Fashion/sex/politics

[Lena]

the problem with fashionably exploited sexuality , is that ironically women (and men) actually buy into the exploiting products.. they need a piece f sexiness and unfortunately the only way they believe they can achieve 'sexy status' is by consuming products promoted through self-degrading publicity.

how f*cked is that?
and how 'pathetic' has our society become?
today we see sexual exploitation by fashion and the media as 'normal'
in the 70s feminists use to go down the streets and object..
but the times seem to be changing and now, the 'younger' generations are so much more 'reacting' to the 'meat market' of 'sexuallity focused products'

kimkhuu, thanks for all the articles and the fab fun ads posted
the nude Versace 'couture' ad was the greatest example of all, still laughing here

 

[iluvjeisa]

In a democracy with a free market there are certain less desirable side effects, such as that companies can sell unhealthy products and project unhealthy images to impressionable people. This has to be controlled within reason, such as ads for nicotine etc. Still, what do we want to do about the "sex sells" thing? Have some censorship that forbids "sexy" images?

Personally, I feel that ads, although their motives are sinister if you will, are often really good art. It is up to the individual to resist any temptation to go with the herd and defy any impulse to start doubting themselves because of their imperfections. I never understood why people feel a need to live up to all these different ideals that they perceive. I think it comes from that risk of sticking out, being outside the pack, regardless of how despicable that pack is. Their mindset makes absolutely no sense to me - and it's all just quite amusing, if tragic.

Basically, I can't understand this passage:

Ads instruct us to assume a self-conscious perspective; to view our physical selves through the censorious eyes of others. To those of us who grew up in the consumer culture, intense selfscrutiny has become an automatic reflex. But this reflex is not God-given; it is the product of decades of deliberate marketing effort.

Why would perfectoid ads lead to self-scrutiny? The image in itself is not what makes us self-scrutinize. It is something else, inherent in some cultures, of self-criticism and insecurity. Why would it be so inconceiveable for a person to view a beautiful ad and think to themselves, just like they do when they meet a beautiful person or whatever, wow, that person is beautiful, and just be happy for them and just admire their beauty? Why does it have to be all about ourselves? I think THAT is the sickness that really pervades our culture. It is just pervertedly self-centered and uncharitable, and for women, this is often done in a passive way, hiding under the seemingly self-obliterating "Oh, I'm not pretty enough, I have to b*tch and whine and make everyone around me aware of their own faults as well, in case they would be carefree enough to not already know about them".

I just don't think the feelings of inadequacy comes from the ads. I think it comes from generations of overt self-criticism and competive behaviour as an effective strategy to surpass others. The ads may feed on some of the most unpleasant aspects of human behaviour, but it is not at the root of it.

 

[BettyCooper]

Kizzume if you're reading this you are a genius

 

[laika]

and how 'pathetic' has our society become?
today we see sexual exploitation by fashion and the media as 'normal'
in the 70s feminists use to go down the streets and object..
but the times seem to be changing and now, the 'younger' generations are so much more 'reacting' to the 'meat market' of 'sexuallity focused products'

Lena, great point. I didn't mean to sound dismissive before when I said these things are "obvious." It's still alarming, especially when you see them all together like this. And letting things become normalized by simply ignoring them is certainly very dangerous. Big thanks to Kimkhuu for assembling all this stuff.

It's precisely because we're not in the 70's anymore, and because youth generation is so different, that I think a different form of protest is needed. Education is extremely important, of course, but I am still wondering how these issues can be actively confronted, now that we are living under such different conditions.

 

[birdofparadise]

None of this is real and doesn't even come close to real world situations in which people's rights are violated. It's all rehearsed, photoshopped, cropped, slicked imagery in which people got paid ($$$$) all the way around to act out false emotions in false situations in clothes chosen by a stylist and so on and so forth. I now understand that much is projected from the male gaze in fashion but it would be naive to suddenly think that men don't feel this way about women to one degree or another. Those feelings/emotions are then pushed to the max to make for an ad that will stop you from flipping to the next page, it's all designed to get your attention by being provocative. If the ads or fashion shows or whatever imitated violence in a more explicit way, tha's one thing but this stuff doesn't even come close. It's just kind of reeks of male bashing to me.

 

[Kimkhuu]

Still, what do we want to do about the "sex sells" thing? Have some censorship that forbids "sexy" images?

Personally, I feel that ads, although their motives are sinister if you will, are often really good art. It is up to the individual to resist any temptation to go with the herd and defy any impulse to start doubting themselves because of their imperfections. I never understood why people feel a need to live up to all these different ideals that they perceive.

