Hip Hop: What is The Message?

[sugarpea]

it isnt productive to include articles like the one above...we understood your point the first time around: that alot of mainstream rappers have criminal backgrounds. now say something substantive as to what the implications are of these rappers' criminal backgrounds on their fans...if you cant think of any, then you really dont have any points...

 

[taste of summer]

imo the rap culture is infested with criminal activity. the violence & gang wars worry me the most. its a poor example for the young of today. every day theres a new article about violence in the rap community. theres no way to defend that conduct. every rap cd i hear is full of profanity, threats of shooting stabbing, gang boasts, violence against women, its a horrible message & as bill cosby has said it needs reform asap, the circle of crime in the african american community must be mended & education is the only solution. by showing bad examples of crime among rappers one can learn how NOT to live. you cant possibly be defennding the daily crimes committed by rap stars? i defend hip hop music as an artform, but the 'free pass' some posters here give to the criminal activity & records & threats of rappers is frightening, I cant believe any sentient person defends the criminal conduct described in black & white in every days newspaper.

 

[sugarpea]

imo the rap culture is infested with criminal activity. the violence & gang wars worry me the most. its a poor example for the young of today. every day theres a new article about violence in the rap community. theres no way to defend that conduct. every rap cd i hear is full of profanity, threats of shooting stabbing, gang boasts, violence against women, its a horrible message & as bill cosby has said it needs reform asap, the circle of crime in the african american community must be mended & education is the only solution. by showing bad examples of crime among rappers one can learn how NOT to live. you cant possibly be defennding the daily crimes committed by rap stars? i defend hip hop music as an artform, but the 'free pass' some posters here give to the criminal activity & records & threats of rappers is frightening, I cant believe any sentient person defends the criminal conduct described in black & white in every days newspaper.

i am not defending the criminal activity of rappers. what i am stressing is that is has no real, documented impact on rap listeners...one's environment has far more of an impact...take away the negative messages in hip-hop, you will still have segregated, decrepit urban public schools, racial profiling, crackdowns on drug dealers and drug users that are far more intense than they are in the suburbs even though most drug users are in the suburbs, violent gangs etc...you will still have environments that encourage violent behavior, if only because access better educational and political opportunites do not exist in urban communities...what i am getting at is that hip-hop is not the problem...and for politicians and laypeople alike to blame hiphop and to focus their criticism on denigrating hiphop is to deflect energy from tackling real urban problems

also, concerning the violent messages in rap, as i said before it has no real impact or causal relationship between the messages and behavior...in fact, the fact that suburban kids do NOT emulate their favourite rappers is evidence that environment not music impacts behavior..the fact that generally, predominantly white suburbs have better educational systems etc creates an environment such that hiphop messages to do not impact behavior....

also, i love hip-hop more than anything, but the reason that you have such crappy rappers on the radio (and other crappy artists in other genres) is that you have perhaps two or three corporations owning all of the stations and they create setlists that are distributed around the country for all of their member stations and thus only the lowest-common denominator gets played because it will appeal to the broadest audience...thus, artists who glorify violence and objectify women will get record play and to maintain that record play, you need to continue those sort of messages...so if you dont like those messages, blame the radio companies and the record executives because they have the most say in what messages you hear...

 

[travolta]

sugarpea you earned yourself a karma point

 

[czilla]

take away the negative messages in hip-hop, you will still have segregated, decrepit urban public schools, racial profiling, crackdowns on drug dealers and drug users [...] you will still have environments that encourage violent behavior, if only because access to better educational and political opportunites do not exist in urban communities...what i am getting at is that hip-hop is not the problem...and for politicians and laypeople alike to blame hiphop and to focus their criticism on denigrating hiphop is to deflect energy from tackling real urban problems

Oh baby. So well said, and I'll pen smthing to add tomorrow, but for now I'll summarize my thoughts with this:

Unh!

I can think of no heartier and hotly felt exclamation.

 

[sugarpea]

thanks travolta and czilla!

