Vogue Italia March 2012 : Joan Smalls by Steven Meisel

[Marc10]

Wow at some comments in this thread. How how on earth is he "mocking" the black community? Meisel simply made reference to an urban culture of dressing, now when you call it from "black people", then you're generalizing because guetto =/= black people. It will be the same thing if he made an editorial with Harajuku references, aonother well known over the top dressing up couture, would that be offensive too? Meisel and Franca are always bringing elements from the street and pop/urban cultures to the pages of the magazine, but people always have to jump on the race issue for everything, even with a fashion editorial. What's next, calling them racist now?

 

[Deleted member 116957]

I see a lot of subcultures being mocked here, more than black people like cholas and those ganguro girls.

 

[LabelWhore4]

Wow at some comments in this thread. How how on earth is he "mocking" the black community? Meisel simply made reference to an urban culture of dressing, now when you call it from "black people", then you're generalizing because guetto =/= black people. It will be the same thing if he made an editorial with Harajuku references, aonother well known over the top dressing up couture, would that be offensive too? Meisel and Franca are always bringing elements from the street and pop/urban cultures to the pages of the magazine, but people always have to jump on the race issue for everything, even with a fashion editorial. What's next, calling them racist now?

I see what you're saying but Harajuku girls dressing that way doesn't carry negative connotations that have been used to demean a group of historically discriminated people. I mean the editorial is called "Haute Mess" aka hot mess. Thats extremely negative. And your argument on ghetto=/=black people has been proven wrong in this very community. Let a black celeb be on the cover of a prestigious fashion mag and people would have commented on it being "ghetto" within the first two pages. Its happened too many times for me, and many others, to think it was a coincidence.

Race and class aside, this editorial isn't even visually stunning. The styling is weak and doesn't strengthen the message while displaying the key pieces of the season. Its just a jumbled mess. I find it repelling morally and aesthetically.

 

[jmrmartinho]

Wow at some comments in this thread. How how on earth is he "mocking" the black community? Meisel simply made reference to an urban culture of dressing, now when you call it from "black people", then you're generalizing because guetto =/= black people. It will be the same thing if he made an editorial with Harajuku references, aonother well known over the top dressing up couture, would that be offensive too? Meisel and Franca are always bringing elements from the street and pop/urban cultures to the pages of the magazine, but people always have to jump on the race issue for everything, even with a fashion editorial. What's next, calling them racist now?

you´ve said it all!

 

[agee]

I don't automatically consider magazine editorials as art, some could be but it is not a given. Vogue Italia is an advertiser supported magazine owned by a media conglomerate. Steven Meisel is a photographer with a contract and my guess is it is a pretty lucrative one. The clothes featured in the editorials are likely from the latest collections. Good or bad, editorials in Vogue and other major magazines are first and foremost commercial projects, if art is produced, that is a happy accident.

 

[alonsoJonathan]

^

so confuse! @_@ lol

 

[JustABoy]

I see what you're saying but Harajuku girls dressing that way doesn't carry negative connotations that have been used to demean a group of historically discriminated people. I mean the editorial is called "Haute Mess" aka hot mess. Thats extremely negative. And your argument on ghetto=/=black people has been proven wrong in this very community. Let a black celeb be on the cover of a prestigious fashion mag and people would have commented on it being "ghetto" within the first two pages. Its happened too many times for me, and many others, to think it was a coincidence.

Race and class aside, this editorial isn't even visually stunning. The styling is weak and doesn't strengthen the message while displaying the key pieces of the season. Its just a jumbled mess. I find it repelling morally and aesthetically.

I've noticed what you're saying about people commenting on black cover stars here, but I don't think that a few perhaps racist, perhaps just not politically correct people are representative of the TFS community as a whole. We're not all closet racists.

Re: hot mess, plenty of editorials have used the term mess in their title -- dressy messy, whatever. It's certainly depicting a style that is not buttoned up suit dressing, but fashion would be boring if that's all it were. Is it so entirely, utterly impossible for you to conceive that the people who make these editorials are trying to capture something they actually admire? If it is, I don't think there's any debating with you. You seem to be suggesting that this is really just a big mockery of some culture that is somehow supposed to represent an entire racial group.

To me, that's just the silliest thing to assume, and one that speaks to your negative views of the people whose style inspired this ed, not to mention people who work in the fashion industry, the people who like this editorial, etc. I like it, and it's not because I'm laughing at how black folks dress, nor because i'm somehow totally unaware of the stereotypes about black people that traffic in some places.

Finally, the japanese/people of asian descent more generally are also members of a group that has historically suffered from discrimination and which to this day negative stereotypes abound, yet you seem curiously unable to see why this and an ed inspired by harajuku styling (no more representative of that group that this is of black people) aren't the same phenomenon. They are; if one isn't de facto offensive, why would the other be?

 

[cottonmouth13]

Now this is an issue of Vogue Italia cause it's being talked about so much since the entirety of the main editorial was posted. To be honest, I don't find any offensive thing to the main editorial at all. Although I'm not black. Because quiet frankly, I think it's actually nice and Meisel pulled off very well the Ghetto reference thing. How could it be mocking? I just don't get it. I think he's just doing his job here as a photographer and toying with a certain idea like this one. Kudos to both Meisel for coming up with a story like this.

