Is there a choice between fashion forward and commercial?

[luisa]

i was wondering what you thought: do you feel like a brand/designer/house has to chose whether they want to be fashionforward and "cool" or just sell really well?
aren't it the not so fashion forward brands that sell so good? and why is that? because many people don't "understand" fashion? how to stores keep the balance between buying fashion forward clothes and easy-to-sell products?

 

[G Boy]

I know what you mean, what they put out on the runway isn't always practical or even good looking street wear. But to answer your question I'd say diffusion lines like AX and Polo Ralph Lauren keep the balance between good looking but profitable clothes and artistic creativity.

 

[F0F0]

...how to stores keep the balance between buying fashion forward clothes and easy-to-sell products?

A product mix that could work for some high-street and independents retailers:

- 30% DIRECTIONAL - Fashion forward product
- 50% COMMERCIAL - Trend-relevant product with a good price/value balance and broad appeal
- 20% VOLUME - Mass-market product at lower price points with trend influences

Source: WGSN, 2010

 

[glitterpeacock]

From vogue UK:
http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/daily/110311-yohji-yamamoto-on-designer-pressure.aspx
'YOHJI YAMAMOTO has rebuked claims there is an increasing amount of pressure put on today's designers.'
"I do think the power of fashion has gone down [...] Making money is so important now. It's not about fashion as much as it is expensive handbags. Then there's this cheap diluted fashion. What is important has changed."

 

[brooksie]

Yup there's often a choice to be made. Even for many designers known for being "fashion forward", they often modify the runway look for retail esp when it's sold outside of their stores.

There are some outlets known for selling runway looks, but they are usually of the boutique variety and specialize in cutting edge looks.

 

[brooksie]

From vogue UK:
http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/daily/110311-yohji-yamamoto-on-designer-pressure.aspx
'YOHJI YAMAMOTO has rebuked claims there is an increasing amount of pressure put on today's designers.'
"I do think the power of fashion has gone down [...] Making money is so important now. It's not about fashion as much as it is expensive handbags. Then there's this cheap diluted fashion. What is important has changed."

Things have dramatically changed since Yohji started...that's for sure. If he started now, he'd probably be seen as a niche line like Rodarte is today. Much admired perhaps, but struggling to stay afloat. I guess a designer could focus more on things other than accessories when not owned by huge corporations. These days, there are relatively few designers that are considered successful if they don't put out tons of stuff and those small indie people seek accessories deals to raise revenue for their design biz. It's a tail chasing thing here cycle here.

I guess Yohji was lucky to get his start in the time and place that he did, but the whole thing has changed since then. This new crop has very different and difficult choices to make. Ahh well...

 

[xPedro]

IMO a designer has to stick with his concept, with his style, not matter what, just look at Balenciaga, we all know that Ghesquiere's collections are not very commercial, but he has been holding his place at Balenciaga for more than 10 years without getting boring.

 

[mikeijames]

one also has to consider that fashion forward for some designers remains absolutely commercial for another. we have some designers who push the envelope of fashion so much so that it becomes commercial within a season. the yves saint laurent tulip skirt remains one of the clearest examples of this. it got panned on the runway and by the next year, every single mass market retailer had trouble keeping styles like that in stock.

now, it's a completely different process at a fashion house persay vs. a retail store with buyers.

 

[softgrey]

Things have dramatically changed since Yohji started...that's for sure. If he started now, he'd probably be seen as a niche line like Rodarte is today. Much admired perhaps, but struggling to stay afloat.

how is this different than what yohji is actually experiencing today?
he filed for bankruptcy last year for heaven's sake...



he is totally niche...
and pretty much always has been, no?...

y-3 makes some money, yes...
but that is owned by adidas...so guess who is getting the big paycheck there...

yes- things have changed...
but the more things change...
the more things stay the same...

 

[ediewho]

I think it gotta be a balance between these 3 things: basics (total atemporal); trendy stuff; things that might be trendy someday or not & are kinda refreshing to balance the tow previous ones...
sometimes i miss there would be a bit more of the third one in stores...

 

[brooksie]

softgrey...no, there was a time when the Japanese designers had more market share, more editorial space, and generally speaking were considered the new creative kids on the block. During much of the early-middle part of his career, that look was pushed closer to the mainstream than anything like Rodarte was/is. That said, I don't know about sales during this period, but you were far more likely to see a Yohji/Issey/Rei worn in real life at one point than a Rodarte these days.

 

[Leeroi]

softgrey...no, there was a time when the Japanese designers had more market share, more editorial space, and generally speaking were considered the new creative kids on the block. During much of the early-middle part of his career, that look was pushed closer to the mainstream than anything like Rodarte was/is. That said, I don't know about sales during this period, but you were far more likely to see a Yohji/Issey/Rei worn in real life at one point than a Rodarte these days.

Yup, in Europe especially where Yohji was much loved. His clothes were also used numerous times in editorials in big magazines.

You rarely see his clothes now a days in editorial pieces in Vogue.

 

[esperanza1988]

If you want to balance, you can choose some basic items, such as legging, tees which almost everyone needs, and at the same time, include some fashionable cloth. At least, you need not to worry that the basic can't be sold out.

 

[ultramarine]

But what has happened to the "small, brainy" designers?

Like the ones from the Antwerp Six? They made splashes but some have quietly retreated.

Is is a reflection on the market? Now people want brands and there's no room for clothes with intelligentsia?

To me it seems so :/

Just look at Rei .. I think she manages to stay afloat thanks to all her diffusion lines and collabs, dont you think?

 

[F0F0]

But what has happened to the "small, brainy" designers?

Like the ones from the Antwerp Six? They made splashes but some have quietly retreated.

Is is a reflection on the market? Now people want brands and there's no room for clothes with intelligentsia?

Yes, markets respond to consumer's demands. BUT some markets anticipate or better serve consumer's individual and very particular needs. These are the niche markets were some individuals and companies/other individuals trade and consume specialised goods like intelligentsia clothing.