Haute Couture Clients

[eternitygoddess]

Americans consistently outwear everyone else in couture. It is very odd.

I noticed this too. After 50+ pages, the only 3 women (IMO) who actually can wear haute couture with taste are Marie-Josee Kravis, Susan Newhouse, and Judith-Ann Corrente.

It's a very specific type of American woman - old-money, East Coast, Upper East Side (white) grand dames married to guys in finance or run a family business.

 

[blueorchid]

Odd in the sense that the world loves to say America has no taste.

I don't think the "entire world" says that America has good taste, just in comparison to places in Europe that are considered to be tasteful. Surely no one thinks that Americans have worse taste than... the Eastern European/Central Asian oligarchs (wives, daughters, mistresses, etc.) that appear in this thread.

 

[Lola701]

I think this thread highlight maybe more the real division between OldMoney and New Money.
The ones that looks better in Haute Couture are generally older women who wears what they likes, what suits them, lives in social circles where aging well doesn’t necessarily mean having a frozen face and wears those expensive clothes like tshirts.

There’s not the « I want to prove » layer aura in them. Which is not necessarily the case for the younger clients and new Rich.

That being said my all time favorite Couture client is not an American. And I have a soft spot for the South American woman from some pages ago.

 

[alwaysademo]

I think America has a more open attitude with wealth in general, but also the perks of a) having the first-wave nouveau riches to have social reasons and personal means to indulge in post-war couture b) being descendants of European old money themselves within the 1% they still adhere to certain eurocentric codes while also c) have sort of a freshness in taste - something unique to a young culture. Thus they wear established designers in a less stuffy, predetermined way, compared to their European/Asian counterparts.
Of the American clients we do see Danielle Steel comes to mind. Being self-made her exhibitionism could afford to be uninhibited, the public knows she made her own literary fortune. Her taste in couture was more lighthearted/ could wander on the gaudier side, or be experimental as first gen couture clients often are, whereas her daughter Vanessa grew up observing her mother attending couture shows and fittings, got to form and refine her own tastes in Europe as a fashion intern, cherry-picks her choices, hence hers is more chic /in line with the edgy fashion dictate but also with traditional client profile. Couture by default is a nepo sport: you understand it better as a second/third gen client, where contacts are already firmly established and all your wardrobe do's and dont's are stabilized according to your social rituals, second gen benefits from seeing all the potential pit holes first gen went through, hone their eye and make more informed choices.

I’m grateful for this list Couturefan puts together yet also aware it's a tidbit compilation, some of the more impressive clients and patrons of couture make herculean efforts not to be seen at all, so i wonder if we’re scraping the bottom of the barrel here.. The real taste-shifters (i.e. key clients who buy a good amount each year) I suspect are even more discrete, more mindful of their business and have a severe complex with wealth-flaunting. Here we look at things through a fashion filter, and I wonder if that has any merit at all as to judge the average client... we see more of the Ayoubs & Kempners & Gutfreunds of the world who relish in peacocking & publicity or have at least an indirect affiliation to fashion but on the other side there’s a big chunk of them who emphatically are not at all.. and limit their presence to the minimum, on & offline. I have a hunch those clients have much different tastes, they certainly do not mirror the ambassadorial mode of an actress. In a fairly recent book by Olivier Saillard on couture there's a page at the end where 2 clients, 1 French Nepali and the other American, having a conversation on their couture habits and even in book form they choose to go only by initials... the culture still locks itself in. So what I find really fascinating with a portion of the clients in this thread is their being largely out of step with the whole modesty/ discretion of the core club rules, posting their itineraries & fittings online etc. I wonder if that’s because these are nr clients and we as a society are more relaxed now in terms of self-expression or it’s indicative of maybe cultural changes within the HC clientele today...... or what.

 

[tourbillions]

north americans are definitely buying their couture for its timelessness and something they hopefully can rewear forever. While in asia the culture for luxury is to buy something as outrageous and as stand out as possible only to be worn once.

