Yasser Arafat Dies At 75

[Sloan]

rip

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by sugarpea@Nov 11 2004, 11:13 PM
celinechic...do you at least understand my point? im not here to badger you or anyone...my point was that from a philosophical standpoint, i see no difference, in terms of morality, between the PLO's terrorism and the governmental activity of israel...for this reason, just because i do not refer to sharon as a terrorist, does not mean that i do not condemn his behavior...in many ways, i think we agree...i just dont think it is right to call sharon a terrorist...especially if you want to have your points taken seriously...it suggests a lack of understanding of international relations.

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I was not addressing you. I was addressing someone who is blind sighted by things that are regurgitated to her.

 

[kragirl]

How would you know if she's blindsighted, there were definitely some not so good aspects that arafat presented in the past 15 years, but they should just let the man rest in peace.

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by CelineChic@Nov 12 2004, 12:18 PM
I was not addressing you. I was addressing someone who is blind sighted by things that are regurgitated to her.

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Thank you kragirl, and regardless of whether you agree with what I'm saying, Celine Chic, I don't think that personal attacks are appropriate here.

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Nov 12 2004, 04:47 AM
Oh yes- I know, the evil Israelis totally live to deprive poor, sweet dying men of their last wishes... Be serious here, it's a matter of politics and being safe. Sometimes adorable old men can't get there way if it means that lives will hopefully be saved. There's a much bigger going on than him getting what he wants.

By the way, I totally think that people ought to be killed, so that Arafat can get what he'd have liked. Israel's had its way for way to long, I say that all of the citizens be attacked and gotten rid of. Arafat was such a wonderfully peaceful man, he would definately have wanted that to happen.

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A comment like that is just insulting. Do your research, and maybe people won't ask you to stay in school.

 

[ahhGucci]

There is going to be much unrest in Palestine (more than usual) due to Arafat not leaving a clear successor.

There are a few of the old PLO old gaurd that are in line for succession, however, they were all exhiled from the country during the crucial years.

Hamas, the group for an Islamic state that covers all of Palestine and Jerusalem have stated their claim, claiming Arafat was like a father to them. I sincerely hope they do not control palestine, keeping a leader of Hamas alive from helicopter assasinations for long is something thats very rare.

Islamic Jihad, a group that supposedly does exactly what it says on the tin, also want power.

There are numerous other groups, Hamas seems most likely to take power.
I sincerely hope not.

 

[ahhGucci]

Originally posted by sugarpea@Nov 12 2004, 03:19 AM
i would not call sharon a terrorist....terrorism involves the intentional targeting of civilians as a means to achieving their goals. under this definition, sharon is not a terrorist. that said, i do not see the moral differences between a terrorists' actions and sharon's, one is not worse than the other.

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Terrorism: Deifinition.
One who utilizes the systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve political objectives, while disguised as a civilian non-combatant. The use of a civilian disguise while on operations exempts the perpetrator from protection under the Geneva Conventions, and consequently if captured they are liable for prosecution as common criminals.

Please note this is one of many definitions of terrorism.

Remember, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

 

[purplelucrezia]

"The decision of the Palestinian leadership is that it is opposed to attacks against Palestinian and Israeli civilians. We reject such attacks against civilians."
-Yasser Arafat

 

[kragirl]

Originally posted by ahhGucci@Nov 12 2004, 05:11 PM
A comment like that is just insulting. Do your research, and maybe people won't ask you to stay in school.

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Duh, she meant that not as an insult, but merely what someonoe was probably
echoing

 

[purplelucrezia]

It's good, I do love the gucci man.

 

[kragirl]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Nov 12 2004, 06:16 PM
It's good, I do love the gucci man.

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ok

 

[Vintage Mischa]

Originally posted by CelineChic@Nov 11 2004, 05:09 PM
Sharon is a douche bag bully as far as I'm concerned. Then he has the douche bag Americans giving his army military equipment like tanks, guns and grenades!

THe Israeli army has all those weapons and the Palestinians are left throwing rocks. Isn't that fair!

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throwing rocks? i believe they have enough bombs and little children to kill many innocent people

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by Vintage Mischa@Nov 12 2004, 07:08 PM
throwing rocks? i believe they have enough bombs and little children to kill many innocent people

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Are you ********? THe Palestinians have bombs?! That is the the funniest thing I've ever read! And what do children have to do with that? Canada has many children, does that mean they're a threat?

They have absolutely no military weapons that would match up to what the AMericans give to the jews. All they have is homemade bombs that they probably learned to make on the internet.

 

[Vintage Mischa]

Originally posted by CelineChic@Nov 13 2004, 12:11 PM
Are you ********? THe Palestinians have bombs?! That is the the funniest thing I've ever read! And what do children have to do with that? Canada has many children, does that mean they're a threat?

