The End For The Kings And Queens Of Haute Couture?

[h_bazaar]

Originally posted by softgrey+Jul 7th, 2004 - 11:39 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (softgrey @ Jul 7th, 2004 - 11:39 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by h_bazaar@Jul 7th, 2004 - 11:29 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-mikeijames

@Jul 7th, 2004 - 12:20 pm
i want to know what goes into a two MILLION dollar show?  i mean i understand that price tag for some of his shows, but outside of the models and venue what could possibly raise the price by that much?  am i just naive or does this not sound like a lot of money...for one show?

Well, this is general breakdown of the cost of a fashion show:

01) Venue
02) Models
03) Lights
04) Music/ Sound
05) Stage
06) Props/ Decor
08) Food/ Cocktail
09) Press Releases/ Invites
10) Help (Stage hands/ Crew/ Dressers/ Co-odinators/ Waiters/ Users/ Event Organizer/ PR Company/ Choreographer/ Make-up & Hair (tho this may come free) etc.etc.etc. someone gotta pay these people

A typical fashion show cost about 10K-30K... But when it comes to a show like Dior where quality and image is EVERYTHING... The stakes are higher and thus more money is lavished on such shows...

isn't the cost of the samples part of the bottom line...?... [/b][/quote]
"Consequently a woman’s haute couture suit can start at around £15,000, while an ornate evening gown can cost a staggering £300,000. "

Judging from this statement, just the gowns for the show itself for Dior would cost about $8,400,000 pound since Galliano did 28 outfits, which in turn mean it about $12,588,484.08 euro (i failed Math, so correct me if i'm wrong )...

So how can that the cost of the garments be buffered into the whole cost of the show when it's only 2 million? So from the look of it... 2 million seems like coins if one look at how much it cost to make the clothes...

 

[Incroyable]

Originally posted by h_bazaar+Jul 8th, 2004 - 2:07 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (h_bazaar @ Jul 8th, 2004 - 2:07 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by softgrey@Jul 7th, 2004 - 11:39 pm

Originally posted by h_bazaar@Jul 7th, 2004 - 11:29 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-mikeijames

@Jul 7th, 2004 - 12:20 pm
i want to know what goes into a two MILLION dollar show?  i mean i understand that price tag for some of his shows, but outside of the models and venue what could possibly raise the price by that much?  am i just naive or does this not sound like a lot of money...for one show?

Well, this is general breakdown of the cost of a fashion show:

01) Venue
02) Models
03) Lights
04) Music/ Sound
05) Stage
06) Props/ Decor
08) Food/ Cocktail
09) Press Releases/ Invites
10) Help (Stage hands/ Crew/ Dressers/ Co-odinators/ Waiters/ Users/ Event Organizer/ PR Company/ Choreographer/ Make-up & Hair (tho this may come free) etc.etc.etc. someone gotta pay these people

A typical fashion show cost about 10K-30K... But when it comes to a show like Dior where quality and image is EVERYTHING... The stakes are higher and thus more money is lavished on such shows...

isn't the cost of the samples part of the bottom line...?...

"Consequently a woman’s haute couture suit can start at around £15,000, while an ornate evening gown can cost a staggering £300,000. "

Judging from this statement, just the gowns for the show itself for Dior would cost about $8,400,000 pound since Galliano did 28 outfits, which in turn mean it about $12,588,484.08 euro (i failed Math, so correct me if i'm wrong )...

So how can that the cost of the garments be buffered into the whole cost of the show when it's only 2 million? So from the look of it... 2 million seems like coins if one look at how much it cost to make the clothes... [/b][/quote]
The cost of an item does not reflect it's price to create.

 

[Acid]

Originally posted by Incroyable@Jul 8th, 2004 - 7:07 am
What's Primark?

primark is THE sh*t!!!!!!!!!

ok basically its a store for people on government benefits
all the jeans are made for people with big hips and bums because most of their customers are lazy and fatter than your average fashionista
and they sell the WORST WORST knock offs ever........they're so cheap that they barely resemble what they're supposed to be

however.......they have t-shirts SO CHEAP that its actually impossible to make them any cheaper. they are like £1........which is under 2 dollars
i customise their mens vest tops and everyone thinks they're helmut lang


about couture week...........well we knew something had to change to keep this going for longer
i think this luxury goods week sounds ok..........
it would be SUPER FUN if they presented the items at private showings......then at the end of the week they has 'auction du lux' where ALL of the items are auctioned off in a big big a-list ceremony imagine the bidding

 

[Incroyable]

Originally posted by Acid+Jul 8th, 2004 - 2:37 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Acid @ Jul 8th, 2004 - 2:37 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Incroyable@Jul 8th, 2004 - 7:07 am
What's Primark?

