Donatella Versace - Designer, Creative Director of Versace

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We saw the miracle Mayhoola did with Balmain and Valentino. It’s not bad for brands with a rather weak accessories business.

Prada is luxury good maison. Their job is to make bags. MiuMiu even if it’s a fashion house is run like a luxury goods maison. You see how they have a distinctive aesthetic for their bags and things like that.

Versace doesn’t have that kind of identity.

Vuitton is another thing. It’s not a fashion house. And plus, they have probably the most exclusive retail network out of all the main luxury brands.

Prada can have a million of outlets, produce products specifically for those stores, put logos on every product possible, sell basics with the MiuMiu logo on them, the cool status of the brand will never be altered.

Versace is already selling products on Zalando. They have still their embarrassing VJC license…They should reach for an elevation time.

The success of Prada now is too fragile for me to see them as a right long term partner for a house like Versace. When the MiuMiu hype will slow, they can also find themselves in the same situation as Michael Kors now where they have to focus on the main brands.

Miuccia will leave eventually so the succession issue will come with it set of challenges.

Mayhoola is the just Qatar. They have unlimited funds. They can make the
necessary sacrifices to push Versace to the next step.
If I was them, I would keep Valentino, Balmain, buy Versace and Jimmy Choo.

We saw the miracle Mayhoola did with Balmain and Valentino.
i agree its a miracle they did well , but its down to each house success not a group vision.

And it's exactly my point they tend to have a hands off approach because: Balmain is super tacky, great that it build its followers etc but a Balmain under LVMH would not look like this , i think being apart of a group is also that the group has a level of standard and overall vision for its brands.

Valentino was modern easy pretty luxury because of the two internal designers doing there thing not a vision of Mayhoola , far from what balmian is.

prada and miu miu regardless where they started you can't say they are not hardcore fashion houses with strong acc luxury history , LV has both much like prada , its not exclusively one thing or another as the brands are also received on different levels by buyer or general public.

RTW clients (often 1 procent and the 2 percent and 10 procents ) versus acc buyers often middle class etc buy and experience brand differently

i would even argue that Prada and LV are not even luxury goods , but luxury brands , meaning the are luxury by price /image not by: make & quality nor exclusivity or rarity.

the factory production look is even in design of the bags you see how its calculated how easy can they make this item with just enough bells and whistles to give it a allure of luxury.

not long ago prada had cool status problems let's not forget this no brand is immune from over exposure and image damage.

i do agree prada success now is fragile because they tend to be up up then crash again.

pumping money in a endless money pit is no rich investors game plan, if so Mayhoola would buy up more houses long ago, but instead they are teaming up with kering to have a foot in the door which is also smart game plan to buy or profit form all kering brands.

Mayhool blessing and curse is that the rich oil and natural resources makes the fashion project not a main goal, they have time and there for a chill approach to building a group or brand.

 

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I always thought this is one of the fashion conspiracy theories that it was Bertelli's coup to kill JS and HL to make Prada the only one at that time.

it was a byproduct not the goal, its no secret that even in prada Bertelli´s strong point of view on what to produce etc clashed with even his wife miuccia , this is a man that copy her bags and that how they met year year ago lol

bertelli would ask for certain bag to be put off the store display or windows and muccia would call the team seeing the windows to put her show bags in the window back etc etc or he would design a line of shoes and bags taking ideas of what is trendy and push those for production .

so you can imagine how invasive it must have been for JS and HL

etc etc

 

[Lola701]

We saw the miracle Mayhoola did with Balmain and Valentino.
i agree its a miracle they did well , but its down to each house success not a group vision.

And it's exactly my point they tend to have a hands off approach because: Balmain is super tacky, great that it build its followers etc but a Balmain under LVMH would not look like this , i think being apart of a group is also that the group has a level of standard and overall vision for its brands.

Valentino was modern easy pretty luxury because of the two internal designers doing there thing not a vision of Mayhoola , far from what balmian is.

prada and miu miu regardless where they started you can't say they are not hardcore fashion houses with strong acc luxury history , LV has both much like prada , its not exclusively one thing or another as the brands are also received on different levels by buyer or general public.

RTW clients (often 1 procent and the 2 percent and 10 procents ) versus acc buyers often middle class etc buy and experience brand differently

i would even argue that Prada and LV are not even luxury goods , but luxury brands , meaning the are luxury by price /image not by: make & quality nor exclusivity or rarity.

the factory production look is even in design of the bags you see how its calculated how easy can they make this item with just enough bells and whistles to give it a allure of luxury.

not long ago prada had cool status problems let's not forget this no brand is immune from over exposure and image damage.

i do agree prada success now is fragile because they tend to be up up then crash again.

pumping money in a endless money pit is no rich investors game plan, if so Mayhoola would buy up more houses long ago, but instead they are teaming up with kering to have a foot in the door which is also smart game plan to buy or profit form all kering brands.

