Advertising Agencies and copywriting

[kimair]

I work in San Francisco, CA, USA, North America with advertising agency creatives, account executives and producers for a living and I can say with absolute certainty that many of them do not have MBAs.

A lot of them have degrees in communications or fine arts and ended up on the business side out of financial necessity and convenience. Some don't even have degrees.

However: Kids, stay in school!

i have to agree with tangerine...
i work at an ad agency in san francisco as an art director, and i majored in communications/advertising...

you don't necessarily have to major in marketing, but alot of people do, or major in english, communications, etc...

if you're going for an account position, you should above all else be able to communicate effectively...

 

[MTRLBY]

Where do you go to University? Every University that I've seen had their advertising fall under the marketing department. I guess it could fall under a communications degree but then you'll have a B.Arts instead of B.Commerce.

Graphic designers are the people who bring advertiser's ideas to an image form. You'll be drawing it for them. In the end it will be their job to decide what they want the image to be.

What advertising agencies want is someone who studied business and marketing who is able to create advertisments for the company's target market. In order to know about the target market you have to study demographics, lifestyles, need recognitions, social influences, purchasing behaviour, gererational cohorts, cultures, sub-cultures....and a a bunch of other stuff you learn in marketing.

Without studying those aspects you can't create an advertisements.

at my school PR and advertising go under the communications school.
and marketing is in the business school(which is what im doing)

 

[CelineChic]

at my school PR and advertising go under the communications school.
and marketing is in the business school(which is what im doing)

Which school? Are you from Montreal?

 

[CelineChic]

I work in San Francisco, CA, USA, North America with advertising agency creatives, account executives and producers for a living and I can say with absolute certainty that many of them do not have MBAs.

Maybe it's just in Canada then. Since education is rather inexpensive compared to the US, MBAs are becoming more popular. Every non-entry level job description for account manager and acount executive that I've read said that they wanted a business graduate with preference being made to MBA student's.

As for communications departments having advertising that is the very first time I've ever heard of that. I thought communications studies was more like journalism, radio/television and that kind of stuff. I guess you learn something new every day.

 

[malin_08]

Good topic this helped me a lot..
I'm currently at UMD majoring in Marketing.
But there are so many opinions here about who will hire you and who won't
Yes, 'I think that the higher the education the likely you are to get a job..but I think its all about who you know and your work experience. IMO

I'm pretty young, and got some inspiration from this thread.. what can a 16-year-old do to get some contacts and work experience of this?


and, is it alot of backstabbing and such things to get to the top?
I mean is it as hard as I've heard (I wouldn't mind a little competition)

also, does anyone know a succesful company of this thread in sweden?

thank's in advance, if someone has any idea.

 

[Fashion40]

PR Agencies

hey guys,
do you guys know of any extremely good PR agencies that my business could work with..??

i want the TOP notch agencies.
i dont care about money. i just wanna know who's really good?

My fashion company is small and just started so i want to hire a good company.

know of any? thank you!

 

[pinnie]

interesting career !!

 

[pillarist]

A number of advertising firms who dabble (or have dabbled) in fashion advertising are as follows:
Baron & Baron
Dream Project
Badger & Partners
AR
Wieden + Kennedy
180 Degrees Amsterdam
Euro RSCG Worldwide
Lloyd (+co)
Iconix Brand Group
etc
etc

Other notable Advertising Agencies:
BBDO
Palmer Jarvis DDB
WCRS London
Saatchi & Saatchi
Grey
TBWA
Mother
Fallon
Cambpell, Doyle, Dye
...and at least another billion I haven't mentioned

In response to Celinechic, I myself also attend a Canadian University (Simon Fraser University) and am a joint major with Business Administration and Communications, I will aslo be heading to Cornell after my bachelors to get a degree in Visual Communications. Having taken a number of both communications and business courses I would come to the conclusion that Communications has more to do with Advertising (More specifically, copywriting, art/creative direction, brand manager, etc etc) while Marketing under business admin/commerce has moreso to do with market research and only slightly to do with advertising as such. That is not to say the it doesn't hurt to also minor and/or joint major with business, but I would actually believe that if you only have a business degree without any background in communications and/or the fine arts, landing prominant creative role in the advertising industry would indeed be slim.

Tangerine said it correctly, in fact, many creatives and execs in the advertising agency do not have business backgrounds (though some do of course), a majority of such professionals hold degrees in communications and/or psychology joint major and/or fine arts, etc etc. Many professionals with business backgrounds find themselves in more administrative roles and/or trend/market research.

In the end, I would definately recommend anyone interested in advertising to go for a communications degree with possibly business/commerce as a minor and/or backbone degree (joint major).

 

[Fox in the Snow]

Maybe it's just in Canada then. Since education is rather inexpensive compared to the US, MBAs are becoming more popular. Every non-entry level job description for account manager and acount executive that I've read said that they wanted a business graduate with preference being made to MBA student's.

As for communications departments having advertising that is the very first time I've ever heard of that. I thought communications studies was more like journalism, radio/television and that kind of stuff. I guess you learn something new every day.

Nope, i don't think so - most account execs i knew in Toronto, even for places like Grey or Taxi or O&M had BAs in stuff like Sociology, with maybe a couple of Marketing grads scattered here and there...very few had MAs - and many of the top managers got there through chutzpah and experience (not to mention ridiculously long hours!) but then again, they've been around for 20-30 years and the industry has changed a lot since then, I suppose.

