Christian Dior Haute Couture F/W 2022.23 Paris

[Deleted member 7575]

^^^ She’s as unfairly and quickly dismissed as Olivier Rousteing around here LOL

There’s a lot to covet for a certain woman of privilege, wealth and taste with this offering. And if I were a woman— and of that status, I’d be making a long list: The white lace dresses; black lace dresses; pleated dresses with the plunging neckline; and embroidered car coats— all supreme, and every well-seasoned couture clientele can easily make it all her own beyond the gentile, preraphaelite styling presented here. Thank goodness the insufferable, shallow feminist-101 statements on tees are a distant memory, along with the distracting sets. Her keeping it simple, clean and all about the designs is finally showcasing her strength. And if one’s not into a more conservative, pragmatic and still feminine sensibility, then this won’t be your thing, but in no way is it remotely bad/boring/bland. If I were a clientele, I’d wear the aforementioned personal favs with knee-high stiletto boots just to vamp it all up. (For that juvenile yasssss queen cheapness, look no further than her former design partner at VLTN…)

*gives applause*

 

[Salvatore]

I finally took some time to really look at this collection and I am definitely one of the ones that is most opposed to her offerings during her tenure at Dior. However, looking at this collection further and I think it’s nice. I liked some of the details put into this and I agree that I can see a certain set of women really resonating with it. I still think she is very limited on the silhouettes that she’s able to do and I still wish she would leave, but this collection was acceptable and focused.

 

[Frederic01]

Her collections get further and further away from the heritage of Dior with each passing collection. It's confusing and depressing at the same time. And again with the bohemian vibe! Her enduring obsession with gypsy/bohemian style is exhausting.

I must be one of the few on here but I don't find this collection to be appealing or interesting in any way whatsoever especially since she already did something very similar for the Valentino HC Spring Summer 2015 collection and with much more success.

What's more, most of this looks like something Isabel Marant would do if she tried her hand at Haute Couture. A lot of it also looks incredibly close to the aesthetic of the Australian brand Zimmermann, with its whole frou-frou, lace, Victorian, etc, etc, elements.

 

[gallianostan]

literally nothing about this is christian dior. so frumpy and ugly. sleep-inducing nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Ya'll complaining that this ain't Christian Dior as if Raf Simons's post-modern couture-ture and Galliano's acid trip drag queens were sooooo Dior.

I'll admit, it doesn't strike me as specially Dior... if one is only thinking only the 1950s.

Oh but wait, there's the Marc Bohan years throughout the 1960s, '70s, and '80s.

Sorry that you're not familiar.

 

[gallianostan]

Ya'll complaining that this ain't Christian Dior as if Raf Simons's post-modern couture-ture and Galliano's acid trip drag queens were sooooo Dior.

tell me you know nothing about the dior codes without telling me you know nothing about the dior codes

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Honestly I kind of agree with Mutterlein in the sense of complaining like... she is extremely easy to hate bc she generally sucks and is boring af, but it is what it is. Christian Dior been dead for almost 70 years. This is just a corporate brand, that has hired MGC to make it her vision to sell stuff. And it is selling! Many customers like it. And it is totally okay for people not to like it (i.e. me cuz I am not a customer and I do not think she is entertaining or inspiring at all) but as a "brand" I can still see the "Christian Dior" parameters that she's working within at the same time of doing her own thing. There is some respect. Much like Galliano at Margiela (Galliano sweetie I'm so sorry I'm comparing you to Mary grace), I see the line he is walking to stay on Margiela's philosophies, but it's not Martin Margiela anymore. At all. They're all just brands. The original designers are dunzo

 

[Frederic01]

Ya'll complaining that this ain't Christian Dior as if Raf Simons's post-modern couture-ture and Galliano's acid trip drag queens were sooooo Dior.

I'll admit, it doesn't strike me as specially Dior... if one is only thinking only the 1950s.

Oh but wait, there's the Marc Bohan years throughout the 1960s, '70s, and '80s.

Sorry that you're not familiar.

I don't see the references to Marc Bohan's oeuvre at Dior either. For example in the 1970's, his work during that period was a very polished and almost subdued take on the the aesthetics of the 70's. Just look at his one of his muses during this period, Grace Kelly, and what she wore that was emblematic of these years of his work.