 

[evexa]

I used to love hip hop, rap stars like tupac and warren G were poets IMHO.
I have only recently become turned off by it - not because of the lyrics, but because of the monotonous repetition of the same loops, poor lyrics and more (or less) style than substance.
The lyrics really don't bother me, have you heard Kid Rock's lyrics? Rap/Hip-Hop isn't the only rebel rousing, potty-mouthed genre.

 

[esiders]

also, i love hip-hop more than anything, but the reason that you have such crappy rappers on the radio (and other crappy artists in other genres) is that you have perhaps two or three corporations owning all of the stations and they create setlists that are distributed around the country for all of their member stations and thus only the lowest-common denominator gets played because it will appeal to the broadest audience...thus, artists who glorify violence and objectify women will get record play and to maintain that record play, you need to continue those sort of messages...so if you dont like those messages, blame the radio companies and the record executives because they have the most say in what messages you hear...

WORD!

Hip hop is a multi-billion dollar industry...from records to clothes to sneakers to language to jewelry to sports drinks. What other musical genre has that kind of reach? NONE. As a result of hip hop going global, you got the industry leeches who usually attach themselves to something hot. It's Economics 101 - supply and demand.

Rapping about material items over a thumping beat is what sells. Fall 2004, while everyone was bumpin to "Drop It Like It's Hot", Nas made a great record called "Bridging the Gap" talking about how the blues influenced his music and hip hop. Nas' song barely got any airplay in NYC, while Snoop & Pharell were being blasted everywhere. I can't blame Snoop for his success...I blame the industry and its "formula". And by industry I'm talking about the record companies, the radio stations, MTV, BET, VH-1...because how are consumers supposed to hear different types of hip hop if it doesn't get airplay??

 

[Fade to Black]

WORD!

Hip hop is a multi-billion dollar industry...from records to clothes to sneakers to language to jewelry to sports drinks. What other musical genre has that kind of reach? NONE. As a result of hip hop going global, you got the industry leeches who usually attach themselves to something hot. It's Economics 101 - supply and demand.

Rapping about material items over a thumping beat is what sells. Fall 2004, while everyone was bumpin to "Drop It Like It's Hot", Nas made a great record called "Bridging the Gap" talking about how the blues influenced his music and hip hop. Nas' song barely got any airplay in NYC, while Snoop & Pharell were being blasted everywhere. I can't blame Snoop for his success...I blame the industry and its "formula". And by industry I'm talking about the record companies, the radio stations, MTV, BET, VH-1...because how are consumers supposed to hear different types of hip hop if it doesn't get airplay??

As much as I like Nas, I don't think "Bridging the Gap" was that good...to me Nas hasn't made a great album since It Was Written, everything out since then has been inconsistent with sparse moments of greatness here and there, and "Bridging the Gap" was one of the weaker songs on Street's Disciple for me. Making records geared for airplay has never been Nas' strong suit though, i think he's at his element most on grimey street records, although "No One Else in the Room" was hot to me as it sounded like some vintage Quincy Jones instrumentals...

As for "Drop It Like It's Hot," i don't think it's fair to discredit it just because it was a commercial song...the beat was an excellent exercise in hip-hop minimalism, it was definitely one of the better commercial records of last year and I'm surprised Rhythm & Gangsta isn't selling more copies, that album had quite a few well-timed singles that were not only accessible from a commercial standpoint but were also just damn good records that displayed the Neptunes' versatility and talent as producers, like "Let's Get Blown" and "Signs"

 

[Fade to Black]

I used to love hip hop, rap stars like tupac and warren G were poets IMHO.
I have only recently become turned off by it - not because of the lyrics, but because of the monotonous repetition of the same loops, poor lyrics and more (or less) style than substance.
The lyrics really don't bother me, have you heard Kid Rock's lyrics? Rap/Hip-Hop isn't the only rebel rousing, potty-mouthed genre.

Pac is never going to have an equal, especially in today's rap game. But Warren G?!?!?! I don't think he's the best example of a "poet"

 

[Fade to Black]

I dunno about a message, but this is easily the greatest verse in hip-hop history...