They have absolutely no military weapons that would match up to what the AMericans give to the jews. All they have is homemade bombs that they probably learned to make on the internet.

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What do children have to with it??? The arabs take their kids and strap bombs on them to kill innocent people. Now those are normal people? Oh no wait they believe that killing people is good and they'll be rewarded for it in their afterlife-- oh and i'm ********?

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by Vintage Mischa@Nov 13 2004, 01:41 PM
What do children have to with it??? The arabs take their kids and strap bombs on them to kill innocent people. Now those are normal people? Oh no wait they believe that killing people is good and they'll be rewarded for it in their afterlife-- oh and i'm ********?

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That has to be the dumbest thing I've heard yet! Where are you getting this hilarious material?


THey do use a lot of car bombs...maybe you misread the word "car" with "kid"?

WOW my tummy is hurting from laughing

 

[Vintage Mischa]

Originally posted by CelineChic@Nov 13 2004, 03:11 PM


That has to be the dumbest thing I've heard yet! Where are you getting this hilarious material?
THey do use a lot of car bombs...maybe you misread the word "car" with "kid"?

WOW my tummy is hurting from laughing

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To the idiot above READ THIS IF YOU KNOW HOW
and there's plenty more where this came from, be educated before you speak in the future
BBC Interview with Hussam Abdo, Arab Suicide Bomber, Age 15, Who Didn't Push the Button...

- Comments by Jared Israel -
Editor, Emperor's Clothes

[Posted 18 July 2004]

========================================================

Comments

Below is a July 16th BBC interview with Hussam Abdo.

The interview is remarkable, first of all, because Hussam Abdo is alive to give it. Three months ago, on 24 March 2004, Hussam, then 15 years old, was sent by Yassar Arafat's Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades to blow himself up at the Hawara Checkpoint in the West Bank.

The checkpoint is a busy place. If Hussam Abdo had completed his mission he might have killed not only Israeli soldiers but also many of the 200-300 Arab civilians who were gathered there. [1]

Fortunately Israeli soldiers spotted something bulky under the boy's jacket and shouted for everyone to run for cover. Then two things happened: Hussam Abdo decided not to push the detonator; and Israeli troops sent a robot to Hussam with a pair of scissors and then patiently talked him through removing a vest filled with explosives and nails, instead of simply shooting him.

For many people the Hussam Abdo footage was an eye-opener. Hussam's age (he was a *young* 15) and the manifest kindness of the Israeli troops simply did not fit the notion, fostered by the mass media and politicians, that Palestinian suicide terrorists are supposedly making a Political Statement because they have been Driven to Despair by supposedly Hateful Jewish people. The usual explanation is, "What else can they do?" It was as if that line was fashioned in one world, while Hussam and the Israeli troops dwelt in another.

The July 16th BBC interview provides further food for thought. As you read it you might want to ask yourself, 'Why would Hussam Abdo see blowing himself up as a reasonable way to get out of going to school?'

Let me provide a clue. After he was arrested at the Hawara Checkpoint, Hussam was interviewed by the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot. A few English language newspapers published the Associated Press summary of that interview:

[Excerpt from AP report starts here]

"Abdo said he wanted to reach paradise, which he was taught in school was the reward for suicide bombers.

"'A river of honey, a river of wine and 72 virgins. Since I have been studying Koran I know about the sweet life that waits there (in Paradise),'" the newspaper quoted the boy as saying.

AP report published by USA Today; 25 March 2004; "Israelis stop boy wearing bomb vest"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-03...deast-boy_x.htm

[Excerpt from AP report ends here]

So it was *in school* that Hussam learned that suicide terrorists are rewarded in a heaven of earthly delights! As you may or may not be aware, Palestinian schools are tightly controlled by Yassar Arafat's Palestinian Authority. That is the same Yassar Arafat whose forces also control the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade which, according to Hussam, recruited him to be a "martyr" at his school. (See BBC interview.)

Hussam expresses no animosity towards Israelis. He says the soldiers treated him well. He says he expects there to be peace between Arabs and Jews. He says he was relieved when, on March 24th, an Israeli doctor let him use a cell phone to call his mother and then, when his mother wept, took the phone and spoke to her. According to Hussam:

"He said don't worry about your son, he's fine, we'll take care of him."

The boy acknowledges this. He says he would warn any boy being sent on a suicide mission not to go:

"I would stop him because if he got caught he would go to prison and it's not a nice place and he shouldn't be away from his parents."

And yet at the same time he still says that to blow oneself up in a crowd of Jews is life's loftiest achievement:

"It's better than being a singer or a footballer. It's better than everything."