Mayhool blessing and curse is that the rich oil and natural resources makes the fashion project not a main goal, they have time and there for a chill approach to building a group or brand.

I think you are coming from a creative aspect. I’m just coming from a business standpoint. I think Valentino and Balmain have maintained some sort of allure despite the expansion.
The distribution has been clever and things like that.
And for me, Balmain, given Olivier’s tendencies to be OTT could have gone really really wrong.

You don’t market a luxury good maison turned luxury brand the same way that you do with a fashion brand.

I remember I don’t know if it was with you that we had that discussion when the sale of Tom Ford was announced. The name of Capri was suggested and I was totally against it and history has prove me right.

You needs to have the vision, the expertise and then pump up the money. And the money is necessary in order to reposition a house.

If the turn around of Valentino goes well and that the house become as big as Saint Laurent and grow faster than Balenciaga, I can see Mayhoola pulling from the sale.

Balmain and Valentino was a miracle but it didn’t happened by chance. They saw the asset, invested with a strategy and worked.

When the original owners of Balmain and when Permira put Valentino open to sale, none of those big groups came to buy them. Someone had to see them as assets for them to envision something out of it.

LVMH is still struggling to make brands like Pucci, Kenzo or Moynat happen AND they have the expertise! KERING is still trying to make Alexander Mcqueen work. Balmain was relaunched in 2005…

 

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I think you are coming from a creative aspect. I’m just coming from a business standpoint. I think Valentino and Balmain have maintained some sort of allure despite the expansion.
The distribution has been clever and things like that.
And for me, Balmain, given Olivier’s tendencies to be OTT could have gone really really wrong.

You don’t market a luxury good maison turned luxury brand the same way that you do with a fashion brand.

I remember I don’t know if it was with you that we had that discussion when the sale of Tom Ford was announced. The name of Capri was suggested and I was totally against it and history has prove me right.

You needs to have the vision, the expertise and then pump up the money. And the money is necessary in order to reposition a house.

If the turn around of Valentino goes well and that the house become as big as Saint Laurent and grow faster than Balenciaga, I can see Mayhoola pulling from the sale.

Balmain and Valentino was a miracle but it didn’t happened by chance. They saw the asset, invested with a strategy and worked.

When the original owners of Balmain and when Permira put Valentino open to sale, none of those big groups came to buy them. Someone had to see them as assets for them to envision something out of it.

LVMH is still struggling to make brands like Pucci, Kenzo or Moynat happen AND they have the expertise! KERING is still trying to make Alexander Mcqueen work. Balmain was relaunched in 2005…

for me its a mix of both creative and business , i agree that have both have some allure but both do have also same tacky side to them , balmain with the shower /beauty part you find at hotels they still have the hair extension line Balmain Hair Professional Extensions and Official Online Boutique | Balmain Hair and are sold in multi brand stores just like prada where they don't control the environment etc Balmain ride the halo of very couture expensive for a long time , Valentino is also easy available and is next to other brand in department stores etc.


Balmain annual sales from €20 million to €300 million 2023 BOF ......

the house is still small so is Valentino 211 directly operated stores in more than 25 countries and has recorded revenues of €1.4 billion and if you compare the years of success they had and rock stud mania etc its not at gucci or dior level yet


i think what saved both is that they are the right size big in name but not 500 stores , and then they have somewhat steady drops of hit items to keep up the momentum or press moments because of something.

i agree capri for Tom ford is not a great idea

pucci had moments but did not continue kenzo was a hit for a while it died down Moynat i don't get it it looks like a mix of goyard and hermes wannabe , but loewe was also not great till JWA dior had also dips between JG and Raf ...givenchy is also struggling up and mainly down, i think it depends on the mix of CD and brand combo when it clicks for the right chemistry and time and vision and product.

the have so many so they are bound to have weak performers in the group

i really stand by the idea that it really starts with the right creative vision and business and money is a support but the vision has to resonate and create buzz and have actual items people love and want to buy into that vision.

business side often is really just supporting and expanding on what the fruits of the creative deliver , true one need also a business vision.

but no great bag or brand started from a great business vision.

its like putting the carriage before the horse

 

[velvetandsilk]

Versace don't understand contemporary world. 10/15 years ago fashion magazine and blog persuaded customer that you hadn't to buy high fashion clothes, only bags and shoes are enough. Baddies don't think about Versace because they buy clothes from fast fashion companies and spend a lot of money for accessories.