 

[LostInNJ]

I think America has a more open attitude with wealth in general, but also the perks of a) having the first-wave nouveau riches to have social reasons and personal means to indulge in post-war couture b) being descendants of European old money themselves within the 1% they still adhere to certain eurocentric codes while also c) have sort of a freshness in taste - something unique to a young culture. Thus they wear established designers in a less stuffy, predetermined way, compared to their European/Asian counterparts.
Of the American clients we do see Danielle Steel comes to mind. Being self-made her exhibitionism could afford to be uninhibited, the public knows she made her own literary fortune. Her taste in couture was more lighthearted/ could wander on the gaudier side, or be experimental as first gen couture clients often are, whereas her daughter Vanessa grew up observing her mother attending couture shows and fittings, got to form and refine her own tastes in Europe as a fashion intern, cherry-picks her choices, hence hers is more chic /in line with the edgy fashion dictate but also with traditional client profile. Couture by default is a nepo sport: you understand it better as a second/third gen client, where contacts are already firmly established and all your wardrobe do's and dont's are stabilized according to your social rituals, second gen benefits from seeing all the potential pit holes first gen went through, hone their eye and make more informed choices.

I’m grateful for this list Couturefan puts together yet also aware it's a tidbit compilation, some of the more impressive clients and patrons of couture make herculean efforts not to be seen at all, so i wonder if we’re scraping the bottom of the barrel here.. The real taste-shifters (i.e. key clients who buy a good amount each year) I suspect are even more discrete, more mindful of their business and have a severe complex with wealth-flaunting. Here we look at things through a fashion filter, and I wonder if that has any merit at all as to judge the average client... we see more of the Ayoubs & Kempners & Gutfreunds of the world who relish in peacocking & publicity or have at least an indirect affiliation to fashion but on the other side there’s a big chunk of them who emphatically are not at all.. and limit their presence to the minimum, on & offline. I have a hunch those clients have much different tastes, they certainly do not mirror the ambassadorial mode of an actress. In a fairly recent book by Olivier Saillard on couture there's a page at the end where 2 clients, 1 French Nepali and the other American, having a conversation on their couture habits and even in book form they choose to go only by initials... the culture still locks itself in. So what I find really fascinating with a portion of the clients in this thread is their being largely out of step with the whole modesty/ discretion of the core club rules, posting their itineraries & fittings online etc. I wonder if that’s because these are nr clients and we as a society are more relaxed now in terms of self-expression or it’s indicative of maybe cultural changes within the HC clientele today...... or what.

I'm sure, as you mentioned, there are plenty of clients who choose to truly be anonymous and not show anything off online, and live their lives off of social media. The old club rules will be loosened as time goes on. I would surmise this is because some of the members are either dying out or no longer purchasing. If the club wants to continue to exist it must evolve; much like anything else in the world of business. You'll get left behind if you don't. Part of the exclusivity and air of mystery will continue to surround couture but not like it once was.

There is a documentary from the 90s/early 00s, I believe, that goes deep inside the world of couture and even in that many of the women are reluctant to say "too much." Whereas today, it's splashed across social media feeds.

However, I don't find it surprising that there has been a shift. Especially with the younger generation who have grown up with/grown into social media. Everything else gets posted and flaunted online, why not this? Not for nothing, but I don't think the brands mind because it's more free publicity for them.

 

[couturefan]

248.- America - Canada - Julie Snyder

She was married to billionaire businessman Pierre Karl Péladeau.

Credits: cbc.ca / alamy.com / vogue.com

 

[brandon J pierre]

248.- America - Canada - Julie Snyder

She was married to billionaire businessman Pierre Karl Péladeau.

Credits: cbc.ca / alamy.com / vogue.com

She better not have paid no more than 15 k for that dress

 

[tourbillions]

She better not have paid no more than 15 k for that dress

why not? it looks very delicate and fits like a glove. And doesn't look like a forgiving fabric to work with.