Emperor's Clothes has posted several pieces examining the political psychology of suicide terror, that is, how it is made possible by the mass indoctrination of Arabs, especially impressionable children, and how it is used to achieve the mass indoctrination of Westerners. These articles are listed at the end, under Further Reading. [2]

By the way, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades at first took "credit" for the heroic act of sending Hussam to martyr himself (and many others!) at Hawara Checkpoint. But then, when by some miracle Hussam didn't kill himself, and by some further miracle some of the media covered what had happened so that people could see Hussam was only a child, Al Aqsa denied they had sent him, claiming it was all a fabrication of Israeli propagandists. [3]

Al Aqsa's attempt to rewrite history in real time was awkward due to Al Aqsa having just taken "credit" for sending Hussam, and due to Hussam's mother, who had the rare courage to give interviews denouncing these "heroes" who recruited her son, and due to the fact that the whole thing was filmed by reporters. I've posted a page of pictures of Hussam Abdo at Hawara Checkpoint. You can access the pictures at http://emperor.vwh.net/abdo/abdopics.htm

Below is the BBC interview.

Jared Israel
Editor, Emperor's Clothes

***


'Nobody is going to live forever'

By James Reynolds
BBC Jerusalem correspondent


** It was an unforgettable image. A teenager standing alone at a checkpoint, explosives strapped to his chest, confused, trying to follow Israeli orders to get him to dismantle his bomb. **

 

[Vintage Mischa]

Originally posted by CelineChic@Nov 13 2004, 03:11 PM


That has to be the dumbest thing I've heard yet! Where are you getting this hilarious material?
THey do use a lot of car bombs...maybe you misread the word "car" with "kid"?

WOW my tummy is hurting from laughing

[snapback]430139[/snapback]​

To the idiot above READ THIS IF YOU KNOW HOW
and there's plenty more where this came from, be educated before you speak in the future
BBC Interview with Hussam Abdo, Arab Suicide Bomber, Age 15, Who Didn't Push the Button...

- Comments by Jared Israel -
Editor, Emperor's Clothes

[Posted 18 July 2004]

========================================================

Comments

Below is a July 16th BBC interview with Hussam Abdo.

The interview is remarkable, first of all, because Hussam Abdo is alive to give it. Three months ago, on 24 March 2004, Hussam, then 15 years old, was sent by Yassar Arafat's Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades to blow himself up at the Hawara Checkpoint in the West Bank.

The checkpoint is a busy place. If Hussam Abdo had completed his mission he might have killed not only Israeli soldiers but also many of the 200-300 Arab civilians who were gathered there. [1]

Fortunately Israeli soldiers spotted something bulky under the boy's jacket and shouted for everyone to run for cover. Then two things happened: Hussam Abdo decided not to push the detonator; and Israeli troops sent a robot to Hussam with a pair of scissors and then patiently talked him through removing a vest filled with explosives and nails, instead of simply shooting him.

For many people the Hussam Abdo footage was an eye-opener. Hussam's age (he was a *young* 15) and the manifest kindness of the Israeli troops simply did not fit the notion, fostered by the mass media and politicians, that Palestinian suicide terrorists are supposedly making a Political Statement because they have been Driven to Despair by supposedly Hateful Jewish people. The usual explanation is, "What else can they do?" It was as if that line was fashioned in one world, while Hussam and the Israeli troops dwelt in another.

The July 16th BBC interview provides further food for thought. As you read it you might want to ask yourself, 'Why would Hussam Abdo see blowing himself up as a reasonable way to get out of going to school?'

Let me provide a clue. After he was arrested at the Hawara Checkpoint, Hussam was interviewed by the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot. A few English language newspapers published the Associated Press summary of that interview:

[Excerpt from AP report starts here]

"Abdo said he wanted to reach paradise, which he was taught in school was the reward for suicide bombers.

"'A river of honey, a river of wine and 72 virgins. Since I have been studying Koran I know about the sweet life that waits there (in Paradise),'" the newspaper quoted the boy as saying.

AP report published by USA Today; 25 March 2004; "Israelis stop boy wearing bomb vest"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-03...deast-boy_x.htm

[Excerpt from AP report ends here]

So it was *in school* that Hussam learned that suicide terrorists are rewarded in a heaven of earthly delights! As you may or may not be aware, Palestinian schools are tightly controlled by Yassar Arafat's Palestinian Authority. That is the same Yassar Arafat whose forces also control the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade which, according to Hussam, recruited him to be a "martyr" at his school. (See BBC interview.)

Hussam expresses no animosity towards Israelis. He says the soldiers treated him well. He says he expects there to be peace between Arabs and Jews. He says he was relieved when, on March 24th, an Israeli doctor let him use a cell phone to call his mother and then, when his mother wept, took the phone and spoke to her. According to Hussam:

"He said don't worry about your son, he's fine, we'll take care of him."