primark is THE sh*t!!!!!!!!!

ok basically its a store for people on government benefits
all the jeans are made for people with big hips and bums because most of their customers are lazy and fatter than your average fashionista
and they sell the WORST WORST knock offs ever........they're so cheap that they barely resemble what they're supposed to be

however.......they have t-shirts SO CHEAP that its actually impossible to make them any cheaper. they are like £1........which is under 2 dollars
i customise their mens vest tops and everyone thinks they're helmut lang


about couture week...........well we knew something had to change to keep this going for longer
i think this luxury goods week sounds ok..........
it would be SUPER FUN if they presented the items at private showings......then at the end of the week they has 'auction du lux' where ALL of the items are auctioned off in a big big a-list ceremony imagine the bidding [/b][/quote]
Ah, sounds like the version we have here; K-Mart. A hideous interpetation of an American dream gone wrong melded with capitalistic exploits.

Luxury Goods week doesn't sound terrible but it has the distinct aura of something people thought of as some "fun" event that somehow manages to be a slump. And then they keep doing it for some reason hoping in a vain way that it will catch popularity.

I think it would be better if they presented in such a way as the Geneva watch shows. I.e. where each individual label has an elaborate booth.

 

[h_bazaar]

Originally posted by Incroyable+Jul 8th, 2004 - 2:09 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Incroyable @ Jul 8th, 2004 - 2:09 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by h_bazaar@Jul 8th, 2004 - 2:07 am

Originally posted by softgrey@Jul 7th, 2004 - 11:39 pm

Originally posted by h_bazaar@Jul 7th, 2004 - 11:29 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-mikeijames

@Jul 7th, 2004 - 12:20 pm
i want to know what goes into a two MILLION dollar show?  i mean i understand that price tag for some of his shows, but outside of the models and venue what could possibly raise the price by that much?  am i just naive or does this not sound like a lot of money...for one show?

Well, this is general breakdown of the cost of a fashion show:

01) Venue
02) Models
03) Lights
04) Music/ Sound
05) Stage
06) Props/ Decor
08) Food/ Cocktail
09) Press Releases/ Invites
10) Help (Stage hands/ Crew/ Dressers/ Co-odinators/ Waiters/ Users/ Event Organizer/ PR Company/ Choreographer/ Make-up & Hair (tho this may come free) etc.etc.etc. someone gotta pay these people

A typical fashion show cost about 10K-30K... But when it comes to a show like Dior where quality and image is EVERYTHING... The stakes are higher and thus more money is lavished on such shows...

isn't the cost of the samples part of the bottom line...?...

"Consequently a woman’s haute couture suit can start at around £15,000, while an ornate evening gown can cost a staggering £300,000. "

Judging from this statement, just the gowns for the show itself for Dior would cost about $8,400,000 pound since Galliano did 28 outfits, which in turn mean it about $12,588,484.08 euro (i failed Math, so correct me if i'm wrong )...

So how can that the cost of the garments be buffered into the whole cost of the show when it's only 2 million? So from the look of it... 2 million seems like coins if one look at how much it cost to make the clothes...

The cost of an item does not reflect it's price to create. [/b][/quote]
Given a 300% markup for a product... it still would still indicate that the 2 million used does not include the cost of making the garment... no???

 

[Mr-Dale]

Originally posted by Incroyable@Jul 8th, 2004 - 9:07 am
Dear God Tara Subkoff in haute couture?

Even in Imitation of Christ I only found that military hat worn by Chloe attractive.

I think it's people being too cheap, and "pragmatic." One should know that in a very broad general statement that spending encourages economy.

What's Primark?

Yes....investing always makes the economy better...In Holland we have a worse economy then a couple of years ago because all the companies had so much money that they became afraid to lose and so they stopped investing...and now are economy isn't really good

 

[fuchimama]

Ungaro and Versace are no loss. Ungaro is too contrived and Donatella simply sucks at couture.



I will really only miss Nina Ricci. It has always been the most youthful house in Paris-- Balmain, does it still exist?



At least we'll always have Chanel, Gaultier, and Dior.



As for Tara Subkoff, she is, hands-down, the biggest poser I have ever seen.

God!, that girl tries so hard to convince people that she is above it all, so cool, so "It". Her desperation practically seeps through her pores.

The next time I see Tara in public, I will call her a k**t to her face. I mean it.

Oh, what ever happened to her collaborator, Matt Damhave? Did he fall off the face of the Earth?

Do you know what I do to phony, artsy boys like Matt? I kick them in the teeth. BAM!

 

[fouroclock]

Well there might be a possibility that Tara's "couture" can evolve...If we give her a chance.

Optimism, people. Optimism.