This collection is closer to the bohemian aesthetic that Saint Laurent was doing during those years to be honest. Or even Biba. But Dior? I don't think so.

As for the clientele, you only have to go on IG and see to buys Haute Couture to see that they aren't buying these bohemian and the gypsy styles. They are choosing traditional and iconic 1950's Dior silhouettes. That aesthetic is what resonates so strongly and what most people recognise as the language of Dior. It's also what most people buy at Dior.




Instagram of: ArisaJoyLife, MayMay_Savan, Cathie_Reid

 

[Salvatore]

Ya'll complaining that this ain't Christian Dior as if Raf Simons's post-modern couture-ture and Galliano's acid trip drag queens were sooooo Dior.

I'll admit, it doesn't strike me as specially Dior... if one is only thinking only the 1950s.

Oh but wait, there's the Marc Bohan years throughout the 1960s, '70s, and '80s.

Sorry that you're not familiar.

I think what makes MGC not Dior is her spirit and what she injects into the house and her collection. Silhouettes and aesthetics aside, I personally associate Dior with exuberance, femininity, excessiveness, opulence, and joy. I’d even say fun ? It’s not a house built on grand displays of intellectualism, think-pieces, and whatever. Raf and MGC do not strike me as fun to be around, but rather exhausting in the case of Raf and boring in the case of MGC just by looking at their clothes and interviews. John’s earliest shows and some in the early 2000’s worked for Dior because he incorporated that exuberance, opulence, and excessiveness in the shows and definitely femininity and joy in the first shows. You can clearly see when John started to lose himself (right after Spring 2007 Haute Couture) because the energy was lost. The subsequent designers, I’m sure, were instructed by management to tone it down and we get Raf and MGC.

So whoever will replace MGC, I hope they are allowed to inject that back in their own way, not in the « drag » show way of John because they think they have to.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

tell me you know nothing about the dior codes without telling me you know nothing about the dior codes

Do tell me, what ARE Dior's codes?

 

[Deleted member 7575]

I don't see the references to Marc Bohan's oeuvre at Dior either. For example in the 1970's, his work during that period was a very polished and almost subdued take on the the aesthetics of the 70's. Just look at his one of his muses during this period, Grace Kelly, and what she wore that was emblematic of these years of his work.

This collection is closer to the bohemian aesthetic that Saint Laurent was doing during those years to be honest. Or even Biba. But Dior? I don't think so.

As for the clientele, you only have to go on IG and see to buys Haute Couture to see that they aren't buying these bohemian and the gypsy styles. They are choosing traditional and iconic 1950's Dior silhouettes. That aesthetic is what resonates so strongly and what most people recognise as the language of Dior. It's also what most people buy at Dior.




Instagram of: ArisaJoyLife, MayMay_Savan, Cathie_Reid

I made sure to check and look through Marc Bohan's work throughout the 1960s and
70's before I made the statement. So I must respectfully disagree with your summation of Bohan's Dior. Chiuri, who has already gone on record saying she has referenced the Bohan years, has pulled so much from him including her softened, wider-waisted version of the bar jacket and a very worked, feminine flourish in detail and decoration. I'm not saying Bohan did a folklore collection as such (although your belief that only YSL dabbled in the theme is erroneous as it was a major fashion sensibility advanced by a whole litany of designers throughout London, New York, Paris and Milan from the late 60's onward), but they surely share a sensibility and silhouette. A couple of looks in this collection are almost line-for-line references to some of Bohan's designs.

I would recommend a more thorough look.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

The original designers are dunzo

This.

 

[Frederic01]

I'm not saying Bohan did a folklore collection as such (although your belief that only YSL dabbled in the theme is erroneous as it was a major fashion sensibility advanced by a whole litany of designers throughout London, New York, Paris and Milan from the late 60's onward), but they surely share a sensibility and silhouette.

That's not what I said at all? I wrote that this particular collection is closer to the bohemian aesthetic of what Saint Laurent was doing in the 1970's rather than what Marc Bohan was doing at the time. Literally everything about this silhouette; the shape of those longer A-Line skirts paired with the embroidered cropped jacket, vague ethnic references in the embroidery, that knee-high flat boot - it's all Yves Saint Laurent. There are well-documented photographs of Francoise Hardy, Catherine Deneuve, and Loulou de Falaise wearing looks that are identical to what we see here (albeit not in beige and nude tones that Maria Grazia is so obsessed with).