 

[Kanzai]

north americans are definitely buying their couture for its timelessness and something they hopefully can rewear forever. While in asia the culture for luxury is to buy something as outrageous and as stand out as possible only to be worn once.

Please do not let prejudice and ignorance become the core of your reasoning for your cultural stance. Generally speaking, the civilizations of Asia are much older than any European country, kekw America is not even considered...Tho it's true that Couture and luxury fashion are historical products of European society, something they proudly boast about as evidence of their "superiority" over other continents. The only thing they might deny as their own is imperialism, but ironically, that's the "heritage" the rest of the world knows them for the most. For instance, in my birthplace of Siberia (North Asia), people may not know much about fashion, but most have heard about what the US did in Vietnam in the 1960s.

Returning to the topic of couture customers, evaluating Asian customers (including Russians and Eastern Europeans) as unsuitable might be a bit biased, considering it is clear that you are judging from the perspective of Americans/OG Capitalist countries Europeans, through the lens of "fashion scholars in fashion capitals" to judge the rest of the world. Europe and the Upper East Side of US benefit from the Gulf Stream, having a very favorable and temperate climate, neither too hot nor too cold like the regions in Asia, that in itself is a privilege, honestly!

Instead of making such narrow-minded remarks, maybe try learning about dialectical thinking and the cultural values that evolve over time. Don’t just "see the trees without seeing the forest." Approach the issue in a more worldly manner! Drawing cultural conclusions from a pair of pants or a dress is rather ridiculous lol

 

[tourbillions]

Please do not let prejudice and ignorance become the core of your reasoning for your cultural stance. Generally speaking, the civilizations of Asia are much older than any European country, kekw America is not even considered...Tho it's true that Couture and luxury fashion are historical products of European society, something they proudly boast about as evidence of their "superiority" over other continents. The only thing they might deny as their own is imperialism, but ironically, that's the "heritage" the rest of the world knows them for the most. For instance, in my birthplace of Siberia (North Asia), people may not know much about fashion, but most have heard about what the US did in Vietnam in the 1960s.

Returning to the topic of couture customers, evaluating Asian customers (including Russians and Eastern Europeans) as unsuitable might be a bit biased, considering it is clear that you are judging from the perspective of Americans/OG Capitalist countries Europeans, through the lens of "fashion scholars in fashion capitals" to judge the rest of the world. Europe and the Upper East Side of US benefit from the Gulf Stream, having a very favorable and temperate climate, neither too hot nor too cold like the regions in Asia, that in itself is a privilege, honestly!

Instead of making such narrow-minded remarks, maybe try learning about dialectical thinking and the cultural values that evolve over time. Don’t just "see the trees without seeing the forest." Approach the issue in a more worldly manner! Drawing cultural conclusions from a pair of pants or a dress is rather ridiculous lol

what do you mean??? im asian myself and thats how i see it here. From the middle east, east asia, south east asia. Most people who are into couture at the moment are looking for extra special pieces that everyone will definitely notice if they dare wear it again. That's why a lot of them collect chanels minaudieres. And when you go to gulf women side weddings, they get the most extravagant pieces as thats one of the only few times they can openly wear couture without modifications to cover themselves. Even for what we buy in high fashion brands the same happens. Its just the current culture, i never said it was always like that nor i made any huge claims mocking the culture.

 

[TianCouture]

Please do not let prejudice and ignorance become the core of your reasoning for your cultural stance. Generally speaking, the civilizations of Asia are much older than any European country, kekw America is not even considered...Tho it's true that Couture and luxury fashion are historical products of European society, something they proudly boast about as evidence of their "superiority" over other continents. The only thing they might deny as their own is imperialism, but ironically, that's the "heritage" the rest of the world knows them for the most. For instance, in my birthplace of Siberia (North Asia), people may not know much about fashion, but most have heard about what the US did in Vietnam in the 1960s.