"Through the lights cameras and action, glamour glitters and gold
I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe
When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast
to conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets
Live on the run, police paying me to give in my gun
Trick my Wisdom, with the system that imprisoned my son
Smoke a gold leaf I hold heat, nonchalantly
I'm raunchy, but things I do is real it never haunts me
while, funny style niggaz roll in the pile
Rooster heads profile on a bus to Riker's Isle
Holdin weed inside they p*ssy with they minds on the
pretty things in life, gettin props is a true thug's wife
It's like a cycle, niggaz come home, some'll go in
Do a bullet, come back, do the same sh*t again
From the womb to the tomb, presume the unpredictable
Guns salute life, rapidly, that's the ritual" - Nas from "Verbal Intercourse"

damn he used to be raw as hell...

 

[evexa]

Pac is never going to have an equal, especially in today's rap game. But Warren G?!?!?! I don't think he's the best example of a "poet"

You are right, Warren G wasn't an example of a poet - just someone who's sound I liked.

 

[Fade to Black]

yeah i know what you mean, that laid back west coast vibe perfect for summertime...back then the West Coast could do no wrong. DJ Quik is another master of that type of sound in the 90's.

 

[FunTimePartyTeam]

buck 65 raps like an old man,
he's my fav

oh, and he has songs about how the f word makes him feel uncofortable
and cigarettes are lame

 

[misskra]

280 million dollar suit, is that fool crazy, hell at least holocaust victims or former slaves deserve that, not individually but ya know..

 

[clay]

i have to agree with only negative rap gets airplay and exposure to the masses. That is the real problem. For me this is one of the messages i get from frpm hip hop:
( Talib Kweli] K.O.S. Knowledge of self(Determination) fm Blackstar
So many emcees focusin on black people extermination
We keep it balanced with that knowledge of self, determination
It's hot, we be blowin the spots, with conversations
C'mon let's smooth it out like Soul Sensation

We in the house like Japanese in Japan, or Koreans in Korea
Head to Philly and free Mumia with the Kujichagulia TRUE
Singin is swingin and writin is fightin, but what
they writin got us clashin like titans it's not excitin
No question, bein a black man is demandin
The fire's in my eyes and the flames need fannin (3X)

With that what? (Knowledge Of Self) Determination
*repeat 4X*

[singer]
Things I say and do, may not come quite through
My words may not convey just what I'm feelin

[Talib Kweli]
Yes yes come on, yes yes
Knowledge Of Self is like life after death
With that you never worry about your last breath
Death comes, that's how I'm livin, it's the next days
The flesh goes underground, the book of life, flip the page
Yo they askin me how old, we livin the same age
I feel the rage of a million niggaz locked inside a cage
At exactly which point do you start to realize
That life without knowledge is, death in disguise?
That's why, Knowledge Of Self is like life after death
Apply it, to your life, let destiny manifest
Different day, same confusion, we're gonna take this
hip-hop sh*t and keep it movin, shed a little light
Now y'all bloomin like a flower with the power of the evident
Voices and drums original instruments
In the flesh presently presentin my representation

With that what? (Knowledge Of Self) Determination
*repeat 6X*
- - - - these two parts overlap - - - -
Things I say and do, may not come quite through
My words may not convey just what I'm feelin
*repeat 2X*

[Talib Kweli]
The most important time in history is, NOW, the present
So count your blessings cause time can't define the essence
But you stressin over time and you follow the Roman calendar
These people enter Cona like Gattaca, you can bet
they tryin to lock you down like Attica, the African diaspora
represents strength in numbers, a giant can't slumber forever
I know you gotta get that cheddar whatever
Aiyyo I heard you twice the first time money, get it together
You must be History, you repeatin yourself out of the pages
You keepin yourself depleatin your spiritual wealth
That quick cash'll get your *** quick fast in houses of detention
Inner-city concentration camps where no one pays attention
or mentions the ascension of death, til nothing's left
The young, gifted and Black are sprung addicted to crack
All my people where y'all at cause, y'all ain't here
And your hero's using your mind as a canvas to paint fear
With, broad brush strokes and tales of incarceration
You get out of jail with that Knowledge of Self determination
Stand in ovation, cause you put the Hue in Human
Cause and effect, effect everything you do
and that's why I got love in the face of hate
Hands steady so the lines in the mental illustration is straight
The thought you had don't even contemplate
Infinite like figure eight there's no escape..

