Industrial Design

[Arturo21]

Good design needs of stand the test of time. Good design never goes out of style, good design doesn't need an explanation either. Craftsmanship and durability are as important as the design itself as well. A very good point was brought up about things that need to break down easily, who wants a desk that doesn't fit in their doorway?

Anyway, industrial design is rather soul-less at most times. The first part of the word is industry and that conjures up images of mass production. Mass production makes me think about the first ergonomically designed, mass produced thing: the rifle with interchangable parts.

I'm still torn at what I can define industrial design as. Is the chair at Ikea industrial design, or is it the electrical conduit pipe my friends bend by hand to decorate their garages because they're bored?

Is it my car? Or the custom made exhaust system? The chicken, or the egg?

The chair at IKEA is industrial design, even though IKEA's designs aren't very original, most are copies of more expensive, higher quality versions. The pipes I wouldn't consider design simply because they didn't sit down in front of a drafting board or a computer and sketch out a plan, it is more of a handcraft. The car is industrial design, but only the visual part. The design of the exterior (the curves, the lights, the overall LOOK of the car - I would consider it an insult to industrial design in general if the bottom and hood of the car were considered design) and also the design of the interior - the seats, dashboard, etc.

That air scooter - do you think the "designer" gave a crap what it looked like? I don't..

Industrial design is not design if there are no aesthetics involved.

Thx for the article, travolta Very zen

 

[travolta]

welcome. i don't think aesthetics are too important in the air scooters case...do you know how long i've been waiting for a hover board?? ok it isn't that, but the point is..aesthetically pleasing doesn't mean ultra slick minimal! if that was the case how boring would the world be! it certainly wouldn't be appropriate for every single product...if that was the case it would be sculpture.

 

[Arturo21]

I never said ultra slick minimal...just..visually pleasing..

 

[fourboltmain]

Alas, my ride has arrived in the form of a superlight.

But Arturo21, the hood has everything to do with aerodynamics, as well as the bottom of the vehicle, some new cars have dimples on the bottom to reduce wind noise and reduce drag, letting the car hug the ground at higher speeds. And for the interior and engine to fit within the confines of a frame, the bottom of the car has a very intricate part in how the pieces work together and hold the vehicle in one piece.

 

[travolta]

fourboltmain i really like the table you posted earlier

 

[travolta]

did you study id?

 

[fourboltmain]

No, I'm studying graphic design and advertising right now. I got into that because I almost killed myself fabricating race cars. I like interior design, but I feel design isn't all it's cracked up to be. I appreciate the aesthetics, but I have more respect for the work underneath and I believe the people who do the actual labor deserve as much credit as the person who designed it. And I have been on both sides.

I like the table because I'm a gearhead and I love wine, go figure. I was going to start making flower pots out of blown up engine blocks I had laying around. I was going to plant daisies in them, you know? Like the engines were pushing up daisies. We all came to the consensus that it would make my front yard too white trash.

 

[Arturo21]

Alas, my ride has arrived in the form of a superlight.

But Arturo21, the hood has everything to do with aerodynamics, as well as the bottom of the vehicle, some new cars have dimples on the bottom to reduce wind noise and reduce drag, letting the car hug the ground at higher speeds. And for the interior and engine to fit within the confines of a frame, the bottom of the car has a very intricate part in how the pieces work together and hold the vehicle in one piece.

Sorry, you misunderstood me. The hood definately is part of the design of the car, definately. I meant under the hood.

 

[fourboltmain]

Dude, that's THE best part. It's ugly, but it's what makes it a car. The car is built around the engine. This is proven by one simple but unknown little point.

Take any rear wheel drive car and open the hood. Look at where the engine is. Is it in the middle? No, it's off by about 3 to 5 inches, to clear the brakes, steering and to slightly off balance the driver when (s)he is alone.

 

[Arturo21]

That's not the Industrial Designer's job...i'm not sure if maybe they design the layout, etc. However, I'm completely sure they don't get into the technicalities and actually work on making the car go.

