Heels for Men
- Thread starter jj11
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***off-topic***
My point is, heels for men is too beyond society's comfort zone, just like women with bald heads (no offense to cancer patients) or women with facial hair. I don't think it has anything to do with sexism or being sexist.
My point is, heels for men is too beyond society's comfort zone, just like women with bald heads (no offense to cancer patients) or women with facial hair. I don't think it has anything to do with sexism or being sexist.
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^ I don't see women as inferior at all, they have just as many rights and opportunities as men do. And by law they're equal to men.
Like I said, if you saw a woman with facial hair, say a beard, would you think it's attractive? Would you think it's acceptable? The same way people don't view men in heels as attractive or acceptable. But say a man wearing a pink shirt is fine, because it's still within people's comfort boundaries, it's not as "shocking" as a man in heels. Women also have social limitations to how masculine they can dress...maybe less limitations than men but they're there for sure.
Yeah, pants for women were seen as "un-ladylike", and you'd be surprised at how many people still think so. When pants became available for women, they were eventually made thinner and more elegant, so that they DID look ladylike. So you can see how even when masculine pieces moved into the female wardrobe they were still under the pressures of what was feminine and what wasn't. Similarly, if you saw a woman today with mannish baggy jeans you'd think "Oh she's not very lady like" lol
So it really has little to do with sexism I think, and more to do with how much society is willing to sacrifice to have their women look masculine and their men look feminine. Heels for men seems to sacrifice just too much.
Like I said, if you saw a woman with facial hair, say a beard, would you think it's attractive? Would you think it's acceptable? The same way people don't view men in heels as attractive or acceptable. But say a man wearing a pink shirt is fine, because it's still within people's comfort boundaries, it's not as "shocking" as a man in heels. Women also have social limitations to how masculine they can dress...maybe less limitations than men but they're there for sure.
Yeah, pants for women were seen as "un-ladylike", and you'd be surprised at how many people still think so. When pants became available for women, they were eventually made thinner and more elegant, so that they DID look ladylike. So you can see how even when masculine pieces moved into the female wardrobe they were still under the pressures of what was feminine and what wasn't. Similarly, if you saw a woman today with mannish baggy jeans you'd think "Oh she's not very lady like" lol
So it really has little to do with sexism I think, and more to do with how much society is willing to sacrifice to have their women look masculine and their men look feminine. Heels for men seems to sacrifice just too much.
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The facial hair analogy is flawed. Women are genetically predisposed to having lighter and thinner facial hair than men. (Counting the number of hairs, they actually have more of them). There is nothing genetic about women wearing high heels and men not.
The kind of earrings/jewellery some men wear today would be considered "shocking" just 20 years ago. Even just wearing an earring would make people think you were gay.
Of course they do, because we live in a gender-fixated, sexist society.
Define "ladylike".
I don't think most people would bat an eye.
You write as like "society" was some kind of sentient being that could make decisions about "sacrifice". A society is made up of all the people existing in it, and their notions about "masculine" and "feminine" with regards to clothing are just socially constructed concepts that evolve over time. It's not something that is set in stone. And today, no matter how equal we are to the law, women are still seen as inferior. Not often consciously, but it's the message that is being conveyed everywhere.
As an example: dragqueens are seen as funny and entertaining because it's hilarious to see a man dressed like a woman. Dragkings are seen as subversive and dangerous because they are women dressing and acting like (stereotypical) men.
I've seen women with facial hair, natural AND fake. My point is, some women LIKE to have facial hair. It's seen just as undesirable as men in heels. I'm not sure if either will ever be "ok".
And "Ladylike" means "like a lady" (duh). It's anything you would associate with femininity. Things like florals, bright colours, frilly skirts. I can't even believe you ask this question. Ladylike is the conventional qualities of a lady.
And you seem to be forgetting that a few centuries ago men used to wear heels and show off their legs, and that a was a sign of masculinity. So yes, you're right in saying that society "is not something that is set in stone", but ultimately society decides what is "ok" and what isn't. Whether you agree or not is entirely different altogether.
You can argue gender as much as you like but at the end of the day heels will always be associated as feminine and tuxedos will always be associated as masculine. I agree that there is room for change (just as pants became acceptable for women) but at the same time I believe that our perception of what is girly or boyish is innate and is already built in us. I think it's somewhat naive to believe that 100% of our entire personalities is purely determined by society.
And "Ladylike" means "like a lady" (duh). It's anything you would associate with femininity. Things like florals, bright colours, frilly skirts. I can't even believe you ask this question. Ladylike is the conventional qualities of a lady.
And you seem to be forgetting that a few centuries ago men used to wear heels and show off their legs, and that a was a sign of masculinity. So yes, you're right in saying that society "is not something that is set in stone", but ultimately society decides what is "ok" and what isn't. Whether you agree or not is entirely different altogether.
You can argue gender as much as you like but at the end of the day heels will always be associated as feminine and tuxedos will always be associated as masculine. I agree that there is room for change (just as pants became acceptable for women) but at the same time I believe that our perception of what is girly or boyish is innate and is already built in us. I think it's somewhat naive to believe that 100% of our entire personalities is purely determined by society.
Street_a_Licious
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in regards to heels? uhm. no.
when i see a pair of chic or sexy heels, i think of a woman in those shoes. NOT a man. a regular build guy will make chic and sexy heels rather.... unattractive.
you want feminine pieces for men? try colorful florals and ruffles first. ribbons and bows. pale pink hearts dangling off of your clothes.
