It doesn't take a financial analyst to determine that a lot of TFS members have a higher standard of living than the average person. Just look at the What did you buy today? and the What are you wearing today? threads. Either they have the money to spend or they are borrowing from the bank (hopefully it's the former and not the latter). So what's the big deal about having money? If you have it, might as be creative with it. Since I can't relate to the lifestyles that are described in some of the threads I sort of take offense to certain generalizations made about the "masses". There are a lot of smart, educated people who don't devote their lives to fashion but try to make do with whatever's available to them. My original view on this was that there are a lot of people who don't have the time or money to seek out new designers and they tend to buy whatever is easiest to access. It was no way meant to be an isult towards the fashion elite but more a suggestion that new designers find creative ways to make their clothes more available to the average consumer.
From Radical To Mainstream
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PrinceOfCats
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Your friends were wrong, completely wrong. From the way you talk about it I can see that you don't understand what classes really mean in Britain - Britain is a welfare state where opportunity is given to everyone. As in any capitalist country the rich can buy opportunity. It's a subject best dropped.
ignitioned32
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sad but true
[/b][/quote]Sad but true? Then you're saying you don't want indies to be mainstream?
I agree with faust and runner.
ignitioned32
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I don't think it's fair to group all avant-garde designers in one group. It's like saying all fashion designers are the same because not all avant-garde designers are the same.
Anyways, I say that because I agree some avant-garde designers are pretentious, but some are not.
ignitioned32
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I'm with Lena on this. Avant-garde is suppose to be the invention and application of new techniques in fashion. It's suppose to lead the way and it becoming mainstream, while not it's main goal, is like a given since you are/suppose to be leading the way.
PrinceOfCats
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I don't think it's fair to group all avant-garde designers in one group. It's like saying all fashion designers are the same because not all avant-garde designers are the same.
Anyways, I say that because I agree some avant-garde designers are pretentious, but some are not. [/b][/quote]
Designers who openly market themselves as 'avant-garde' are almost always pretentious, IMO...truly innovative minds like Chalayan and McQueen don't go around blowing their own trumpets all over the place saying what wonderful, intellectual design-geniuses they are...
ignitioned32
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Designers who openly market themselves as 'avant-garde' are almost always pretentious, IMO...truly innovative minds like Chalayan and McQueen don't go around blowing their own trumpets all over the place saying what wonderful, intellectual design-geniuses they are... [/b][/quote]
... and who do you think does that?
I think I know what Prince is getting at. You're basing that generalization on comments...two...maybe three designers have said. Trust me,not all of them are like that. And if they were I wouldn't so passionate about them as I am.
It doesn't take a financial analyst to determine that a lot of TFS members have a higher standard of living than the average person. Just look at the What did you buy today? and the What are you wearing today? threads. Either they have the money to spend or they are borrowing from the bank (hopefully it's the former and not the latter). So what's the big deal about having money? If you have it, might as be creative with it. Since I can't relate to the lifestyles that are described in some of the threads I sort of take offense to certain generalizations made about the "masses". There are a lot of smart, educated people who don't devote their lives to fashion but try to make do with whatever's available to them. My original view on this was that there are a lot of people who don't have the time or money to seek out new designers and they tend to buy whatever is easiest to access. It was no way meant to be an isult towards the fashion elite but more a suggestion that new designers find creative ways to make their clothes more available to the average consumer. [/b][/quote]
Why don't you ask As You Like It about how much she makes. Anyway, why is this thread becoming a question of money? Don't steer the subject away - let's stick to Quality and Creativity.
[/b][/quote]
The person who does not go beyond "staples" in his/her wardrobe is a bore. There is nothing innovative or creative in classic pieces. Classic pieces are fine to have, but they are luxury goods, not fashion. Do not confuse the two.
PrinceOfCats
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The person who does not go beyond "staples" in his/her wardrobe is a bore. There is nothing innovative or creative in classic pieces. Classic pieces are fine to have, but they are luxury goods, not fashion. Do not confuse the two. [/b][/quote]
If you make the asmmuption that fashion must be progressive...there is a lot more innovation in plenty of classic design than the staid, predictable 'rebel-clothing' the avant-garde-ists churn out year after year...
No it isn't Prince. You seem to be looking merely at the surface looks themselves;not the innovative way these designers cut to change a certain shape of a garmet or the experimental use of fabrics etc. That is,if you're making comparisons with classicists and avant-gardists who use classicsm as a platform? It goes beyond that...you've got to look at the craft too,you know? Actually,you're comment about how stagnant the avant-garde is to you,is really quite off-the-mark because its the reverse once you look beneath.
Prince,I have the utmost respect for you,but you often come off as rather narrow minded when it comes to this subject. Open your mind a bit more.
Prince,I have the utmost respect for you,but you often come off as rather narrow minded when it comes to this subject. Open your mind a bit more.
softgrey
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yes your royal highness...you know it is possible that there is something you don't know...
...your condescending attitude is rather hilarious actually...spoken as a person who reads much and has lived little...theories are all well and good...but reality does not always fit neatly into a box...
but i'll drop it...
I've lived in both Britain and Canada and I can say that there they do still have a classist attitude there. I don't think it is as extreme as that quote describes but I definately got a sense of it while I was there. It's more of a social stigma than an actually barrier. One of my friends used to tell everyone that her dad is an engineer when he was really a mechanic. She would also shoplift clothes and steal from till at her work so that she could have a more expensive looking wardrobe. I had another friend who lived in social housing but would brag about how she got her nail varnish from Harvey Nics. But they didn't lack opportunity... they actually subsidize post-secondary education much better there than they do here and even more so than the states. If you come from a low income family here you can a student loan but you still owe the money when you're done school. In Britain my one friend who's mother was living off social assistance actually got to go to university for next to nothing. She didn't have very high grades either.
PrinceOfCats
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Your patronising manner is rather hilarious - you could perhaps consider that I know more about my own country than you...but we'll let it drop
