Carol Christian Poell - Designer

[runner]

softgrey I see, so I can select 4 ( or 6 preferably, if you think it's okay ) more images to post in #3 of the carol christian poell 2010 thread,
then could you please insert them there ?
and if there is anyone who needs to see the rest of the set in original quality, let's post it in new posts.
what do you think ?





fenrost, I think the convex mirror is just an excuse for the alchemist painter's desire to distort rationality because in reality it doesn't reflect things that way. it's madness masked with canons. there is a discord between the real world and himself ( or his own internal world ).
in everything carol does I see a certain chirography of those manneristic schizoids.

image from S/S 08 "off scene"
courtesy giacomozanardelli.com

 

[softgrey]

hi runner-
yes, i think that we could add 6 more images without any bad effect...
maybe the best thing is for you to post them here and I can then insert them into post #3 ...
(i may have to get the help of another mod, but i will figure it out!...)

sounds like it would be good to post any additional images in new posts...
i agree...

 

[ErnstLudwig]

fenrost, I think the convex mirror is just an excuse for the alchemist painter's desire to distort rationality because in reality it doesn't reflect things that way. it's madness masked with canons. there is a discord between the real world and himself ( or his own internal world ).

I'm no expert on Parmigianino, but I think it was more like a "publicity stunt" painting to attract attention for further contracts.

image from S/S 08 "off scene"
courtesy giacomozanardelli.com

That's a good one! Like the exaggeration of the Giacometti portrait by Cartier-Bresson. The artist has vanished and even his art is too vivid to be clearly visible.

 

[runner]

softgrey, how about this idea that I'll pass the images to you ?

I'm no expert on Parmigianino, but I think it was more like a "publicity stunt" painting to attract attention for further contracts.

yes it's acrobatic, virtuosic and can be seen as affectation, conceit, stunt, or whatever which is just one vital element to the style for sure. but I'm referring to a hint of something in him that was to be developed later and be out of control at last.

usually it's a dual structure. it has the other side at least. sometimes it's even prismatic or labyrinthine or eye-spiraling to imply our eyes (clarity/rationality) can delude us.
and I guess this "stunt" too is played in a duet setting.
a duet between calculation and madness.
it's subtle, but it looks like madness is already deeper darker and colder than calculation here.




the video from S/S 08
thanks to softgrey
http://www.giacomozanardelli.com/showcase/off-scene/index.htm

also we have a thread for the collection if anyone is interested
mak

 

[fenrost]

distort rationality because in reality it doesn't reflect things that way.

interesting!

relatable, john ashbery has wrote a poem re: the convex mirror, a synonym idea of projection disharmony than truth;distortion dream/reality -

strophe 2-3

"The forms retain a strong measure of ideal beauty
As they forage in secret on our idea of distortion.
Why be unhappy with this arrangement, since
Dreams prolong us as they are absorbed?
Something like living occurs, a movement
Out of the dream into its codification."​

 

[fenrost]

the metal splints at the sole are semi "buried" in the leather, as oppose in 09

thought to follow up this, and his continuous take on the metal shanks :


2010:

src: lazzari



2009:

src: ateliernyc



FW07-08:

The above photo shows the bulge of a slightly off-center shank spring in the lower part of the outsole. I think that this is something to contemplate further when you consider the traditional purpose of the shank spring, in its rigidity to the form of the shoe. The shank spring attempts to coax the life of the shoe into a straight one.. the manifold object of a shoe's outer form and function. Far from being an experiment in non-functionality, it must signal something deeper in Poell's assessment of inner components and his willingness to manipulate the object as a whole through its parts.

We see the shank spring appear on the outside of the shoe later, something again to give contemplation to. The shank spring outside of the shoe also brings with it a myriad of other points when articulating the growths of Poell's internal/external concepts.​

src: rsa-sb/?



..

 

[fenrost]

humour or desire in the shape of a childlike heart included

this is awesome comparison btw.. i just had a read on max ernst's work.

 

[ErnstLudwig]

usually it's a dual structure. it has the other side at least. sometimes it's even prismatic or labyrinthine or eye-spiraling to imply our eyes (clarity/rationality) can delude us.
and I guess this "stunt" too is played in a duet setting.
a duet between calculation and madness.
it's subtle, but it looks like madness is already deeper darker and colder than calculation here.

Way to subtle for me, he merely painted a realistic image of the reflection of a convex mirror (and in other paintings adapted the promotions of body parts). In f. e. El Greco’s paintings I do see real expressionistic imagination and madness.

 

[fenrost]

to my limited knowledge, the impression doesn't seem very merely (as describes by poet john ashebery's, and bibliographer vasari),

mm... i think the specifics convex mirror is paralleling it's form and essence, is to the rubber-dipped disc. not sure as verbatim, parmigianino and his work, to carol's and his (whole)body of work.

 

[ErnstLudwig]

It’s not the point that the impression isn’t spectacular; the artists didn’t even have to use his imagination to paint it – so a plain realistic image.