Good question Iluvjeisa.

I don't think that in anyway censorship is a good method of refraining sexism/patriarchy. And about resisting the temtaption, I think it is easier said than done, when we are bombarded daily with over 2000 ads, it is hard not to notice. When we look at the numbers, it is hard to ignore that there is a problem.

Birdofparadise, I do not think that "none of this is real" or comes close to "real world situation". Sexism and partriarchy as perpetuaded through by capitalism, the state and popular media in "occidental democracies" is a major issue which oppresses women daily and has major repercussions. Of course, patriarchy is a problem that existed well before the existence of capitalism, and will need confrontation even after the fall of capitalism. "There will be no revolution without women's liberation. There will be no women's liberation without revolution."

 

[Kimkhuu]

Sexist ads

Sean John label fragrance Unforgivable

New York Post

SKYY Vodka

usask.ca

Jimmy Choo - Woman r*pe being BANALIZED

adpulp.com
Gucci

gurl.com

 

[iluvjeisa]

The first two I'd never buy any of that stuff. Disgusting. The last two, though, Jimmy Choo to me is humorous, and I'm a sucker for the Gucci ad It's just sexy in the right way, and I can't for the life of me see how that is degrading to anyone. It's just sexual and funny.

 

[Kimkhuu]

^ That just goes on to show how ads are banalizing violence and the use women bodies to promote their brand/label.

 

[softgrey]

Kimkhuu, can you please post the sources and dates of the texts you have posted?

yes- i'd like to know this too..
please post dates and where these were published...
thanks...

 

[mustard]

sorry if im being nieve (sp) or offensive this isnt intended to be but some of these ads i really dont understand why people think they are offensive.Some of them are obvious like the Gucci one in #207 but the Calvin Klein ad in #194 and the Gucci ad in #195, i really dont think that the designers and photographers were intending them to be offensive or disrespectful towards women, i think they were merley taking photographs of an interesting and beautiful composition.
I understand every body has their own opinionIn my opinion i think things are taken too far and people read too much into things

 

[Kimkhuu]

yes- i'd like to know this too..
please post dates and where these were published...
thanks...

Here you go:

Depicting Women as Sex Objects in Television Advertising: Effects on Body Dissatisfaction by Desiree Tygart taken from http://people.eku.edu/winslowm/psy300/tygart.htm
From this link I took it, there is no date posted.

Teen Girls, Sexism, and Marketeering by Cynthia Peters taken from
zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/1999-03/mar_16peters.htm
March 16 1999
Z net Daily Commentaries

Sexism and Sexuality in Advertising by Michael F. Jacobsen and Laurie Anne Mazur
Source: Jacobson, M. F., & Mazur, L. A. (1995). Sexism and sexuality in advertising. In M. F. Jacobson & L. A. Mazur (Eds.), Marketing madness: A survival guide for a consumer society, (pp. 74-87). Boulder, CO: Westview Press.
Taken from personal.kent.edu/~glhanson/readings/advertising/womeninads.htm

 

[softgrey]

thanks...
it seemed like the data was a bit out of date...
now i can see why...

 

[zamb]

well, the gucci ad in #207 would seem to suggest that the woman is dominant in this situation ( if we are to read anything into it) everyone in the ads seem happy to me.
the reality is that sometimes we take things too far,
sexism exist and will always exist in one form or another. all of these people are being paid (bountifully i might add) to display themselves. i think parents and families have a personal responsibility to teach thier children some sort of self repect and value. This will ultimately be the beginning of the eradication ( or at least the lessening) of sexism

 

[Zazie]

I saw a really good documentary once, about how women are sexualized in advertising. What I find missing is the discourse about the biological dimension in this, in that most humans in their prime, straight or gay, are mostly sexual creatures, and these ads serve a bit of a fantasy function. True, women are victimised too frequently in reality, through r*pe and abuse, yet all those r*pe and S&M fantasies exist and are pleasurable for all sorts of peoples of all ages and sexual orientation. I think biologists and psychologists may better explain this! It's difficult to conclude that it's all outright exploitation, what if there is demand and desire for such fantasies on both ends? I think beyond the criminal, we still need some room to push artistic boundaries, but at the same time, we should be educated on these issues, not just sexism, but also consumerism, etc., so we are aware of what is being "sold" to us, and can make better choices and decisions for ourselves. I'd hate for artistic expression to be stifled, because some of the most interesting photography I love are daring, witty, rude and ironic, and many of them so because they explore some taboos or darker impulses.

