For a branch of fashion that matters to very few people, haute couture generates serious debate. In early July, Dior will celebrate its 60th anniversary with a show at Versailles. Valentino will have a 45th blow-out in Rome. There’s a sense, however, that couture is again in some kind of transit phase. The Valentino company has a new owner and there’s a question of what will happen to couture when Valentino retires. This past Thursday, in Paris, I sat down with Alber Elbaz to ask what couture means to a younger generation of design innovators. What would induce a designer like Elbaz, or Marc Jacobs, or Nicolas Ghesquiere, to want to be part of an old-school couture house? Are they—and fashion—missing something?
Elbaz: You know, almost every collection I do has 200 different references. I don’t have two of the same coat, two of the same dress. I have it in one color, in one fabric. I’ve tried to adapt the culture of couture, and the know-how and the heritage, but I try to update it.
A couple of things have changed in women’s lives. Twenty or 30 years ago, they had different bodies. They weren’t so into sports and exercise. Bodies were very difficult to fit then. And I don’t think women in the past were as emotionally strong as they are today. It was very important for them to look beautiful. Now they want to be smart, active. So fashion is not enough anymore. It’s not just about what you wear. I mean, I don’t know how many women can afford to take the time to come to Paris for three fittings.
I think it’s important to still support couture because we’re supporting a technique, a dream. The problem with couture is not designers; it’s what happens when the couturier will no longer be there. When you go to the big ateliers, almost everybody is in his or her 60s. I spoke about it with Karl Lagerfeld and he said at Chanel there are also a lot of young people. But in many houses the age of the workers is quite high. What will happen in five years?
Q: But do you think the knowledge will be lost if young designers like yourself don’t pursue couture?
A: If I don’t have an atelier, I am a paralyzed man. But when I started working at Saint Laurent, I inherited two ateliers from the haute couture. I gave them a jacket and I got it back three weeks later. It took them three weeks to make a jacket. I had a flou atelier with 20 people and one sewing machine. ONE. Everything was done by hand. Try and get a skirt made quickly. It’s a big question you are asking. Do you keep the past by going forward or do you have to maintain it in order to exist?
Almost everybody I work with at Lanvin is from the haute couture. So I work with all those seamstresses and pattern-cutters that did couture. They’re no longer doing the made-to-measure, but they’re still doing clothes the same way.
I work on fittings mostly. You know, I sketch less and less in my work. I sketch for the show sometimes, but then it becomes more conceptual. But when I don’t sketch it becomes more pragmatic.
Q: But do you think Chanel and Valentino need to have haute couture once Lagerfeld and Valentino decide to retire?
A: I’m going to contradict myself big time. I had lunch recently with the president of DeBeers and I asked him who his competitors were. He said, “Art.” When you have a million dollars in your bank account ready to be burned, you have a choice today to buy a diamond ring or a painting.
You know, when Mr. Beene finished designing, he finished. When Mr. Saint Laurent finished, he finished. There was no continuation. If Valentino and Chanel want to continue, let it be. Who are we to say if it’s right? If they love doing couture, if dressing 20 celebrities for the red carpet and some rich ladies around the world makes them happy, go for it. Go for whatever you believe in as a long as you don’t fake it. I don’t know how to do sportswear pieces with, like, seven pockets. [Elbaz laughs.] If you sent me to work for Banana Republic, they’d fire me in a week.
But back to DeBeers. I see also another thing happening in the world. I read these stories in financial newspapers that say a business was sold for $3 billion. Wow! Or someone’s salary is $75 million. Doing what? Reading some lines? [He laughed.] I’m dying here. We’re working our ***es off, and we don’t even get close to one eighth of an eighth. So, I’m saying that maybe now with all this big money there’s going to be a new couture client.
Q: Yes, but people said that in the 90s with the high-tech explosion. But I don’t see folks from Microsoft or Google at couture. They’re into art, maybe.
A: Yes, but when they have the art in the house, next they want the dress. To go next to the swimming pool.
Q: Nan Kempner may have been ga-ga for couture, but she also appreciated the craft and fit. Can a generation raised in casual clothes suddenly acquire this appreciation?
A: I believe they will. They’re not dumb people. They’ve made a lot of money. These are also the kind of people who mad their money themselves. And they’re new women with a new lifestyle. They’re working women. They’re something more pragmatic about their needs.
Q: One snag for couture’s future is time. People want beautiful things but they want them faster. And designers have to turn out other stuff today, like handbags and shoes?
A: How do we define haute couture? Is it one-of-a-kind? Is it all about made-to-measure? For me, it’s about being innovative and going forward. Cutting in a different way. Taking fabrics and developing them. I see all these Macintoshes being glued today, and I think, Let’s see what happens there. Can we move that idea forward? That’s what couture is for me. It’s the ability to innovate.
I always say—I’ve said it a hundred times—fashion and food are alike. Take French cuisine and just cut out a little bit of the butter and the fat. The recipe is divine. Take haute couture: It’s beautiful. I could not live without my atelier. Well, do it in a different way.
Q: Don’t you think Chanel does it in a modern way?
A: I’m sure Chanel does. Karl is a very, very good designer. He’s very intelligent. And Valentino, too. I was thinking of going to the Valentino show in Rome, just to give respect to a man who’s been doing this for 45 years. How many dresses he’s designed! How many women he’s made look beautiful!
Q: If you own a jacket made by hand in Paris, you know there’s a difference in the way it fits and feels on your body. A lot of designers like to use handwork because it makes their garments more special and harder to copy. But a garment that’s entirely constructed by hand feels different, because of the way the fabric is handled. Doesn’t this matter in the long run to fashion?
A: There is something special about clothes that are made by women and not by machine. They do something for the clothes. There is a huge difference when I see a suit, or pants and a shirt being done by the atelier, and the same pieces done by a factory. It’s an emotion. Zara can’t copy that. Maybe that’s why we do almost all the clothes at Lanvin on the body.
Q: The issue of time is interesting, though.
A: The older generation of couturiers had more time to create. They created less, they were protected—nobody could see their work. They were working in a cocoon. They were not celebrities. They were technicians, in a way. Today, when all the designers see each other, it’s what we talk about—the lack of time. We’re like sisters in a big family!
But there are good things and bad things about not having enough time. Not having time can help you create a kind of fearless fashion. You are forced to touch only what’s essential, what’s important, and what isn’t false.
Q: For sure, Paris couture will be another story in 10 years.
A: But the knowledge won’t be lost. You know, I was trained by Mr. Beene, then I was re-educated at Saint Laurent. I learned from two masters. I learned from their techniques. Have you ever seen those corsets of Saint Laurent? There was a corset and then on top, a chiffon dress. Those dresses were like air. And you saw the nipples of the girls and you thought, How could that happen under a corset? Well, there is a certain corset that is cut around the bust, so that it’s out. It gives the bust a fragility, so it doesn’t look like a Toyota. [He laughed.] You see how Mr. Beene would take one dart and bring it to another place. Whatever I’ve learned from them, I have given to people who have worked with me. They take everything that I taught them and they continue. So there you go. Couture cannot die.
I told him that he was my favorite designer and he was so excited
). I could listen to him talk all day long ...
and this thread is wonderful.