 

[travolta]

fourboltmain those flower pots sound like a good idea. to be honest, i didn't even see that they were wine containers...do you do commissions? i like the flower pot engine idea...it could be borderline white trash, but it could also be really perfect. i say go for it.

arturo, industrial designs have to design around mechanics. aesthetics come last..you also have to figure in the cost of production. maybe hiding a seemingly unattractive bit would cause the overall cost to skyrocket..it simply isn't practical. besides most car people i'm sure wouldn't mind that bit exposed. a designer can start off with a sketch of what they would like a product to look like...by the end it hardly ever ends up exactly how they first envisioned it. even simple things like childrens toys go through extreme revisions because an extra detail means making another mold. industrial design programs teach students to make the engineers job easier by teaching them about designing holistically. i took cad, but it wasn't required, and we had to take apart hand held electronic devices and redesign them on cad. this included the mechanism which held the two halves together, the radius of the buttons, the circuit board all had to be designed and accounted for.
it seems really dry, and it was for the most part, but it was useful. i think highlighting the process and making it an aesthetic statement is something i find smart and beautiful. that is buddhist aesthetics right there. now that's zen.

 

[fourboltmain]

It's my birthday and I'll drink if I want to.

I find something VERY wrong with today. Old American cars were based on what rolled (or walked) out of Milan back in the 50's. You think paisley is retro? Look at a '53 De Soto. That's why cars are released in fall for the new year. Look at your door stickers...

travolta, the wine bottles were an after thought. I did not design that table, if I did, the glass would have hinges so I wouldn't have to pull the top off to get a bottle. People think a cup holder is ergonomically designed, when was the last time your cup fit in one? At 130 mph? It doesn't, and it won't. BUT, a small block Chevy 350 engine is 4.00" across. IF you're lucky enough to find a 400 small block Chevy, you get an eighth of an inch (4.00 + .125), that will accomodate BIG wine bottles (not standard .750 liter bottles) AND hold a 40 oz of malt liquor, plus six of your friends' drinks, while you're redoing the whole top end of a 500 HP engine, in the dark, illegally. That was always an after thought, because when you blow a motor, you're not 100% sure until you take off the heads. Cylinders are VERY good cup holders.

I do not do commissions, only because when I do, I find that I spend more time looking for the right material for the right situation. And that will take weeks and sometimes months, depending on what you want. That said, I've seen Maserati engines (1950's Buick 215 V8's), Jaguar V-12 transmissions (Chevy TH400 3 speeds), Ford diesels (International/Harvester engines) and Chevy HD3500 motors (turbo Mitsubishi's) slip right through my hands because I'm so honest with the buyer that I charge nothing for the hunting fee, which has once included a Buick 252 crank that took 8 hours to pull out. But I didn't use it because it could not be used in a car. The rod journals were gone.

I am SO picky, that I polish vintage aluminum manifolds, fabricate nitrous lines that WILL work and I put them on my wall. And I will not sell these manifolds to someone who will not use it. An original Offenhauser isn't worth anything if it isn't beat up, full of gas and nitro menthane.

Someone doesn't think that is industrial design? Old cars look stock, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference until that 66 Impala 4 door sedab whipped your BMW M3's ***. On the freeway. In the rain.

Sorry, I had to vent... But I feel like you all now understand my vision of industrial design. I'll be back later with examples of Dadaism and the repercussions that is now shock value.

I have a whole other arguenent that I will use on another thread about creature comforts that won't comfort your wallet.

Peace and love...

 

[Paullw]

It does sound more like engineering, however, that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with it, or even that its worse than industrial design. In many ways engineering is a much more skilled job than industrial design, you need to design something as complex as a car engine, or transmission, and make it work.

The engine looks like it does because thats how it needs to look to work, form follows function. Some parts are great looking, either due to incidental aesthetics, or simply that they are aesthetically pleasing because of the knowledge that they are finely adjusted parts, refined to work exactly as they need too.

However they are designed to be used, nearly all engines spend nearly all of their life just working, covered in oil and grease, hidden behind panels. Its a testament to the engineers that most people notice the appearance of the car, but not the engine, as there is nothing to notice, it simply works.

It does leave a problem with encouraging people to become engineers, unfortunately society glamourises the appearance of products over their workings, which makes up a lot more of the usefulness. It leaves a big shortage of engineers, as most are underpaid and underappreciated.

 

[Arturo21]

That's not the Industrial Designer's job...i'm not sure if maybe they design the layout, etc. However, I'm completely sure they don't get into the technicalities and actually work on making the car go.

Travolta - "layout". I never said that the industrial designer didn't work around and with the motor, sure, I doubted it - because I wasn't sure.
Sure, they have to design around it. And also some might design the motor's layout of the motor itself, but not make it work!!!

When I think of industrial design I think of watches, car exteriors and interiors, airplane exteriors and interiors, furniture, architectural features of the interior of a house, accessories, etc. Apparently I'm wrong.

