Luxe attack for China

[Alpha Femme]

BTW ,

To get us back on topic , as far as ' Luxe attack for China ' is concerned , I found this today :-
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Relevant to our discussion , wouldn't you say ?
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Excellent post, more on target with the subject.

 

[Alpha Femme]

I don't really know whether the crime rate has gone up or down in general, but I did read an interesting article a few months ago: violent crimes have actually decreased the past decades, but people are more prone than ever to view society as violent and dangerous. Maybe because crime is more sensationalised nowadays, there are more pictures and juicier headlines.

We can pm each other about Sweden if you like, because it's really getting off topic . As far as the crime in Sweden is concern, both you and I know how bad it really is in Sweden. Don't want to go off topic, so I will end it with some reading for you (and others) to read about what's going on in Sweden.

Dhimmi Watch: The situation in Sweden

 

[Lena]

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The rise in consumption has alarmed dieticians, who say that obesity rates have doubled in 10 years, and environmentalists, who say the planet will be doomed if China's 1.3bn population starts to eat and shop like Americans or Europeans.
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"China is the future of civilisation," said Sylvie Douce, producer of the Salon de Chocolat, which has held annual events in France, the US and Japan since it started 11 years ago.

"In Japan, when we first arrived, they didn't eat much chocolate, but now everyone does. It will be the same here. I want to be here right at the start."

Relevant to our discussion , wouldn't you say ?
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amazing article kit, thanks so much for sharing..
i was only reading yesterday that those girls working at the fashion industries get payed anything from 85 to 120 euros per month.. can't see them affording anything from Prada soon..

on the other hand, Mme Douce sounds a bit silly being quoted "China is the future of civilisation" maybe she should replace "civilisation" with "capitalism" sad to see in some people's books those two words mean the same thing

Off topic: Maison du Chocolat has excellent chocolates

 

[kit]

amazing article kit, thanks so much for sharing..
i was only reading yesterday that those girls working at the fashion industries get payed anything from 85 to 120 euros per month.. can't see them affording anything from Prada soon..

on the other hand, Mme Douce sounds a bit silly being quoted "China is the future of civilisation" maybe she should replace "civilisation" with "capitalism" sad to see in some people's books those two words mean the same thing

Off topic: Maison du Chocolat has excellent chocolates

Glad you're pleased with the article .

I have had a discussion with Alpha Femme by PM .

I've told her that I hope she sticks around as there's much she can enlighten us on . B)

I've heard about La Maison du Chocolat , but I would imagine that they're only available in London .

As a treat , I have to make do with LEONIDAS , GODIVA or VALRHONA .

VERY nice .

 

[jenn]

I love la maison du chocolat


Regarding the topic at hand. China has historically been very good at keeping things the same for many many years. All of this is starting to change, very quickly. In time, China will no longer be a place where labor can be found cheaply, counterfeit goods can therefore not be made cheaply anymore either. It's a double edged sword for them. If they stunt growth to maintain their level of exports they will slow down their potential for economic gain. IFf they continue on their fast paced track to economic growth, they will lose the very thing that has been successful for them.

OK sorry, I guess I didn't really keep with the topic

 

[Lena]

agreed jenn, China will not be able to support those ultra cheap wages/production costs in the near future..
i just keep my fingers crossed so that european production houses stay 'open' till then... because signs arent that promising at the moment, sadly enough EU fabric and manufacturing factories close down one after the other , unable to keep up with the Chinese competition

 

[maverick]

Utopistic economics!

 

[paris]

my thoughts...

Another point we have to acknowledge is that many Chinese are not able to freely travel outside of China & Hong Kong. It is extremely difficult for them to go to NY, London, Paris, Milan, where all these High Luxe stores are headquartered, so to bring Shanghai, Beijing, all these products, and setting up their shops, they have access to the elite Chinese.

Unfortunately, my work has me traveling between New York and Shanghai (I am complaining about the travel! It is a long trip!), and yes, there are tons of factories in China, yet a huge problems facing the labor is 1. Workers migrate from one factory to another, so to deter that, the factories withold their wages until new years. 2. Chinese for a large part believe that they will start working somewhere, but eventually they want to pave the path to be their own boss using learned skills, or jumping into something else with the money they saved, borrowed, etc...

