Vivienne Westwood's "Active Resistance to Propaganda" Manifesto

[Melisande]

Viv is one of my favorite designers, and I agree with everything she says here. (Young people are not the only ones who need to heed this.) I do think it's poignantly naive of her, however...which, as an artist is the source of her fresh innocence and energy of course...

This problem goes way, way deeper...into the depths of our family values, school education, political history, emotional and spiritual development. The people who are already doing this already know this, and for those that don't it will take a hell of a lot more than a badge, a book and a fashion show...To truly manifest those ideals, every person will need to engage themselves in a lifelong, soul-searching journey of courage and pain that may shatter everything...everything we have ever held true and lived for.

It's all fine, I'm just worried that what in fact this may do is encourage pseudo-"revolutionaries" to go out and buy her badge and visit a few museums, and then not think twice about harboring racist views, harming the environment and generally turning a blind eye to propaganda whereever convenient: all the while smugly satisfied that they are part of a superior "intellectual revolution".

After all, Sartre, Said, John Berger...Einstein, da Vinci, Plato, Galileo...millions others have been putting such ideas forth for decades, centuries...

Anyway--long rant --that said, I'm glad she's saying what needs to be said...it's not an all-or-nothing situation, and is so important that even if it energizes ten people it would have been worthwhile. And it's wonderful that she is offering concrete tools, and not just words.

By the way, thanks so much Brian...this is great.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

^ But that is like saying, there is no point trying. Nobody else seems to be trying to move people in the same way. I am pretty sure there are many kids out there who think that Coldplay are the height of artistic integrity. Pah! Vivienne may as well try. She has the right credentials and at worst this movement can either fade into the background or become a minor Britpop thing which isn't ideal but it is something.

 

[nextnewface]

^ Agreed. At least she tries.

 

[Melisande]

No no, you're absolutely right Sienna and newface ( sorry for the rant...it's just such a crucial issue for me... ) I'm not saying there is no point...

--that said, I'm glad she's saying what needs to be said...it's not an all-or-nothing situation, and is so important that even if it energizes ten people it would have been worthwhile. And it's wonderful that she is offering concrete tools, and not just words.

Like I said, I'm glad she and others are trying. It's the best we can do.

 

[Karl.Popper]

Am I alone in thinking that a braindead, popular 'movement' is the LAST thing she wants to recreate?! I don't think she's imagining the idylls of a mispent youth all over again. Doherty is an imbecilic poseur. Her intent, it is clear to me, is an intellectual reappraisal of current culture. A call to arms to be critical, to be daring, to be novel and to seize on one's intelligence and apply it. The old enlightenment call of 'sapere aude' that Kant so eloquently put forward in his _Was ist Aufklarung?_.

Hence the reference to scepticism as a means of undermining what we so glibly accept as what is right in popular culture. Doherty and his filth represents everything that is iconically wrong - faddish, gimmicky, hollow and ultimately substanceless. But he appeals to so many who fancy themselves clued in to an ubiquitous 'scene'. It is not serious. Nor is it remotely intellectual. (I am tempted to call it childish. And Westwood is anything but.)

So no, I think she is being misunderstood, and radically misunderstood, if her manifesto suggests to you a desire to kindle some kind of counter-culture, contrarian youth movement of the type you suggest. On the contrary. She is harking back to the old enlightenment values of critical and clear-eyed individuality: a respect for intelligence, for old culture, for our intellectual and cultural legacies accrued over generations. A form of conservatism even. Old art over new fads. Rembrandt over stupid Che Guevera t-shirts worn by thousands of gormless who hardly knew the monster of a man Guevera actually was.

Let's not dumb down what she's saying. Apply yourselves.

 

[tiffany]

Vivienne Westwood is awesome

Completely agree!!

Thankyou so much Brian

Very interesting concepts, and I'm glad she's doing this. As someone who has just spent the last few months, for no particular reason, studying 17th century art, I would love wearing a Rembrandt tshirt Or rather, I'd love to promote the intellectual appreciation and creation of art (in all its forms)

 

[Deleted member 7575]

for someone who is so anti media and propaganda she still runs advertisements and contributes to it.

How revolutionary is it to make a statment with a fashion show that is essentially a merchandise display for luxury goods?

I am glad she is being vocal about it and it is preferred over silence...but it is hard for me to take it seriously.