Returning to the topic of couture customers, evaluating Asian customers (including Russians and Eastern Europeans) as unsuitable might be a bit biased, considering it is clear that you are judging from the perspective of Americans/OG Capitalist countries Europeans, through the lens of "fashion scholars in fashion capitals" to judge the rest of the world. Europe and the Upper East Side of US benefit from the Gulf Stream, having a very favorable and temperate climate, neither too hot nor too cold like the regions in Asia, that in itself is a privilege, honestly!

Instead of making such narrow-minded remarks, maybe try learning about dialectical thinking and the cultural values that evolve over time. Don’t just "see the trees without seeing the forest." Approach the issue in a more worldly manner! Drawing cultural conclusions from a pair of pants or a dress is rather ridiculous lol

it's not that serious, i promise. you sound like you're defending k-pop. take it to twitter hun!

 

[Kanzai]

you sound like you're defending k-pop

...omegalol. What kind of this nonsense ??? And what's wrong with K-Pop and the fans, are they fascists ?

 

[Ninocka98]

205.- America - US - Jill Fertitta

Credits: youtube.com / instagram.com / vogue.com

Awful, example of how downgrade HC

 

[Caffeine]

America has no taste

I had thought that buying Couture was less to do with taste, but more to do with $.
Making couture is more to do with taste ;-)

 

[TianCouture]

I had thought that buying Couture was less to do with taste, but more to do with $.
Making couture is more to do with taste ;-)

I mean you chose to focus on that part of my comment, which is fine, but that is totally subjective. Just like taste!
You can be dirt poor and have exquisite taste. You can be loaded and have s*** taste. comme ci comme ça

 

[JohannesL]

Though fashion taste is always subjective, I think it has more to do with one's perception with money where "old money" is generally perceived as far less flamboyant than “new money” than the existing cultural superiority. To me, those dirty money in the previous pages (notably those Cambodians if you happened to read their stories) are just so distasteful that they flaunt their money in a way that is insulting and humiliating to their people who have been suffering from political corruption for a long time. Karl was right in "Secret World of Haute Couture", you never ask where their money come from even if we know the U.S. is just as corrupt as the rest of the world or some countries are just more corrupt than others.

 

[MulletProof]

it's not that serious, i promise. you sound like you're defending k-pop. take it to twitter hun!

it's a forum, people.. gasp, discuss fashion at length, and there's a whole exchange preceding Kanzai's post. Nothing surprising about Americans reacting to a gross generalization about Americans and someone in another region doing exactly the same.

HC in any society is an extravagance and in all socioeconomic contexts, its consumption carries a layer of tastelessness no matter how beautiful the craft itself is. How it's presented is proportional to every culture's own pyramid of status, whatever is perceived as louder or demure and discreet, take it out of context and it will completely change value. Insert these same players into a different environment and they will consume differently and express their same attachment to luxury in a different way, so it's not necessarily that some people lack refinement or understanding or that HC is so elevated and rocket science but that people respond primarily to the rules of their own society, you can judge it from outside based on another society's parameters but it's meaningless without knowing the dynamics..

The only pattern I see here, and I think some of us mentioned it before, is that the more sheltered wealthy people make the mistake of surrounding themselves by yes people only, and they simultaneously downplay the importance of image because they think other elements (last name, position, assets) will give them a pass.... so they clothes wear them and they tend to look like buffoons. Ironically, the more detached from a world they look down on, and perhaps the wider and louder the gap of inequality is in their culture, the cheaper they make the most expensive clothes look [Insert Dolly Parton quote].

 

[Caffeine]

I mean you chose to focus on that part of my comment, which is fine, but that is totally subjective. Just like taste!
You can be dirt poor and have exquisite taste. You can be loaded and have s*** taste. comme ci comme ça

Judging from the above, you must have misunderstood what I meant:
American has the highest number of rich people in the world, so it doesn't surprise me that the US has the highest number of couture clients.
Let's not pretend that people dirt poor but with exquisite taste can afford couture.

 

[brandon J pierre]

why not? it looks very delicate and fits like a glove. And doesn't look like a forgiving fabric to work with.

It looks amazing fits perfectly love the chic day vibes