 

[travolta]

happy b-day fourboltmain. that was pure poetry. i'm glad you guys are posting..to be honest i'm just a artsy chick who happened to decide industrial design was the thing to do..it was a lapse of judgement.

It does leave a problem with encouraging people to become engineers, unfortunately society glamourises the appearance of products over their workings, which makes up a lot more of the usefulness. It leaves a big shortage of engineers, as most are underpaid and underappreciated

yeah. i think in time the whole glamour of design will wear off...or probably mutate into something else. i think policies will changes...i think people will probably not change..(that is just too huge) i think there will be definately jobs for engineers, but it will be a little different...so much of id has relied on old industrial processes...machining parts, milling them etc..it will be no longer so. people throw around the term nanotechnology a lot, but i don't think the future is slick streamlined parts with imbedded computer chips..that's 60's future...i think it will be more custimized in terms of your own inner workings and much more natural and invisible

 

[Arturo21]

happy b-day fourboltmain. that was pure poetry. i'm glad you guys are posting..to be honest i'm just a artsy chick who happened to decide industrial design was the thing to do..it was a lapse of judgement.



yeah. i think in time the whole of design will wear off...or probably mutate into something else. i think policies will changes...i think people will probably not change..(that is just too huge) i think there will be definately jobs for engineers, but it will be a little different...so much of id has relied on old industrial processes...machining parts, milling them etc..it will be no longer so. people throw around the term nanotechnology a lot, but i don't think the future is slick streamlined parts with imbedded computer chips..that's 60's future...i think it will be more custimized in terms of your own inner workings and much more natural and invisible

The word 'aesthetics' is being misused here.

Meaning of AESTHETIC
Pronunciation: es'thetik

WordNet Dictionary

Definition:

1. [n] a philosophical theory as to what is beautiful; "he despised the esthetic of minimalism"
2. [adj] concerning or characterized by an appreciation of beauty or good taste; "the aesthetic faculties"; "an aesthetic person"; "aesthetic feeling"; "the illustrations made the book an aesthetic success"

Who said aesthetics is just glam? Is aesthetics now just for people who want to have a cute hot pink floral patterned chair with cute matching curtains in their cute, frilly bedroom? Aesthetics has personality, aesthetics is not simply designing something to make it pretty without thought to construction, materials, and yes, even the personality of it. This is like Versace vs. Raf Simons. Raf Simons is an aesthete, his collections have inspirations and symbolism, but most of all a personality, a feel..an 'air'. I am not the Versace know -it-all so I can't state that Donatella's designs don't have inspirations and symbolism, but I'm quite sure that whether it's in her designs or not..it lacks in it. Same principle can be applied to I.D.

It is not simply glam for the frilly.

 

[travolta]

i meant the whole glamour of the industrial design profession will wear off..or maybe not..right now it is up there with celebrity fashion designers.

 

[Arturo21]

I was referring to the words you had quoted in your last post.

 

[softgrey]

puh leez.......

anyway...here is a website that is making me crazy...
http://www.plusminuszero.jp/
i want one of everything...
the company is called plus minus zero...


this is the direct link to the online boutique
http://www.plusminuszero.jp/store/index.html

In our everyday lives are hidden things that appeal to our sense of fun. We decided to find these things and, using our knowledge of design, create a series of products that encompasses these hidden elements. Despite there being an overflow of items around us, people don't seem to be moved by them in any way. Maybe it's because they're tired of the mundane. they're bored. So we decided to reset everything back to +_0 and start making the kind of things that people really want.

The Product Art Collection
The theme for the first +_0 collection is 'Product Art'. Product Art is a new genre born inevitably from the lifestyle we follow today. Products that are highly reliable, they can be enjoyed in much the same way as art is. The collection consists of products found in our daily lives – household appliances, audio-visual equipment, interior furnishings and household miscellaneous items, but these products are sure to awaken your senses in a way that other products never have before. Product Art, while blending naturally into our lives, takes away commonplace ideas and common sense, and adds something that makes your heart beat faster. Not only the surprise you get when you first see something (First wow!), but also the feeling that suddenly hits you while using that thing; that 'Oh, I see', kind of feeling (Later wow!) await you. That's the beauty of Product Art.

THIS IS A HUMIDIFIER..!!..

 

[travolta]

thanks for posting soft. i think the humidifier is cute..but i'm not digging the rest. i think their description has a lot to live up to..but i don't think it delivers. to me i think their stuff looks like every other product. or maybe it was the english translation??