In the context Karl Popper is suggestion I could appreciate it then. But then you have to ask if her noble ideas and intentions are only for those who can afford her clothing?

 

[Melisande]

Karl Popper I have no doubt whatsoever that that is Vivienne's intention, and that it is crucial that we all, as you say, apply ourselves by continually questioning everything in the media...and questioning ourselves...

I'm not sure who you were referring to when you said she was being misunderstood, but my concern in my previous post was that in all likelihood she WILL be widely misinterpreted by the masses...precisely in the faddish way we fear...

Mutterlein, I understand what you are saying...that is partly why I am worried that it will be misinterpreted as something merely superficially "cool" and lose efficacy. On the other hand, I do think it's possible for someone to criticize the media and utilize it as well, as it is possible to be part of a system while speaking out about its downfalls...in fact, sometimes it is more effective when somebody who is part of the system speaks out, because (as long as it's sincere and I think this is) the message reaches precicely those who need to hear it the most. It's a risk she's taking I guess because being who she is, this is the best way she can get her message accross...

 

[tinuvielberen]

"Fight propaganda...and, to do so, buy my overpriced propagandist T-shirts and badges!"



There are many reasons why people don't seem to think anymore. It's a fair question whether they ever did!

A significant proportion of people are, quite simply, sheep. They fall into belief systems without much reflection. Being forced to re-examine their beliefs causes great distress.

People who don't want to be sheep (call them goats?) would do well, I think, not to spend money on Ms. Westwood's badges, but rather to understand the logical underpinnings of propaganda. The following website is a beginning:

http://www.propagandacritic.com/

 

[LeLuna]

Man I love HER!!

 

[Arug]

She is great.

 

[Meg]

hmm, this thread is quite interesting and I agree with a lot of what you say karl.popper. I agree with the ideas she sets forth but it is perplexing that the means she is trying to revolutionize through involve what she is putting down ie. overconsumption, mindless buying, commercialism. And I agree, this whole culture can hardly be blamed entirely on the youth of today. Who do you think does the programming at the tv channels and teaches and supplies the youth of today? I hardly see the yuppies of the 80's doing some sort major intellectural revolution

 

[SiennaInLondon]

Am I alone in thinking that a braindead, popular 'movement' is the LAST thing she wants to recreate?! I don't think she's imagining the idylls of a mispent youth all over again. Doherty is an imbecilic poseur. Her intent, it is clear to me, is an intellectual reappraisal of current culture. A call to arms to be critical, to be daring, to be novel and to seize on one's intelligence and apply it. The old enlightenment call of 'sapere aude' that Kant so eloquently put forward in his _Was ist Aufklarung?_.

Hence the reference to scepticism as a means of undermining what we so glibly accept as what is right in popular culture. Doherty and his filth represents everything that is iconically wrong - faddish, gimmicky, hollow and ultimately substanceless. But he appeals to so many who fancy themselves clued in to an ubiquitous 'scene'. It is not serious. Nor is it remotely intellectual. (I am tempted to call it childish. And Westwood is anything but.)

So no, I think she is being misunderstood, and radically misunderstood, if her manifesto suggests to you a desire to kindle some kind of counter-culture, contrarian youth movement of the type you suggest. On the contrary. She is harking back to the old enlightenment values of critical and clear-eyed individuality: a respect for intelligence, for old culture, for our intellectual and cultural legacies accrued over generations. A form of conservatism even. Old art over new fads. Rembrandt over stupid Che Guevera t-shirts worn by thousands of gormless who hardly knew the monster of a man Guevera actually was.

Ok but a movement that has no followers, no adherents? Westwood beyond the fashion world is nothing. Popular culture is this awful juggernaut and the only way to radically change it is by working with it. The only example I can think of is how public opinion is the one thing politicians fear. Nothing else. Radicalism (or if you like Karl.Popper radical conservatism -ie something 'other') can't work in the same way today as it did in the 60s. People are simply too apathetic and the concept of protest looks like a archaic cliche to bourgeosie youth.