With all due respect, I think it is you who should have a more thorough look at the archives of Dior and the archives of Yves Saint Laurent. Marc Bohan was a very derivative designer who worked within a very conservative framework, even during those culturally radical years. His silhouettes were almost always influenced by the work of his peers. If you compare his Dior collections side by side with those of Saint Laurent, you will see the affinities. It has even been written about by many fashion historians.

If you have read any of the books on Marc Bohan, or if you have been lucky enough to have visited the Dior Archives and taken a guided tour with Soizic Pfaff, you would know that Bohan's work was very subdued and classic, and rarely without any overt bohemian or extremely trendy references. Even when he was referencing Byzantine aesthetics (HC S/S 1968) or Mexico (HC S/S 1966) or Africa (HC S/S 1967) - it was extremely refined and polished, with no sense of bohemian allure. His embroidered are the opposite of what Maria Grazia is doing. If anything they are closer to the graphicism of the embroideries that Raf Simons did at Dior.

 

[Phuel]

^^^ Fair points, Frederico. With taste and personal preference aside, there’s still a lot to be coveted by the women Maria Grazia is designing for. And Insta is not a remotely good gauge of who the dedicated Dior Couture clientele is and what she’s buying. This is not Jacquemus we’re talking about LOL

Wouldn’t be outrageous to say that the majority of faithful Couture clientele would never bother to flex in such a juvenile manner as to post on SM what they’re buying and wearing. It’s just this unfortunate generation of Kardashian-mindset that’s programmed wannabes to post/show-and-tell virtual strangers what they’re buying/wearing/eating/hooking up with. Just gross to all these habits and thank goodness I grew up in an era where such habits are reserved for what we delegate to as eurotrash/ghetto.

There’s a lot I’m not fond of with Maria Grazia. But there's also quite a bit that I’m finding to be fond of with this collection-- for a certain, refined, understated woman who’s not looking for red carpet costumes, designer signatures, or house codes etc etc. She’s dressing for herself and her lifestyle, with investment pieces that’s far far far out of reach and influence of the cheap SM circus, of which that’s sadly infested the fashion industr

 

[Deleted member 7575]

That's not what I said at all? I wrote that this particular collection is closer to the bohemian aesthetic of what Saint Laurent was doing in the 1970's rather than what Marc Bohan was doing at the time. Literally everything about this silhouette; the shape of those longer A-Line skirts paired with the embroidered cropped jacket, vague ethnic references in the embroidery, that knee-high flat boot - it's all Yves Saint Laurent. There are well-documented photographs of Francoise Hardy, Catherine Deneuve, and Loulou de Falaise wearing looks that are identical to what we see here (albeit not in beige and nude tones that Maria Grazia is so obsessed with).

With all due respect, I think it is you who should have a more thorough look at the archives of Dior and the archives of Yves Saint Laurent. Marc Bohan was a very derivative designer who worked within a very conservative framework, even during those culturally radical years. His silhouettes were almost always influenced by the work of his peers. If you compare his Dior collections side by side with those of Saint Laurent, you will see the affinities. It has even been written about by many fashion historians.

If you have read any of the books on Marc Bohan, or if you have been lucky enough to have visited the Dior Archives and taken a guided tour with Soizic Pfaff, you would know that Bohan's work was very subdued and classic, and rarely without any overt bohemian or extremely trendy references. Even when he was referencing Byzantine aesthetics (HC S/S 1968) or Mexico (HC S/S 1966) or Africa (HC S/S 1967) - it was extremely refined and polished, with no sense of bohemian allure. His embroidered are the opposite of what Maria Grazia is doing. If anything they are closer to the graphicism of the embroideries that Raf Simons did at Dior.

I am making no claims about the greatness of Marc Bohan, merely pointing out that Maria Grazia has pulled a lot from his years there as a rebuttal to the claim that her work is not very Dior.