Looking forward to seeing Guinevere by Sundsbo and Zimmer by Aldridge. Thanks for the review tentalicious!

 

[thankyouhon]

I personally think the editorial has racist undertones. Even if you can't see racism here, there is still classism. I see these images and all I see are girls wearing expensive clothes mimicking what "poor people" look like.

Like others have said, it's particularly shocking since Meisel is an American photographer. You would think he would know better. Then you add the fact that the first VI cover for a black model in four years and it has a main editorial mocking "ghetto" style. It's pretty messed up.

The saddest thing about this shoot is that a lot of people (as shown on here and other sites) don't seem have a problem with it, so crap like this will continue to get made and no doubt you'll have a few copy cats doing "ghetto" style stories within the next few months.

 

[_incognito]

I personally think the editorial has racist undertones. Even if you can't see racism here, there is still classism. I see these images and all I see are girls wearing expensive clothes mimicking what "poor people" look like.

Like others have said, it's particularly shocking since Meisel is an American photographer. You would think he would know better. Then you add the fact that the first VI cover for a black model in four years and it has a main editorial mocking "ghetto" style. It's pretty messed up.

The saddest thing about this shoot is that a lot of people (as shown on here and other sites) don't seem have a problem with it, so crap like this will continue to get made and no doubt you'll have a few copy cats doing "ghetto" style stories within the next few months.

I 100% agree.

I think it's pretty evident that a lot of people commenting here are pretty ignorant of the sociocultural implications of a photoshoot like this in an expensive fashion magazine....

 

[Ives927]

I really don't see the editorial as a mockery of how poor people dress. It's about poor taste exaggerated to the max. I also don't think this editorial has anything to do with African Americans. If anything, it's about cholas.

 

[LabelWhore4]

I really don't see the editorial as a mockery of how poor people dress. It's about poor taste exaggerated to the max. I also don't think this editorial has anything to do with African Americans. If anything, it's about cholas.

Take a look at the pics in this link and let me know if you still feel the same way...
http://fashin.livejournal.com/6519606.html?thread=263820342#t263820342

 

[_incognito]

I really don't see the editorial as a mockery of how poor people dress. It's about poor taste exaggerated to the max. I also don't think this editorial has anything to do with African Americans. If anything, it's about cholas.

The styling is lifted almost literally from those of stereotypically "ghetto" black women, so I think you're wrong there.

Take a look at the pics in this link and let me know if you still feel the same way...
http://fashin.livejournal.com/6519606.html?thread=263820342#t263820342

We posted the exact same link at the exact same time.

 

[LabelWhore4]

We think alike. But it really sends the perfect message about the "inspiration" for this mess.

 

[justaguy]

Loving Haute Mess!

 

[Ives927]

Never knew the candy wrappers in the hair was a real thing. Thought it was just for the sake of the editorial. What a strange thing to do.

 

[Kanna]

Thanks for the full review, tentalicious. I do care and am interested

So this is another controversial story by Meisel. Don't know if it was their intention to show it just as it is, but there's something provocative about it which makes seers uncomfortable. And I wouldn't call it 'haute' mess. It's just a mess.
BTW, I'm admiring how far Meisel can go from the classic and picturesque to this. A chameleon.

 

[Nepenthes]

Wow at some comments in this thread. How how on earth is he "mocking" the black community? Meisel simply made reference to an urban culture of dressing, now when you call it from "black people", then you're generalizing because guetto =/= black people. It will be the same thing if he made an editorial with Harajuku references, aonother well known over the top dressing up couture, would that be offensive too? Meisel and Franca are always bringing elements from the street and pop/urban cultures to the pages of the magazine, but people always have to jump on the race issue for everything, even with a fashion editorial. What's next, calling them racist now?

Thank you.

 

[rubyshimmer]

Meisel could've really done something amazing with this. I know that poor black people's creativity is mocked, but there are some really creative and artistic things that black "ghetto" hair stylists are doing, way more creative than "high" fashion hair types like LeMindu for example. Meisel could've shown the beauty, and unique artistry in some of these hair pieces. Instead, he just literally copies and pastes on the models, and thinks its enough. I guess he was just going for a cheap laugh.

 

[fantastical]

Exactly. I was waiting to see the editorial before jumping to this conclusion but its pretty obvious to people who have seen this in real life. Theres more than one way to be a hot mess but they focused on poking fun at a particular segment of the black community in America. I'm not expecting people from outside the US to fully grasp this (Franca gets a pass i guess), but Meisel knew damned well what he was doing with this particular story. I'm sure many African Americans, of all walks of life, will be deeply offended by this. Some already were when they saw the previews.

Black people with questionable taste are hardly ever called tacky, they are referred to as ghetto (which some people in this thread have already eluded to or blatantly said) and thats exactly what this ed is making fun of. Don't even get me started on the fact that they chose THIS ed/issue to finally put a black women on the cover again. That leaves a particularly bad taste in my mouth because it kind of takes away some of the the sparkle and reverence of Joan's major achievement imo. She deserved better...

you both have said it all. I am disgusted, and therefore will not be purchasing this issue
whereas, I had originally had all intentions of supporting Joan
I don't want the sales to reflect this as being "acceptable"