Living on and off in China for my work, I can see how much the Chinese desire to improve their lives, the housing market in Shanghai & Beijing is the biggest investment for many people and corporations. Even the idea that you buy an apt or a factory, but you actually have a lease for over 75-80 years, I forget the exact number, from the government. It's really a reminder of who has the ultimate say & power.

Or places like Xintiendi, in Shanghai, a beautiful place with fine dining, high end stores, these buildings were houses that were originally intended for 1 family, and after the communist took over, families up to 10 cohabitated in these homes, until they hired an American Architect who envisioned what is now standing in Shanghai, and those people living there? Oh they got relocated outside of central Shanghai, in a new apt...

If anything, I regard China in awe, The people have a passion: to live, to better their lives, but at the same time the structure that holds it all together is always being renovated, by so many different kinds of contractor.

The beauty of China, is also in it's vastness, the beaches of Xiamen, the cosmopolitan life of Shanghai, Xian's nature, Beijing's history... all this is what I find enchanting about China.

The manners of the people, the pushiness, the grabbing, the focusing of me-first, THAT I can do without. Oh and the spitting! I hate that foul habit of spitting every where, even in houses!

okie, that's my 2 cents

 

[shambles]

I have read somewhere (was it here? I can't remember) that the luxury stores (LV, Gucci etc.) in China will not turn a profit for at least 5 years. They are just staking their claim now while rent is still (relatively) cheap, but the majority of Chinese cannot afford to buy these kinds of goods. Yes, foreigners do come in and buy luxury goods, but for the most part people prefer to buy these kinds of things elsewhere, not in China... If I'm wrong, someone please correct me!

 

[Lena]

very interesting input Paris and Shambles, thanks for joining in

 

[Spacemiu]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1074151,00.html

 

[Lena]

amazing cover and must read article, thanks space

 

[faust]

lmao at the cover, too funny.

 

[Pinky*]

in a way it does, since China is still supposedly a communist country falling softly in the hands of luxury.
of course it all started by the west exploiting China's ability for supplying the 'western' market with cheap mass produced goods...

for me, it's like this:
'we buy from them, we make them rich and then.. we go over there to take 'our' money back by selling them what they never knew.. luxury'

somehow its the perfect 'business plan' no?

sadly, this is certainly not the first time its happened, and the perfect example is the opium war. China was always arrogant because she was already a sophisticated powerful kingdom and highly technologically advanced when the west were still having gallic wars.. she never found a need to communicate with what she saw as 'barbarians'. this arrogance became her downfall..

after europeans tried to open trade with china, she declined because of their disrespectful attitude.. neither did she think they were worthwhile trading partners.. china continued her closed door policy while the british were getting port locals addicted to the highly dangerous opium in order to smuggle and secretly trade her goods.. all while china was still turning a blind eye to the outside world, especially because of this insult.. the west continued to improve their technology by gathering what they learned from colonization and goods from china (e.g. printing press, compass, guns that the west improved upon, eventually sold back to china), until finally china lost pace and relevancy..

its also ironic that silks, the most fashionable item at the time, was manufactured by the chinese but instead the west dominates fashion..

of course things aren't going to turn out the same way but certainly, trying to turn china into a western style just for money is going to be detrimental to her culture and the worlds. there are ethical issues at hand, even though its nice to think, lets just make some money so I can buy my aston martin..

 

[Pinky*]

agreed jenn, China will not be able to support those ultra cheap wages/production costs in the near future..

to draw from the other thread, "chinese styles", I think it can be possible if china doesn't improve their social security net.. if the poorer indeed become even worse off, there will be no problem keeping wages down.. I think the way western economists perceive what will happen is not always correct because they don't take into account the fact that china's mindset is totally different.. not just the laws of economics need to be observed..

it reminds me, I was talking to a cafe regular who is a prof and when we mentioned china, he said "these are the most dangerous times in the history of the world" because of all the social disparity around the world, east and west.. and some article that backs up his story said its possible in our lifetimes for half the people of the planet to die

our economic actions and attitudes now, whether its the fashion industry or not, can have a severe impact in our near futures.. so we need to be a lot more considerate rather than naive also, its even more important to know about the world and become more politically correct and savvy in the current world climate... its our responsibility, dont you think?