 

[laika]

thanks...
it seemed like the data was a bit out of date...
now i can see why...

thanks, softgrey.

I am really sorry to be a pain in the a*s about this. But those first two texts are DRASTIC simplifications of actual scholarly papers (which I found); and they are written by people who have no apparent qualifications. It really bothers me when scientific research is hacked up and misrepresented as activist propaganda--which that Cynthia Peters text blatantly is!

I'm not a scientist; nor am i particularly swayed by so-called "scientific facts," but can we stick to legit sources of information here? I much prefer the opinions and comments of other tfs members to untrustworthy internet information.

 

[BettyCooper]

Kimkhuu, I thought of the Skyy Vodka ads too. They are some of the worst I've seen.

 

[JJohnson]

I saw a really good documentary once, about how women are sexualized in advertising. What I find missing is the discourse about the biological dimension in this, in that most humans in their prime, straight or gay, are mostly sexual creatures, and these ads serve a bit of a fantasy function. True, women are victimised too frequently in reality, through r*pe and abuse, yet all those r*pe and S&M fantasies exist and are pleasurable for all sorts of peoples of all ages and sexual orientation. I think biologists and psychologists may better explain this! It's difficult to conclude that it's all outright exploitation, what if there is demand and desire for such fantasies on both ends? I think beyond the criminal, we still need some room to push artistic boundaries, but at the same time, we should be educated on these issues, not just sexism, but also consumerism, etc., so we are aware of what is being "sold" to us, and can make better choices and decisions for ourselves. I'd hate for artistic expression to be stifled, because some of the most interesting photography I love are daring, witty, rude and ironic, and many of them so because they explore some taboos or darker impulses.

Idk everyone thinks it's just women, but Ive been many ads featuring men and sex. I would post pictures of this, but its very graphic and we do have underaged people here but I do remember when someone made a fake Puma ad called "The blowjob." This was between a woman and man, but Dolce spoofed it and featured two guys. I also remember the YSL ad that ran in V magazine (Stephan Gan is very bold) with a nude guy. Next, has anyone seen past Patrick Cox ads? Do look at the one with the two guys "wrestling" There are many more examples, so the point im trying to make is, it's more than just woman, it's women and men. I do believe female nudity is more prevelent though in the fashion world. The female nude- seems to be very popular for many designers use chiffon tops, so I guess its becoming accepted more and more, but people are also attracted by masculinity and nude men

 

[Zazie]

Idk everyone thinks it's just women, but Ive been many ads featuring men and sex. I would post pictures of this, but its very graphic and we do have underaged people here but I do remember when someone made a fake Puma ad called "The blowjob." This was between a woman and man, but Dolce spoofed it and featured two guys. I also remember the YSL ad that ran in V magazine (Stephan Gan is very bold) with a nude guy. Next, has anyone seen past Patrick Cox ads? Do look at the one with the two guys "wrestling" There are many more examples, so the point im trying to make is, it's more than just woman, it's women and men. I do believe female nudity is more prevelent though in the fashion world. The female nude- seems to be very popular for many designers use chiffon tops, so I guess its becoming accepted more and more, but people are also attracted by masculinity and nude men

This is a good point! Read David Wojnarowicz's "Seven Miles a Second", Jim Caroll's "Basketball Diaries"...very difficult to plough through them emotionally, there's a lot of victimisation, exploitation and abuse of young gay men too, in the streets. I wonder if it's a wider social issue, more about power, and between the haves and have nots....

I am more concerned these days about world wars, and this playing up of the "Clash between West and Islam". It's bringing out the worst in people, costing a lot of lives, already killed a lot of innocent men, women and children, hundreds of thousands. It's a more pressing (and depressing...) concern...

 

[JJohnson]

This is a good point! Read David Wojnarowicz's "Seven Miles a Second", Jim Caroll's "Basketball Diaries"...very difficult to plough through them emotionally, there's a lot of victimisation, exploitation and abuse of young gay men too, in the streets. I wonder if it's a wider social issue, more about power, and between the haves and have nots....

I am more concerned these days about world wars, and this playing up of the "Clash between West and Islam". It's bringing out the worst in people, costing a lot of lives, already killed a lot of innocent men, women and children, hundreds of thousands. It's a more pressing (and depressing...) concern...

interesting...ill look into them. but what do you mean a wider social issue? Please explain. And yes, there are tooooooo many wars! ugh c'est horrible!