Cosmic Wonder S/s 05

[Johnny]

Soft,you say you don't like naivite but you said a while back you liked alot of what Jurgi did. And wasn't part of his signature "childish"?

And Johnny I would most likely wear everything from this,quite frankly. Especially the b&w stuff.

Scott, would you really wear this? I'm genuinely interested. I've never seen anyone wearing anything like this, in Paris or London or anywhere else. On what occasion would you wear it? There's probably other stuff that's more wearable and I know you said you'd only wear "most" of it, but it was this kind of thing that I was thinking of when I said that it was unwearable.

 

[softgrey]

Soft,you say you don't like naivite but you said a while back you liked alot of what Jurgi did. And wasn't part of his signature "childish"?

scott...you're kidding, right?...
i thought you saw his work in person...
the craftmanship was outrageously precise and immaculate...
the design may have had a childlike simplicity at times and showed the hand of artisan...but the execution was beyond immaculate...
which was part of his downfall in the end....
all that detail took hours and hours of precise stitching...which drove the prices through the roof..and made them unreachable for most of his fans...

but the work was on a couture level in terms of detail and finishes... really beyond ready-to-wear...and completely flattering and wearable...
i know...because i wore it ...

 

[purplelucrezia]

I don't think I get it...

 

[softgrey]

johnny...i have a feeling that these kids would love to wear all of this stuff...
and frankly...i'd rather see them in this stuff than the stuff they are actuallly wearing...if only it didn't cost an arm and a leg so they could actually buy it...bummer...

http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/showpost.php?p=466303&postcount=544

 

[Scott]

scott...you're kidding, right?...
i thought you saw his work in person...
the craftmanship was outrageously precise and immaculate...
the design may have had a childlike simplicity at times and showed the hand of artisan...but the execution was beyond immaculate...
which was part of his downfall in the end....
all that detail took hours and hours of precise stitching...which drove the prices through the roof..and made them unreachable for most of his fans...

but the work was on a couture level in terms of detail and finishes... really beyond ready-to-wear...and completely flattering and wearable...
i know...because i wore it ...

Are you sure you've seen all his work? Childish was very much a part of his work. The nervous stitching,the flounces...even in some of the fabric combinations. Only he combined it with a certain chicness of silhouette.

And as far as couture is concerned,I don't think that's something I'd equate him with. His work was much too destroyed in its style to rendered as couture. Certainly,there was an exquisite nature to his simpler pieces but that was only part of his work. His more experimental pieces were extremely idiosyncratic and naïve.

Johnny,are you asking me strictly head-to-toe or could incoroprate it into my wardrobe? My taste is odd anyhow,so yes I'd wear that.

 

[Spacemiu]

Looks great , thanks runner

 

[softgrey]

Are you sure you've seen all his work? Childish was very much a part of his work. The nervous stitching,the flounces...even in some of the fabric combinations. Only he combined it with a certain chicness of silhouette.

And as far as couture is concerned,I don't think that's something I'd equate him with. His work was much too destroyed in its style to rendered as couture. Certainly,there was an exquisite nature to his simpler pieces but that was only part of his work. His more experimental pieces were extremely idiosyncratic and naïve.

scott..as far as i understand it...couture has nothing to do with whether something is destroyed or not...but to do with the the way the garment is constructed...all stitched by hand...so the reason i say that jurgi's work was 'borderline' couture is because of all the hand-work...and what you call 'nervous' stitching...i saw as seemingly random...but extremely precise..not haphazard or scattered...but definitively placed in their seeming randomness to create harmony...and yet if turned inside out...every hem and seam was polished and finished extremely beautifully and professionally...

of course i have not seen every single piece...i don't think anyone can say they've seen every single piece that every designer has ever done...but i have seen quite a bit...i've shot it and i've worn it as well...i saw it in shops in europe ...plus it was in century 21 here in nyc every season...

so that's my perspective...

 

[AlexN]

I don't think I get it...

I'm with ya. Not fond of this at all. It does nothing for me except make my eyes glaze over with ennui.

 

[Scott]

All I'm saying,Soft is that there were contrasts and naïvete was one of them. Even he stated so himself. But of course,the work was much more sublime in the feel but there was also certain "rawness" about it too. It isn't quite as easy peasy as you make it out to be.

Btw,have you ever seen CW stuff? How do you know its alot of money? And how do you honestly know the guy has poor skills...or how can you tell? Do you even like anybody that's coming up/unknown/indie whatever,or are they all basically crap with awful skills? Because really you've been complaining an awful lot lately

 

[metal-on-metal]

I like the Cosmic Wonder stuff. It's pretty easy and unpretentious.

Softgrey, the prices on CW really aren't that bad. It's not K-Mart, but it's definitely affordable for the target customer.

 

[softgrey]

All I'm saying,Soft is that there were contrasts and naïvete was one of them. Even he stated so himself. But of course,the work was much more sublime in the feel but there was also certain "rawness" about it too. It isn't quite as easy peasy as you make it out to be.