 

[Lena]

absolutely, there are serious ethical issues at hand

i hope this time around, it doesnt turn out as with 'the opium war' my dear Pinky
but still.. lets remember that respect for one's cultural heritage, is always in the hands of the people

*if the west is attacking, china will certainly need to raise the wages so people be able to afford the lux 'imports' which comically enough will have a 'made in China' label
on the other hand, China faces big issues with shipping the goods and over pollution, these are huge issues for the developement of the Chinese Market, in and outside China

 

[Pinky*]

definately agree.. kind of reminds me of galliano and dior.. all this talk about preserving the heritage of the house, but definately dior needed to let go of some things to break into new ground.. but now he's beginning to 'pay his respects' to dior's history more and more in his collections.

and you're so right about the pollution etc.. cleaning up after themselves is going to cost them more and more eventually.. just a few days ago some factory spilled a ton of benzine into a river..

considering what you said and contrary to what i mentioned earlier, china probably will have to raise wages for the working class eventually in order to equalize the field between them and the west.. i wonder though, since it'll still be a while before the chinese working class can afford these goods, its possible logo-mania will become the mark of the lower class instead..?

 

[Lena]

update on western luxe attack on China

Look out New York. Watch your back Tokyo.

This booming metropolis — and preeminent gateway to fast-growing China — has become the hottest international retail capital as fashion and luxury goods players build massive, glittering flagships here at a staggering pace.

A major Chanel boutique opens in the Prince's Building today, followed by another by Louis Vuitton — with Marc Jacobs hosting the festivities — on Thursday at the Landmark. Meanwhile, Gucci, Chloè, Jean Paul Gaultier and Miu Miu are other European brands plotting significant openings here in 2006, while Dior, Tod's and Ferragamo are among firms unveiling larger locations next year.

Brands increasingly view Hong Kong as a key communications platform, too, and are upping investments. To wit: Prada plans to restage its hit spring 2006 fashion show here early next year and Giorgio Armani plans to do an encore showing of his Privè collection after Paris couture week in January for a select group of Hong Kong clients on March 30.

"For a major brand, outside their primary market, Hong Kong should be their No. 1 choice [for a flagship]," said Bonnie Brooks, president of fast-growing Lane Crawford Joyce Group. "The customer is as international now as any major city in the world."

"Hong Kong now, it's like New York. It's at the top level of capitals," agreed Sidney Toledano, president of Dior, which operates nine boutiques in Hong Kong and will unveil next year an expanded 11,000-square-foot flagship on Peking Road, complete with Hong Kong's first Dior Homme boutique. "It's always been about high energy," he said of the city. "It's just a matter of finding the space."

Never mind prime retail rents that now rival stretches of Madison Avenue, ranging from $560 up to $1,200 per square foot, converted from Hong Kong dollars at current exchange. Investments here in the architecture and design of new outlets are at the same level as any flagship in Paris, Milan, Tokyo or London.

Fast-growing Chloè, for example, which has a single London flagship, will soon have a pair in Hong Kong: a two-floor unit in the Mandarin Oriental opens in August, while its original location at Pacific Place will double in size in October. Both will be christened with a large-scale event in the fall, and the brand is eyeing the city's Kowloon side in China for still another boutique at a later date.
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extracts from long article from wwd of today

 

[faust]

/\ Thanks, Lena.

I see a BIG business opportunity here for a LeForm, Atelier, Lift Etage type of a store in two-three years. As more and more Chinese millionaires are produced, they will soon start thinking of how to differentiate themselves. They will naturally turn to "art," which is also booming in China and thus will enrich the "artists," as every countriy's Bourgeoisie has done in the history of the world. The artists will need expensive but more rebellious clothes and that's where the Carpe Diem, CCP, Number Nine, Undercover, etc. come in. Thank me later

 

[jennifer716]

^^ Lena, i'm from hk and i'm interested in reading the article. can you post the url or pm me the article?? thanks