The boy acknowledges this. He says he would warn any boy being sent on a suicide mission not to go:

"I would stop him because if he got caught he would go to prison and it's not a nice place and he shouldn't be away from his parents."

And yet at the same time he still says that to blow oneself up in a crowd of Jews is life's loftiest achievement:

"It's better than being a singer or a footballer. It's better than everything."

Emperor's Clothes has posted several pieces examining the political psychology of suicide terror, that is, how it is made possible by the mass indoctrination of Arabs, especially impressionable children, and how it is used to achieve the mass indoctrination of Westerners. These articles are listed at the end, under Further Reading. [2]

By the way, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades at first took "credit" for the heroic act of sending Hussam to martyr himself (and many others!) at Hawara Checkpoint. But then, when by some miracle Hussam didn't kill himself, and by some further miracle some of the media covered what had happened so that people could see Hussam was only a child, Al Aqsa denied they had sent him, claiming it was all a fabrication of Israeli propagandists. [3]

Al Aqsa's attempt to rewrite history in real time was awkward due to Al Aqsa having just taken "credit" for sending Hussam, and due to Hussam's mother, who had the rare courage to give interviews denouncing these "heroes" who recruited her son, and due to the fact that the whole thing was filmed by reporters. I've posted a page of pictures of Hussam Abdo at Hawara Checkpoint. You can access the pictures at http://emperor.vwh.net/abdo/abdopics.htm

Below is the BBC interview.

Jared Israel
Editor, Emperor's Clothes

***


'Nobody is going to live forever'

By James Reynolds
BBC Jerusalem correspondent


** It was an unforgettable image. A teenager standing alone at a checkpoint, explosives strapped to his chest, confused, trying to follow Israeli orders to get him to dismantle his bomb. **

 

[jennifer~]

Heavenly delights, heavenly delights...

And do you believe that Palestinians think suicide bombings have no earthly purpose? Right or wrong... you could at least view the argument from a well-informed perspective.

 

[Hanne]

Obituary

Yasser Arafat

Nov 11th 2004
From The Economist print edition
Yasser Arafat, leader of the Palestinians, died on November 11th, aged 75

I think we should all be able to agree that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is NOT all black and white.
Faults have been made on both sides, horrible violent acts on both sides have feed new violent acts.

Please keep the debate civil..and remember that we are all entitled to our opinions, because they are just that, our opinions, not universal truths

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by Vintage Mischa@Nov 13 2004, 02:19 PM
To the idiot above READ THIS IF YOU KNOW HOW
and there's plenty more where this came from, be educated before you speak in the future
BBC Interview with Hussam Abdo, Arab Suicide Bomber, Age 15, Who Didn't Push the Button...

**snips the copy and past job that was just googled two minutes ago**

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Hun, if you're going to build up an argument you most support it with a sufficient amount of evidence. One article that you got off google by typing in "child Martyr" isn't going to prove that all children of Arabs in Palestine are a threat to Israel. Maybe if they had a fair amount of military equipment they wouldn’t have to do it, now would they? You’re quite ignorant to think that as long as Palestine has kids they will be dangerous. That’s just a little something I learned in my first year of law school. When you grow up and go to school longer maybe you will be able to debate properly and avoid generalizations like "If three 15 year old Palestinian boys were used as Martyrs, then all Palestinian children are a threat to Israel"

Now, there have been several reports that refuted Arafats connection with the extremist martyrs. There are more reports that refute the copy and paste job that you just posted. Secondly this kid is not a child; he did it under his own free will. No one forced the bombs on him. YOU said LITTLE children. Trust me in the fact that a 15 year old in the Middle East is a lot more grown up than the average 15 year old in Western Countries. These boys start being treated like men at age 13. I've seen it for myself and anyone who has been anywhere in the Middle East has witnessed it. Their way of life forces them to grow up.

Now take a good look at all those lovely pictures in those articles. All the military equipment, guns, tanks, bomb detecting robots, armor and all belongs to the Jews. The Palestinians have nothing.

The reason these martyrs participate in suicide bombings is because their home land that they've been living in for thousands of years has been taken over by some Jews who decided, about 60 years ago, that the land belonged to them. They had no f*cking right to take over like that and COULDN"T have done so with out the douche bags Americans (as a said before)

Quite frankly, most people are Palestinian sympathizers. Even many Jews are sympathizers because they know what is going on is wrong.

I can only laugh at the ignorant people who believe everything they read in the newspapers. Especially UK newspapers

Gosh I hate wasting my time explaining simple things to a 18 year old