You can criticise the superficiality of the Doherty movement but do you think that movements over history have not recieved the same criticism? Was Byron lauded as a poet by the true intellectuals of his age or dismissed as a philandering wastrel? And the impressionists? And any sort of reformist movement at all. Somehow over time drink and drugs have sort of become part and parcel of artistic reform but that must be a matter kept separate from the issue at hand. At least there is poetry at the heart of the Doherty movement but I do agree it has spiralled out of control and become rather self-aggrandizing. Still, it is one thing to try and separate style and substance but another to undermine the importance of perception. Why do you think Westwood comparitively is far superior? After all her ultimate business is appearance is it not? Surely the ideal outcome would be a dual emphasis on substance and style.

As for individuality, do you think it is not preached every day in the schools? "Be the best that you can be", "don't let anyone undermine you". This idea of individuality can be dangerous thing because it is so often misinterpreted to selfish ends. To link the concept of 'conservatism' to 'individuality' does that latter no favours because of the connotations is has accrued. Reevaluating the vernacular will be important in how successful this movement can be.

But I do agree with you that historical evaluation is crucial. Knowlege ought to be cumulative but the idea of 'history' has become as offensive as 'conservatism'. This is why so many mistakes are remade, and so many movements rehashed.

 

[softgrey]

maybe in the united states the young women will wake up when their reproductive rights are ripped from them...

*looks like it's just around the corner...
watch out!!......

 

[Meg]

not likely, if anything, the youth of today has more conservative values than their parents. There are several studies on it. Besides, who voted that man in for a SECOND term? Certainly not you, but a wide enough of a conservative majority.....how do people feel that conservatism plays into this whole dis-illusioned society business if at all?

 

[Deleted member 7575]

not likely, if anything, the youth of today has more conservative values than their parents. There are several studies on it. Besides, who voted that man in for a SECOND term? Certainly not you, but a wide enough of a conservative majority.....how do people feel that conservatism plays into this whole dis-illusioned society business if at all?

Something to keep in mind that while in the U.S. the older generation in certain areas are overwhelmingly conservative the youth aren't. Most midwest universities are liberal contrary to how their states voted in the last election or the values of their parents.

 

[SiennaInLondon]

^ But that is absurd! Of course the university intellectuals are liberal! They always are. It is the masses of everymen who are conservative... it is they who loathe the liberals for some percieved slight and thus loathe their liberalism alongside. In England the Conservative Party has no chance in London and the student towns. Their strength is in the countryside whether it is with the landed gentry or with the poorer people. That is why Labour had to basically undermine everything about their party and stick a 'New' on the beginning to get in. They were tradidionally a party associated with the workers, the unions and thus the towns.

Student youth and other youth are two separate entities. Plus it is the voters who matter. I think Meg was trying to point out that young=liberal and old=conservative was a gross misconception.

As for conservatism Meg, I think it depends on your definition of the word. If you mean like Karl.Popper meant, that conservatism underlies all cultural movements of significance because knowledge cannot be disassociated from the past and from 'old' ideas, then it is crucial. However the word has negative connotations now and if you mean conservatism as an opposite of reform then no, it is a dangerous thing

 

[Meg]

Sienna, yes you have hit on what I was talking about regarding new/old mis-conceptions. If I have time tomorrow at work I'll look for articles regarding america's growing youth conservative movement and the intellectual liberals thing is so true.

 

[fixoid]

this seems like another "aim away from face" job

 

[Jadee]

Interesting thread.

I agree with Faust. It's hard to take seriously.
I share her beliefs but I don't see how you can turn them into a movement.

She's preaching to the already convinced and the poseurs.

"Fight propaganda...and, to do so, buy my overpriced propagandist T-shirts and badges!"

There are many reasons why people don't seem to think anymore. It's a fair question whether they ever did!

A significant proportion of people are, quite simply, sheep. They fall into belief systems without much reflection. Being forced to re-examine their beliefs causes great distress.

People who don't want to be sheep (call them goats?) would do well, I think, not to spend money on Ms. Westwood's badges, but rather to understand the logical underpinnings of propaganda. The following website is a beginning:

http://www.propagandacritic.com/

I agree.
Thanks for the link. You did more than her just by posting that link IMO.

You don't need Vivienne Westwood's badge to think by yourself and encourage the youth to do so.

The poseurs will buy the badge/T shirts and feel smug .
Some people just use culture to brag and feel superior. They see culture as a product. It gives them a status.

The already convinced won't change their way and continue to encourage people to read, to appreciate arts ect... It's an individual thing IMO.
It's about sharing culture as opposed to showing off your knowledge.