many internships will not pay. I guess its the price you pay to gain experience and to put it on your resume.

 

[ettebe]

Interesting article.

My father disliked me doing an internship, seeing I wasn't getting paid for the work I was doing. Which was patterns for almost 15 hours and so forth. It didn't bother me not getting paid, seeing I was doing something I like and was perfecting it.

It all depends on who you speak to.

I am for internships as long as they turn into some sort of job placement within a year, but any longer it doesn't make sense.

 

[agee]

I don't think that there is anything inherently wrong in having intern programs from either the employee or intern's point of view, but if some of the allegations posted here are true, that means that some design houses have perverted the intent and spirit of internships.

 

[Rompecorazones]

I am one of those who couldn't afford to take up an internship while in school. Internships are truly your way in, especially in fashion world since everyone wants someone with direct experience.

 

[Dagmarre]

I work as an unapid intern for an online edition of a mainstream Polish fashion magazine. You can say that being an online intern is a lot easier, but in real it's such a hard work - sometimes I think that I'm just doing everything that people more experienced than me should do, e.g. I was responsible for doing the full coverage of the NYFW, which was quite exhausting when you realise the fact that I live in Poland (GMT +2) and this is my last year of the high-school there. That times I was taking about 3-4 hours of sleep a day, which isn't a good amount for an 18-year-old.
On the other hand, now I know how it is to work under a lot of pressure, I have a good thing to write in my personal statement and know everything about next season (now I'm doing other fashion weeks), which is very useful, so... I think that despite disadvantages it was a good decision for me to start my internship , I hope that in future I'll become an intern of a printed version of this magazine and later... who knows?

 

[hiven]

because there are so many people wanting a taste of fashion, there are many happy to take un-paid work that will look good on their cv. until this stops, which isn't going to be soon, the un-paid malarkey won't.

 

[Meg2109]

This is a very interesting discussion.

As a student I'm very lucky to have had positive unpaid industry experiences. However a classmate of mine recently did 2 weeks full time work experience at a well known Australian label and had a terrible time. She was over worked the hours on the contract and unfortunately experienced a very bad mannered designer who is seen very highly of in the media.

She's walked away without rose-coloured glasses but still doesn't know if she's right to judge that her extra pair of hands were exploited.

It can be hard to tell when you've only had a few industry experiences.

It is very unfortunate that some interns and students are perhaps exploited, often it can lead to an end to an interest in the industry. This is a shame when many interns are young students who could potentially replace today's industry workers.

But whatever doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger and experience is experience whether good or bad. But it IS a shame that cases such as my classmates occur.

 

[jettica]

I did loads of work experience and unpaid internships. Ranging from a few weeks to over a year. However, I was only able to dedicate a day or two/weekends to those jobs because I was in college or working.

However, that experience was invaluable and I would never been in my perfect job (with lots of money) at 21 without them.

It's just common sense. Don't let people exploit you.

 

[MUXU]

fundamentally, internships are set up so it helps inexperienced students learn on a job. i had done quite a lot of internships, some turned out to be great because i was learning things and some others felt like i was there helping the studio rather than the studio teaching me. but all in all i havent experienced any horror stories told by my classmates.

in one case. at a small designer studio my friend worked at, she spent a week along with some other interns as studio decorators painting the walls white. as well as fetching lunch for the designer everyday.

in the uk, the government has been trying to fix this problem by creating a graduate paid work scheme where a graduate goes to work at a studio for at least 4 weeks and get paid by the government for that time. after 4 weeks however, the studio can opt to take on the graduate and get paid by the studio.

but sometimes even this help can be abused. at another place a friend of mine worked. the designer took up this scheme. now, my friend knows this designer is a cheap a-hole and got curious to why this designer is taking on a graduate who will potentially get paid by the designer after 4 weeks. and the designer answered something like, 'who said i will be hiring that person? i will simply let him go after 4 weeks and get another graduate'
how awful

internships arent the bad person here. it is how many companies abuse it and cheating it that makes me quite mad.

 

[Chloe Parks]

I think both...but I heard the Teen Vogue one was serious exploitation