However all the creatives I know (I also worked as a copywriter) had BAs and some background in writing either in journalism, screenwriting or taking specialised copywriting courses for graduates.

That said, the industry in Canada is and is a frustrating place - most highly talented individuals end up leaving just because of the brutally conservative client environment and small budgets.

 

[Fox in the Snow]

^oh and i left out the most important part - that a creative, be she a copywriter or an art director must have a great portfolio to even get a first interview or an internship...a really great book will always win out over education, no matter what.

 

[Bixby]

^oh and i left out the most important part - that a creative, be she a copywriter or an art director must have a great portfolio to even get a first interview or an internship...a really great book will always win out over education, no matter what.

Could you explain what should be in a portfolio? Are there ads that you've designed from scratch or can you take an ad you think is okay and redo it (laying it out side by side)? What's acceptable and what isn't?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Fox in the Snow]

Most creative directors (that i've met, anyway) want to see at least 6 mocked-up campaigns, in series of 3 ads on the same strategy. no beer ads, no make-up or fashion, as those are things that are really easy and or too 'student-y'. If you can come up with a brilliant idea for, say, table salt or something else really uninteresting than you'll get attention. Of course, this is harder!

As far as your idea of improving on current work that's out there, it's very risky because redoing the ad is assuming you know and understand the original brief as well as the people who produced the real thing. it could work, however, if your idea is bullet-proof, but unless this is the case, you're putting your credibility unncessarily on the line straight away. If it's just something you cannot bear to leave out, you can test it on a couple of CDs and see what they say, most most of all, you want to be positive with anything in your book that it attributes to an overall picture of your skill and talent as an individual - not biting other people's work. I wouldn't put 'real' work alongside your work, no.

Also, NO FILLER! if it's not your best and you know it, don't put it in and do keep working on it until you have at least 4 solid campaigns with the goal of six in total or even a bit more if you have something decent to add, before you start shopping it around. Creative Directors are incredibly busy people and they don't want to waste their time on a portfolio with 2 or 3 campaigns in it. That's not enough to prove anything. They also don't want to have to leaf through 30 crap campaigns digging for something of merit, either.

Also if something has a current and very successful campaign with high recognition, it's best to stay away from it, e.g. Dove.

In terms of the overall lay out, you want to start strong and finish even stronger, so your 2nd best campaign in the front, and the absolute best is the last thing the CD should see - that will be your final impression.

Good luck! It's a lot of hard work but when it's all put together it feels quite good! It's even better when you can start expanding it with 'real' work!

 

[Fabulyss]

^Thank you so so much! That was incredibly helpful.

My aunt worked for an ad agency (she quit a couple months ago to go freelance), but she was so revered her boss cried when she quit! Anyway, she is going to try to get me an internship with an agency and I'm wondering what should I expect to do interning? I get sooo nervous during interviews.

Also a question about the portfolio, what materials should I use to create one? Does it have to be fancy and photoshopped? And can these ads be prints AND commercials?

thanks!

 

[Fox in the Snow]

^what you do while you're interning depends totally on what kind of agency it is. When I interned, I was writing radio on my first day. I knew some people who got through 3 months without doing much more than making coffee and writing emails. It all depends. Most of the time, you'll some work that the established creative teams don't want to do - likely things like banner ads or POP if it's a multimedia agency. You may also get little 'assignments' from the CD to test you out, that may or may not be actually used.

The portfolio can be many different types - i've seen all kinds used. A standard small - sized or art-director sized can be used, it should all be photoshopped, and most of it should be print, unless you are confident enough in your screenwriting abilities to put a script in there, but you should concentrate on print first and foremost - everyone wants to do television, so it's pretty presumptuous to put it in there without any experience.

 

[Fashion40]

Thanks Pillarist~

I had another question though,

are these companies in the UK? or in the US?

 

[ShuggaStiletto]

Ohh this is one of the areas I'm thinking of going into. but i don't really know (only 16 lol)..buut Harrison & Shriftman does a lot with fashion/luxury brands. They're more of a marketing agency though, one of the Bush twins interned there once I believe. There are a ton of boutique/luxury type marketing/advertising/PR agencies in NY that deal with fashion designers. You could look on search engines or business type websites for their specific names!! Many of the agencies have offices in major US cities, and some worldwide as well.

 

[sullen_femme]

I'm having a problem with knowing what I want to do AFTER I get my BA. I a communications major and am totally overwhelmed with the possibilities. I also have a really hard time making up my mind. Anyone have any good ideas somewhat related to fashion and advertising or PR?

 

[pillarist]

hi fashion40, alot of the agencies are based worldwide, though many of the smaller agencies are based mostly in europe (france, italy, london, etc). though my favorite, WCRS, is based in London. I'm a big fan of what they've done for BMW and BUPA.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I'm going for school in Advertising, and i'm soooo nervous about the competition and everything. I really didn't want to deticate my life in the fashion industry but I did want to be in somewhat ways part of it, and I love advertising and I thought it was a great connection.

This thread helps a lot.

Thanks guys,

 

[CoutureFactory]

Does anyone have suggestions for amazing Advertising schools Internationaly?