Exactly my point!!! Men CAN dress feminine and CAN be influenced by womenswear, but to a limit. Once you surpass this limit you go from attractive to wrong.
To be honest I'm a little frustrated reading this(which I always do when I get bored... and always end in frustration never commenting) but let's see if I can say something.
I think that men in heels is a possibility and a very near one. A few months ago(maybe a year IDK) i was reading a study and saw that alot of men were going back and adding height to their hard soled shoes. The effect was in a sense a heel... but not in the conventional notion. It was a heel that was thick, more wedge like.
Tom Ford even has a pair or two that are from what I can guess are 3-4 inches thick. it doesn't look feminine at all. Why, because it wasn't a shoe done in imitation of a woman's shoe. I think that when you say heels for men you have to think of it as that, heels FOR men. You don't want to think of taking a woman's heel and then just putting it on a man. That's not going to work. Just as menswear pieces weren't originally accepted for women by society at large. It was only after these pieces were reworked, had some structure taken out, made more form fitting, then people began to describe them as feminine so they were ok for women.
So, I actually think heels for men are OK, and possible, but they have to be conceptualized as heels FOR men, not heels just worn by heels.
I think that men in heels is a possibility and a very near one. A few months ago(maybe a year IDK) i was reading a study and saw that alot of men were going back and adding height to their hard soled shoes. The effect was in a sense a heel... but not in the conventional notion. It was a heel that was thick, more wedge like.
Tom Ford even has a pair or two that are from what I can guess are 3-4 inches thick. it doesn't look feminine at all. Why, because it wasn't a shoe done in imitation of a woman's shoe. I think that when you say heels for men you have to think of it as that, heels FOR men. You don't want to think of taking a woman's heel and then just putting it on a man. That's not going to work. Just as menswear pieces weren't originally accepted for women by society at large. It was only after these pieces were reworked, had some structure taken out, made more form fitting, then people began to describe them as feminine so they were ok for women.
So, I actually think heels for men are OK, and possible, but they have to be conceptualized as heels FOR men, not heels just worn by heels.
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customboots
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As a custom cowboy bootmaker, I tell my clients that cowboy boots are a way for men to wear high heels and bright colors.
Lisa Sorrell
Sorrell Custom Boots
Lisa Sorrell
Sorrell Custom Boots
You know, that does make some sense, customboots. I realized I don't really have any sort of heel for my feet. I also realize that my feet now somewhat fit a US Men's size 11 more than a US Men's 10.5. So if I were to test the waters of feminine shoes, I'd have to seek a US Women's size 9. I think the common rule of men's and women's sizes is that you go two sizes down from your men's size to determine your women's size. It's a common rule, but doesn't exactly mean you'll find your exact fit.
I do think cowboy boots would be a great pair of shoes to enjoy a high heel. Though, I would be inclined to go with some feminine riding boots.
I do think cowboy boots would be a great pair of shoes to enjoy a high heel. Though, I would be inclined to go with some feminine riding boots.
customboots
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John,
I think you have that backwards. Women's shoes tend to run smaller than men's shoes by about 2 sizes. So a man's size 11 would be around a woman's size 13 (good luck finding that!) Going down two sizes only works for women--I wear a size 6 woman's shoe so I'd need a size 4 men's shoe. (I don't think I'm going to have any luck finding that either!)
I would like to point out that there's unfortunately no final answer on sizing for shoes. A shoe or boot is built around a "last." A last is the wood or plastic form that determines the shoes shape and heel height. There's not ultimate standard for last sizes. I can start a shoe line and decide my smallest last (and therefore the resulting shoe) will be called a 6B. You could start a shoe line and use my same last models but arbitrarily decide to call your smallest shoe a 5A. Then my line would "run big" and yours would "run small."
Lisa Sorrell
www.youtube.com/customboots
www.facebook.com/sorrellcustomboots
I think you have that backwards. Women's shoes tend to run smaller than men's shoes by about 2 sizes. So a man's size 11 would be around a woman's size 13 (good luck finding that!) Going down two sizes only works for women--I wear a size 6 woman's shoe so I'd need a size 4 men's shoe. (I don't think I'm going to have any luck finding that either!)
I would like to point out that there's unfortunately no final answer on sizing for shoes. A shoe or boot is built around a "last." A last is the wood or plastic form that determines the shoes shape and heel height. There's not ultimate standard for last sizes. I can start a shoe line and decide my smallest last (and therefore the resulting shoe) will be called a 6B. You could start a shoe line and use my same last models but arbitrarily decide to call your smallest shoe a 5A. Then my line would "run big" and yours would "run small."
Lisa Sorrell
www.youtube.com/customboots
www.facebook.com/sorrellcustomboots
Salvatore
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I agree with what you said. There is a way for men to wear heels that are heels made for men like you said. The men in heels for women is just not a good look. There are some women that look horrible in heels (can you imagine), so how much more than would a man look in strappy stilettos ? No.
GreatOrion
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yes, aside from the fact that it's fake.
Salvatore
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..... did the guy at 0:16 say he is wearing Christian LAboutins ? And the guy at 0:53 say HERmes ?
I can't.
But on topic, I am not opposed to the wearing of heels and would not mind some for myself (although I am 189 cm already), but notice that most of the guys in that video that are wearing them have an extreme feminin essence to them which takes away the mystery and coolness.
It's just not for everyone.
I can't.
But on topic, I am not opposed to the wearing of heels and would not mind some for myself (although I am 189 cm already), but notice that most of the guys in that video that are wearing them have an extreme feminin essence to them which takes away the mystery and coolness.
It's just not for everyone.