Btw,have you ever seen CW stuff? How do you know its alot of money? And how do you honestly know the guy has poor skills...or how can you tell? Do you even like anybody that's coming up/unknown/indie whatever,or are they all basically crap with awful skills? Because really you've been complaining an awful lot lately

whatever scott...i think it's safe to assume that a designer doesn't do a runway show for clothes that are h&m prices...that's just basic common sense...

and anyone with any basic understanding of construction can see that the hems are lumpy and uneven esp on some dresses and tops...(in case you missed it...lena mentioned it as well)...i do not presume that the designer has poor sewing skills..only that this is made to look like the person who made it has poor sewing skills...my assumption is that it is actually intentional...and i also don't presume that the designer actually sewed any of these samples himself...because that's not usually how it works in this business...the staff sews the samples...according to the designer's direction...

you only have to read my posts to see who i like and don't...i don't really know what indie means...as it's not a commonly used term in this industry...it's more of a music term...the majority of designers do not have corporate sponsors...that is a relatively new and still rare phenomenon...
but pretty much ALL of the designers i like (and support financially) are independant...i did a whole story on belgian designers after my trip to antwerp to see what it was all about...featuring..margiela, jurgi, dries, branquinho, bikkembergs, af vandervoorst and thimister, demeulemeester and theyskens......that's right...none of them were known at the time and i got them all exposure in spanish harper's bazaar ...a major international publication...plus i buy and wear their clothes...so excuse me...but i think it's fair to say that i'm doing more than my share of supporting young talent in this industry...

and i think that generally speaking ...i am not the only one who has expressed frustration with the lack of new talent these days...i think that most people are starving for some new blood and something to really knock their socks off...for example...i LOVED preen...i have very strong feelings about their future and their growing success...

part of being an editor is to get an overview and then to hone in on the best of the bunch...and you look at everything with a critical eye because this is a very competetive business...and even minor weaknesses could be the death of you ...it's a dog eat dog world out there and none of the airy fairy stuff matters when figuring out the bottom line...

never ever forgetting that this is not personal...it's business...and in the end...it HAS to sell...

 

[Johnny]

Scott, I think one of the points that softgrey was making was that these clothes are not something that 30-somethings (or even late 20-somethings) would be likely to wear. They're pretty "young", for want of a better term - playfull, naive, colourful etc, not necessarily things that older customers with more money would necessarily be looking for. Yet they are likely to be set at a price level where most "young peple" can't afford to buy them. I think she said that she would much rather kids wore this stuff than what they currently wear anyway, but that they wouldn't be likely to afford it. I think it's just a question of where is the market for this stuff.

 

[softgrey]

... i find it rather funny that someone should question my motives since i've basically made a career of finding and supporting lesser known talent...

thanks for understanding my points johnny...i do think there is a generation gap with some of this stuff...i think it is definitely aimed at a younger market...or that's who relates to it anyway...and i actually said that i thought this collection wasn't bad...i only objected to the way some pieces are 'finished'...

 

[Lena]

Yet they are likely to be set at a price level where most "young people" can't afford to buy them. .

there is a market for the 'young' client, you'd be amazed how much kids are prepared to pay for a hyped up item.
i can see the generation issue though the general trend in fashion for the last like 5 years is for adults continously 'borrowing' looks/trends/attitudes of from youth. Its called kidculture, and its much related/explained to age/resposibility escapism

so there is also a cross over age group that even if 'older' will gladly 'adapt' to the freshness of a 'deliberately younger' product such as in question here.

 

[faust]

I like the Cosmic Wonder stuff. It's pretty easy and unpretentious.

Softgrey, the prices on CW really aren't that bad. It's not K-Mart, but it's definitely affordable for the target customer.

M-O-M, have you been to a store called Gigantic Brand? It's a new comer (Scott found it). I think you'd like it. They carry CW, Stephen Schneider and Bruno Pieters, among others.

 

[Scott]

Ditto. I mean,really you can't ***es what customers really want unless you talk to everybody. And that would take forever. Because on the contrary of what you two say,I know loads of people who would gladly wear the more youthful,experimental stuff. And the majority of them are much older than I am!

This kind of work,it's in our veins now. How else could you imagine somebody like Bernhard Willhelm being able to enjoy so much success?

 

[Johnny]

This kind of work,it's in our veins now. How else could you imagine somebody like Bernhard Willhelm being able to enjoy so much success?

Good question.

Also Scott, you can't be seriously saying that you can't know what customers want unless you ask every one?! That's impossible, as you say. But does that mean than no one has ever known what customers want? Can't you draw conculsions from trends, patterns - you need to generalise to some extent don't you? It really doesn't invalidate an argument questioning the market for a product to say that you can never wholly and empirically verify it.

 

[faust]

Good question.

It is! Cause I don't know the answer.

 

[Scott]

Perhaps,because people do actually relate to it?

Johnny,I was just equating it with the fact that there are people out there that do indeed like this stuff. No need in getting analytical,okay?

 

[softgrey]

*bites her tongue and walks away*...