Btw I see CCP more as an industrial designer in the sprit of the early Bauhaus, when they only had some ideas about mass production and enforcing new techniques in their minds, but because of the problems they run into while transferring their individual aesthetics to the product, they ended up devoting themselves to the Handwerk (instead of Technik).

And the rubber-dipped disc I see as an artefact of lost culture (redeemed by CDs, DVDs, and even Blu-rays), dripped by physical force into the man-made raw material where the disc originated from. It’s also important that disc is still intact and only an additional layer of plastic is added, representing a gradual change instead of the complete destruction of old thoughts.
Of cause you can also take into account that he actually used plastic, the oil derived natural resource, turned into, via organic chemistry, one of the most important products of the modern age; so it represents the blessing and wealth (from bottles to shoes) as well as the doom of our civilization (limited abundance and of cause a non-degradable pollutant of nature).

 

[runner]

Way to subtle for me, he merely painted a realistic image of the reflection of a convex mirror (and in other paintings adapted the promotions of body parts). In f. e. El Greco’s paintings I do see real expressionistic imagination and madness.

I wouldn't mention greco in this particular context. greco came right after parmigianino had gone.
at the early stage parmigianino was struggling under much more restriction. and it should have been more personal.
in the latter half of the 16th century where it was sort of matured as an art theory, greco was able to do it more freely. he should have been internally freer.
but I think it's still the same imaginary (or realistic, for them) world of idea that the amorphous hand invites the viewer to. beyond nature.

 

[runner]

relatable, john ashbery has wrote a poem re: the convex mirror, a synonym idea of projection disharmony than truth;distortion dream/reality -

strophe 2-3

"The forms retain a strong measure of ideal beauty​

As they forage in secret on our idea of distortion.​

Why be unhappy with this arrangement, since​

Dreams prolong us as they are absorbed?​

Something like living occurs, a movement​

Out of the dream into its codification."​

that makes me start to think someone in white in #101 may be carol's own doppelganger named sosein he sees when he opens the toilet door.
or like superman changes in a phone booth there is his soul hero who changes in a stall, chuteman.



okay more later

 

[fenrost]

the artists didn’t even have to use his imagination to paint it – so a plain realistic image.

i think your discounting what's beneath the surface.

great write up on the rubber dipped disc, B)

when one become too closely attached to his work, it sort of difficult to separate the creator's presence.

not sure if being mentioned? i recall sergio said all rubber dips are done by carol himself

 

[runner]

not sure as verbatim, parmigianino and his work, to carol's and his (whole)body of work.

I meant chirography in more of a psychological sense.
I see a certain crankiness and a kind of repression.
it's not a glamourized model on the right side of the world that is presented in those official images.
instead, it's often a problematic (albeit charming) being in the para-perspective, which overlaps parmigianino himself in the mirror, the man who extinguished his feelings and emotions in the dizzying space.


and thank you very much for the pics of the soles that illustrate the transformation.
it was from inside to outside (invisible to visible), and now it's in the process of going from outside back to inside again. "a periodic alternation" of phases.
it is carol's practice to let such details speak of the content of the collection for him. and it tells quietly that the direction/current is now reversed.
but there is a disparity between the original purpose of the shank and its role in his design.
it's like a disunity of form and content in parmigianino's work.
there seems to be some ambivalence both have in common. and it might be because they found such state more realistic.



mak

 

[fenrost]

"a periodic alternation" of phases.
it is carol's practice to let such details speak of the content of the collection for him.

B) thanks runner

i would like to document the variance transformation of his belting system, as well as the gloving, i have bits here and there but nothing comprehensive enough to show/say.

and i agree, these alternation speak of the collection, like in the 2009, the buttoned belt loops - selvedge on the inside, un-button to show the selvedge on the outside.

 

[fenrost]

excerpt 2 page

src: mak | fashion and imagination : about clothes and art. 09

 

[Advancedart]

Runner, maybe you have more insight on this, but do you happen to know a few of the fabric mills Carol Christian Poell is getting his fabrics from, especially Japan? I talked to Carol once about this, and he gave me a very good advice. didn't want to bother him with more requests tho.
I am not interested in using Fabrics Carol has already used, but the mills might have other good qualities aswell.

 

[runner]

the info is in "karma" box on your user control panel.
if you need some more, try asking mr simone. I think he will help you if he understands what makes you ask him.
or there is a textile trade show/event the japanese organization called jetro hosts. though I don't know you, you might like to visit it.

 

[fenrost]

hi runner, apologise to derail and apologise again because it's ccp related - but it is interesting that you mentioned of rei's influence over the niche market at the junya thread, thanks for that.

do you happen to know much of this collaboration between ccp, cdg, and 10 corso como? (or just the sake of exclusives)

 

[Advancedart]

first of all runner thank you for your kind help. Asking Simone is quite a good idea (he is also nice enough to forward your inquiries directly to Carol btw), or I will just wait for another meeting with Carol Christian.
I already established contact with the company and it seems not so easy, as they usually don't exhibit in Europe or have agencies here. Let's see how this turns out.


Regarding your request fenrost. This is no collaboration. That's just the tag of a store in Japan.
It is called:
10 Corso Como Comme des Garçons