 

[Lena]

wow fuchimama are you always that 'intense' or is it 'one of those days'??

in anycase, welcome to tFS, i hope you wont go BAM too often cause we like it sweet and civil over here doll

 

[model_mom]

Ungaro and Versace are no loss. Ungaro is too contrived and Donatella simply sucks at couture.



I will really only miss Nina Ricci. It has always been the most youthful house in Paris-- Balmain, does it still exist?



At least we'll always have Chanel, Gaultier, and Dior.



As for Tara Subkoff, she is, hands-down, the biggest poser I have ever seen.

God!, that girl tries so hard to convince people that she is above it all, so cool, so "It". Her desperation practically seeps through her pores.

The next time I see Tara in public, I will call her a k**t to her face. I mean it.

Oh, what ever happened to her collaborator, Matt Damhave? Did he fall off the face of the Earth?

Do you know what I do to phony, artsy boys like Matt? I kick them in the teeth. BAM!

Those are awful big words and opinions for a 15 year old.

 

[Assembler]

"because most of their customers are lazy and fatter than your average fashionista"

Or they're a little bigger because they work for a living, don't have the money to pay for gyms and trainers, and have little free time for exercise because once work stops, kids come home. Primark is like K Mart? It's not like the people who used to buy Prada are buying KMart. Part of the reason these houses go out of business is that they're so exclusive they don't have a customer base to support them. That's their fault, not the publics. Or maybe because they give all their clothes away to stars. I've never heard of a star paying for the dress that they wear on th red carpet. Or am I wrong about that? The advertising is all wrong. They should be catering more to their real customer base. Wealthy, non celebrity women who will be a loyal shopper. Maybe couture clothing is too OUT THERE. At least that's how people view it, that may not be the reality. Women who are independently succesfull and haven't been introduced to couture except through the media, may see it as non practical clothing. If there was more of an attempt to show that couture clothing can be suits, etc. But just original, made for you, finest materials, etc. there may be a larger customer base. By making it a "show", I think it sends people the wrong message (how many people unfamiliar with fashion will look at a couture show and say "none of these clothes are even wearable!".... because the shows showcase extreme clothing. More of an extravaganza then a real attempt to sell. Atleast from my opinion. ) Maybe this is because I don't know enough about fashion, but I'm sure there are more people that don't know about fashion then there are that do, even among the wealthy, and that's the companies fault. Not all wealthy people who COULD be buying couture, grew up in that culture. But many of these companies have made no attempt to educate... and therefore they have a dwindling clientelle.

If you want people to buy couture, introduce it as something that can be worn without looking like a freak.

 

[*sayan]

ouch...

well,i kind of consider c diem , lina, paul harnden like some kind of couture for men, some new version of hand working and manual labor on each piece. i like that, i dont think it will compltely dissapear, just transform, like everything else..

to hear people hate like that on tara makes me feel shes a star..didnt think she was that big

 

[Assembler]

ouch...

well,i kind of consider c diem , lina, paul harnden like some kind of couture for men, some new version of hand working and manual labor on each piece. i like that, i dont think it will compltely dissapear, just transform, like everything else..

to hear people hate like that on tara makes me feel shes a star..didnt think she was that big

I don't even know who she is!!

 

[Mutterlein]

This whole thing about Haute Couture dying is stupid. Of course it is going to die when A) they rarely let any other brands enter the market and become legit haute couture producers and B) these brands keep producing dated clothes based on an idealology that is from a bygone era (ahem *chanel*). There are a lot of designers who create "haute couture" style clothes made for a specific client and made to measure just for them. They just don't get any recognition. And really, who wants to spend 300,000 pounds for a dress that their grandmother would have worn? Haute Couture needs new blood. Tara Subkoff had interest in the industry and she had some really good ideas as much as people laughed at her. It's people like her who can save it.

I look back at this post and laugh. Tara Subkoff, what was I thinking?

Although I still think the way Couture is now is doomed, the changes are starting to be made so that it will continute to be immediately relevant. We'll see

 

[zamb]

i think couture is destroyed by a lot of the rules that the chambre syndicale (the governing body has) also the magazines are very hypocritical in thier coverage of the couture. designers like adam jones etc. did show during couture week and they got almost no coverage from the big magazines, however tara subkoff showed a collection during the couture shows and almost everyone covered it. i think its on the style.com website listed under couture, no disrespect to her but she is definately not a couturier.
i think a way for couture to remain alive is for big companies to sponsor couture presentations of smaller designers who has the technical knowledge to do it. as it does require great technical knowledge to do it properly. also ppl like gaultier etc should take smaller designers under thier wings as couture apprentices. lastly the chambre syndical should loosen the rules a little bit or have a special segment for smaller designers who would love to do it but dont have the means to produce 30 or 40 outfits but may only be able to afford say fifteen and can still do a good presentation