We can also disagree on our definitions of "extremely refined and polished" as that is exactly how I would characterize MGC's Dior.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Also, YSL did not invent the fitted bodice and A-line skirt silhouette or cropped jacket anymore than he invented designer ready-to-wear (his legend is supported by a lot of hype and propaganda). Surely he helped popularize it, but he was one of many. Just like he was one of many doing ethnic and folk-inspired textiles and embroidery. Almost every designer working from the late '60s through the late '70s worked with that silhouette and those influences---including Marc Bohan, who MGC has often referenced by her own admission. She's been pretty smitten with that whole era of fashion since her Valentino days.

I'm plenty familiar with the YSL's oeuvre and I've spent enough time working in historic costume collections--not taking tours through them---to know that history is a set of lies agreed upon. I'm not discounting YSL's immense influence but he's not fashion Jesus.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

"'It’s very close to my idea of fashion. I love his references of women,' Chiuri said of the former Dior artistic director Marc Bohan"

- Another Magazine

 

[jeanclaude]

I used to think of Bohan as a boring designer...but then Mary Grace appeared; and my perception of Bohan changed completely!

Poor Gianfranco Ferré...no one seems to remember his work at Dior!

 

[Lola701]

Also, YSL did not invent the fitted bodice and A-line skirt silhouette or cropped jacket anymore than he invented designer ready-to-wear (his legend is supported by a lot of hype and propaganda). Surely he helped popularize it, but he was one of many. Just like he was one of many doing ethnic and folk-inspired textiles and embroidery. Almost every designer working from the late '60s through the late '70s worked with that silhouette and those influences---including Marc Bohan, who MGC has often referenced by her own admission. She's been pretty smitten with that whole era of fashion since her Valentino days.

I'm plenty familiar with the YSL's oeuvre and I've spent enough time working in historic costume collections--not taking tours through them---to know that history is a set of lies agreed upon. I'm not discounting YSL's immense influence but he's not fashion Jesus.

YSL did great things but if we look at the work of his contemporaries he wasn’t as daring as it is often said. The legend was build and heavily fed by Pierre Bergé. The work of someone like Emmanuel Ungaro was very much more daring than Yves…
Yves was French fashion’s darling with the support of people like Edmonde C.R. and he also had a quite classic and bourgeois clientele…So it was easier to shock them in a way.

I used to think of Bohan as a boring designer...but then Mary Grace appeared; and my perception of Bohan changed completely!

Poor Gianfranco Ferré...no one seems to remember his work at Dior!

It may sounds as sacrilegious but for me, Marc Bohan is a bit like Hubert de Givenchy. They aren’t innovators. But there were so many designers like him at the same time. He did great things in the 70’s and it was clever in the 80’s to associate Dior with Stephanie of Monaco. Bernard Arnault did him dirty tho.

Ferre was good for Dior but beyond great on his own. For me he was maybe a bit anachronic…Like Lacroix. He took over at a time when Italian fashion ruled the world but the spirit of Italian fashion was more fresh and daring than the chemise en pointe, ball gowns he did for Dior. Maybe he became too soon part of the old generation with Yves and others Couturiers when he should have been with Karl, Montana, Mugler and Versace. His Dior was grandiose but not daring…

 

[Deleted member 7575]

YSL did great things but if we look at the work of his contemporaries he wasn’t as daring as it is often said. The legend was build and heavily fed by Pierre Bergé. The work of someone like Emmanuel Ungaro was very much more daring than Yves…
Yves was French fashion’s darling with the support of people like Edmonde C.R. and he also had a quite classic and bourgeois clientele…So it was easier to shock them in a way.




It may sounds as sacrilegious but for me, Marc Bohan is a bit like Hubert de Givenchy. They aren’t innovators. But there were so many designers like him at the same time. He did great things in the 70’s and it was clever in the 80’s to associate Dior with Stephanie of Monaco. Bernard Arnault did him dirty tho.

Ferre was good for Dior but beyond great on his own. For me he was maybe a bit anachronic…Like Lacroix. He took over at a time when Italian fashion ruled the world but the spirit of Italian fashion was more fresh and daring than the chemise en pointe, ball gowns he did for Dior. Maybe he became too soon part of the old generation with Yves and others Couturiers when he should have been with Karl, Montana, Mugler and Versace. His Dior was grandiose but not daring…

Love Ferre, NEVER liked his Dior although that may change over time and someday I might see it in a new light. My love for Ferre takes a break throughout the '90s in general though.