From that what? (Knowledge Of Self) Determination
*repeat 4X*

Things I say and do, may not come quite through
My words may not convey just what I'm feelin
*repeat 2X*

..

Things I say and do, may not come quite through
My words may not convey just what I'm feelin
*repeat 2X*

What I'm feelin, what I'm feelin, ooooh, what I'm feelin...


**I never heard this song on any station. But I had to find it. I love this song and many others like out there. Without out all that terrible crap out there, i would not have found this jewel. Thats why the negative has to be able to exist unfortanatly.

 

[Dego]

this is the same girl who was on the last song from The Roots' "Things Fall Apart" album, right? That was a dope spoken word piece she did...

She also does some spoken word on Sixth Sense, by Josh Wink.

 

[meme527]

Funny you should mention Dylan
he's said he agrees with rap, i suppose the rhyming skills and talent, just not with the lack of substance.

and we all know what "the message" is:

Broken glass everywhere
People pissing on the stairs, you know they just
Don’t care
I can’t take the smell, I can’t take the noise
Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice
Rats in the front room, roaches in the back
Junkie’s in the alley with a baseball bat
I tried to get away, but I couldn’t get far
Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car

Don’t push me, cause I’m close to the edge
I’m trying not to loose my head
It’s like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder
How I keep from going under

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five ya'll

wow, tokyo vogue. just reading those lyrics gave me goose bumps. i can still remember the very first time i heard that song;

a child is born with no state of mind
blind to the ways of mankind
god is smiling on you
but god's frowning too
because only god knows what you'll go through.....

 

[meme527]

As a reaction to Glenn Miller's ilk there was hardcore bebop - a form of music so ridiculously complex that no 'white boy' from the suburbs was ever going to listen to it, or that was the theory. But then look at the artists themselves. John Coltrane fights addiction, Charlie Parker dies of an overdose, Miles Davis takes a break from Jazz to become a pimp. This is a pretty extended analogy but you cannot deny that the culture that created these men - be it 'ghetto' culture, music culture, Jazz culture - clearly have issues with drugs, the law and women. Hip hop or rap just takes it stage further by making these issues the focus of the music. It isn't just what the audiences want to hear.

this stretched out analogy is incorrect from start to finish.

as for bebop being invented so that white boys couldn't play it - huh? i have a degree in music - and am working on another one - and i have never heard THAT particular bit of news.

John Coltrane was practically a bloody saint - if you don't know his story, then just refrain from bringing him up.

Charlie Parker was a heroin addict, true. like a lot of other very talented people, black white and other, he was mentally ill. he also changed the world of music forever. i would consider his death more of a tragedy than evidence of his criminal nature.

as did Miles. unfortunately, i think Miles was also an abusive, misogynist, a*****e. no shortage of them anywhere in the world. doesn't have a thing to do with the color of his skin.

the CULTURE that created this men is Western Civilization - the same culture that you are a part of. jackson browne slapped darryl hannah. christian slater allegedly grabbed a woman's *** on the street. jennifer wilbanks ran away from home and claimed a mexican man and his girlfriend raped and kidnapped her. david crosby, james taylor, keith richards, dude from jane's addiction, courtney love, keith moon, dave navarro - and those are just the old-school musicians that i can name off the top of my head - all drug addicts, either recovering or actively using. let's not even talk about that right wing joker with the talk show. this entire culture has "issues" with women, drugs and the law.

meme

 

[meme527]

i defend hip hop music as an artform, but the 'free pass' some posters here give to the criminal activity & records & threats of rappers is frightening, I cant believe any sentient person defends the criminal conduct described in black & white in every days newspaper.

i haven't seen a single post that defended criminal activity of any kind on this thread.