Christian Dior Haute Couture F/W 2022.23 Paris

[Caffeine]

That's not what I'm talking about though.

It's not the corset in and of itself, it's the corset as the default, obligatory undergarment to be worn by all women all day, every day. Today, a woman can wear a corset as she pleases (an overwhelming majority do not). Go back 120 years and she had no choice, not without facing harsh ridicule and being ostracized... because it was the prevailing fashion of time.

Sure. but a writer has to over think things and write about them right? I just don't know why it's a big deal. Chanel had its niche and Dior has its niche. Many women own both just like today. They all have their places in history. it's like debating why Chanel has so many logo pieces nowadays...is it the maker or the clientele? it's a circle.
Still, it doesn't change the fact that it was a great look!

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Sure. but a writer has to over think things and write about them right? I just don't know why it's a big deal. Chanel had its niche and Dior has its niche. Many women own both just like today. They all have their places in history. it's like debating why Chanel has so many logo pieces nowadays...is it the maker or the clientele? it's a circle.
Still, it doesn't change the fact that it was a great look!

No denying it looks fantastic. However, to look back at Dior's original bar jacket today as the ideal is problematic and imo is misguided to use as criteria on which to judge MGC's updated version.

That is where this whole tedious conversation began.

 

[Caffeine]

No denying it looks fantastic. However, to look back at Dior's original bar jacket today as the ideal is problematic and imo is misguided to use as criteria on which to judge MGC's updated version.

That is where this whole tedious conversation began.

If it was so awful the rich ladies wouldn't have bought them. The market functioned back then too

 

[Deleted member 7575]

If it was so awful the rich ladies wouldn't have bought them. The market functioned back then too

Lots of things were bought, sold and practiced in the past but are no longer today. Just because they were once widely accepted or popular does not mean they are universally good or cannot be subject to scrutiny.

 

[MulletProof]

I don't wear them, but I spend lots of time working on my abs. There is no short cut: either you workout or you use more structure...

It’s both though, not one or the other. No amount of abs a day will redefine your waist the way a corset does. Reason why the chubby ladies back then had a killer hourglass figure haha. Honestly, I’m okay with my waist lol (reason why I’ve never worn one and also, because I’m not interested in having my boobs up to my chin, thanks), but if I had the waist-hip radio of Gisele, I’d be in a corset day in day out haha

Also I don’t know why I’m in this thread with my shallow input, just.. abs can only do so much in front of genetics.

 

[jeanclaude]

<...Meanwhile, inside Maria-Grazia´s highly creative mind, a revolutionary idea is being gestated...>

WE SHOULD ALL BE CORSETED
(gstatic.com)

 

[Frederic01]

It's not the corset in and of itself, it's the corset as the default, obligatory undergarment to be worn by all women all day, every day. Today, a woman can wear a corset as she pleases (an overwhelming majority do not). Go back 120 years and she had no choice, not without facing harsh ridicule and being ostracized... because it was the prevailing fashion of time.

Exactly. Because it was the fashion of the time, not because it was somehow determined by men and/or the "patriarchy", and not because of some invisible "misogynistic" forces.

Just FYI. The corset was popularised by prominent women throughout history. There were also a lot of men that wore corsets. It has nothing to do with misogyny. A small waist, and garments that accentuate that silhouette, have always been considered "fashionable" and therefore desired throughout history by both men and women alike. The Bar Jacket is not a manifestation of internalized misogyny or misogynistic attitudes as you suggest.


VOGUE MAGAZINE

An interesting point from Hilary Davidson, author of "Dress in the Age of Jane Austen" in a piece written for the Smithsonian Museum:

For Davidson, the myth that women “walked around in these uncomfortable things that they couldn’t take off, because patriarchy,” truly rankles. “And they put up with it for 400 years? Women are not that stupid,” she says...These garments were comfortable, Davidson adds, not just by the standards of the time.

SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE

And from the same piece, from Curator of Fashion & Textiles at the DAR Museum, Alden O'Brien:

“Society always has a body ideal that will be impossible for many women to reach, and every woman will choose how far to go in the pursuit of that ideal, and there will always be a few who take it to a life-threatening extreme,” O’Brien adds.

O’Brien and Davidson hope people stop thinking of corsets as oppressive tools of the patriarchy, or as painful reminders of women’s obsession with fashion. That attitude “takes away female agency,” O’Brien says.

SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE

 

[tricotineacetat]

No denying it looks fantastic. However, to look back at Dior's original bar jacket today as the ideal is problematic and imo is misguided to use as criteria on which to judge MGC's updated version.

That is where this whole tedious conversation began.

I recall heated debates during the arrival of Hedi Slimane's Dior Homme suits for being similarly restrictive and uncomfortable due to their trim cut and relatively heavy interlinings, much in the tradition of English suit making - I took that as a sign of our times that the new generation to whom these clothes were aimed at had probably never worn any tailored garments before and were unaware of how structured clothes feel on the body. The idea that a generously-cut garment would provide more comfort also negates the fact that a well-proportioned, high-cut armhole provides superior movement. Again, the normalization of activewear clothes as garments for everyday dressing on the streets and beyond has changed the perception of what we consider 'comfortable' and acceptable to wear. The changing codes of dress in favor of sportswear over formalwear speak volumes in this regard.

 

[Deleted member 167090]

I think Maria's interpretation of the bar jacket always looks dated and matronly compared with Raf's ones.

 

[Caffeine]

Lots of things were bought, sold and practiced in the past but are no longer today. Just because they were once widely accepted or popular does not mean they are universally good or cannot be subject to scrutiny.

exactly. which is why we shouldn't judge things in the past with today's standard.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Lots of things were bought, sold and practiced in the past but are no longer today. Just because they were once widely accepted or popular does not mean they are universally good or cannot be subject to scrutiny.

The very thought that gives designers and merchandizers in the high fashion industry free reign to issue t-shirts, hoodies and sneakers that require no elaborate technique or material as valid fashion proposals deserving such astronomical price tags...