Men's Denim

[AlexN]

Totally agree. In fact you pay for destruction sometimes with designer jeans. Thinking of the weathered helmut lang from a couple seasons back with all the fraying at knees, seat etc which would be through after a month of wear. No, the quality of the denim is pretty much the same between low and high end jeans. Dior jeans, especially from Luster, have some very complex treatments which anyone would notice, but are they worth it considering you can pick up 4 pair of apc for the same price or wranglers to take you to the grave?

I totally disagree. Maybe it's just me, but I've never seen lower/middle-end jeans with the same denim quality as Helmut, DH, etc. And the washes/destruction run the gamit of appallingly bad to very cool. They're not all the same. And yes, I'd much rather have a couple pairs of really amazing jeans than a whole bunch of mediocre ones.

It's interesting how much people differ on this subject.

 

[disstop]

I totally disagree. Maybe it's just me, but I've never seen lower/middle-end jeans with the same denim quality as Helmut, DH, etc. And the washes/destruction run the gamit of appallingly bad to very cool. They're not all the same. And yes, I'd much rather have a couple pairs of really amazing jeans than a whole bunch of mediocre ones.

It's interesting how much people differ on this subject.

I didn't make myself clear. Not talking about appeal, but about quality, which I think was KLM's original point. I agree with everything you say, Alex. Never tried wranglers, and dislike cheap jeans generally for the reasons you mention, wash and cut. Gladly pay over a hundred (and generally do) for a nicely designed pair of jeans. Even have owned the helmut langs I referred to with fraying etc, which I liked. I've also owned dior jeans (still own a pair) but ended up selling them because couldn't justify the cost of hanging on to them.

 

[AlexN]

Oh, okay. Well I still think the quality is noticeably better. Looking at Wrangler's plain denim compared to Helmut Lang's plain denim, I see a big difference, appeal aside. Maybe things have changed, though. The last time I saw a pair of Wrangler jeans was like four years ago.

 

[disstop]

I totally disagree. Maybe it's just me, but I've never seen lower/middle-end jeans with the same denim quality as Helmut, DH, etc. And the washes/destruction run the gamit of appallingly bad to very cool. They're not all the same. And yes, I'd much rather have a couple pairs of really amazing jeans than a whole bunch of mediocre ones.

It's interesting how much people differ on this subject.

Alex, I missed what you said about quality. When you say low end jeans are poorer quality than high end are you talking durability or aesthetic quality? Obviously higher end jeans have much better aesthetics but in my experience, cheap pairs last very well. I still have jeans I got at the gap 10 years ago for 50 bucks and wore tons. They're still in great shape. Same recollection from my levis days. I'd never wear either brand now, but the denim stood up on them. It's what denim's supposed to do I thought, hence cowboy pants in dem old days.

 

[AlexN]

I'm talking durabilty, but yes, of course aesthetic quality as well. In my experiences, the denim is of a thicker and more durable quality, and the stitching is much thicker and more durable, as well. Then there are the differences even among "designer" stuff... The pairs of Diesel and D&G jeans I've had were very thin denim that could fray and get holes pretty easily, and the stitching has been very thin and frayed or popped. I had a D&G denim jacket with a suede patch like on the back of a pair of jeans. When I washed it (the tag said it could be machine washed and dried), holes formed around the patch. And the thread D&G often uses is NOT denim thread. It's so thin and frail.

Anyhow, as an obvious example for anyone interested in comparisons, just compare the denim on a pair of Diesel jeans to the denim on a pair of Helmut Lang jeans. Far thicker, softer, more lustrous, etc. Or, even easier, go to a fabric store and compare the denims they have available. Not at denim is created equal.

 

[Arturo21]

Thats defintely true.

Well, the soft, flimsy jeans I paid $143 for ripped TWICE right under the crotch (and they weren't tight either) and are about to rip at the knees since the fabric is so thin are ultra-high quality, amazing denim. The fit is lousy. So sorry, but I'd say the quality is very low, as AlexN said, flimsy threads.

When I say low quality, I mean the fit and quality are not good for the PRICE, at all.

 

[AlexN]

Yeah, the threads ripped out of the crotch of my D&G jeans...which are trash anyway, so I don't care.

 

[raijin]

Well I've had some of those exact same problems with DH jeans too.

And really, the thin-ness of the fabric shouldn't really be seen as being cheap (its what thickness the designer wants), unless as Alex point out, its tears easily or is done just cut costs.

 

[Arturo21]

^duh

 

[AlexN]

And really, the thin-ness of the fabric shouldn't really be seen as being cheap (its what thickness the designer wants), unless as Alex point out, its tears easily or is done just cut costs.

Oh yeah, definitely. I have nothing against thinness when done well and purposefully. The examples I'm giving have to do with effects of cost-cutting and all that.

 

[raijin]

^duh

Well so many people were complaining about the thinness of jeans they had bought in this thread.

 

[Arturo21]

Yes, but that's what everyone was saying all along...everybody complained about how the jeans tear easily, that's what we meant by 'cheap' quality.

 

[kLm]

I didn't make myself clear. Not talking about appeal, but about quality, which I think was KLM's original point.

Yeah, that was my point, you put it quite succinctly. Anyway, I can't deal with the level of self-delusion on display in this thread, so I'm bowing out of this discussion.

 

[ChadR]

QUESTION: can someone please tell me what's up with the A.P.C. raw demin? I ordered a pair in the same 'tight fit' style in the same size as fits me in that style, but they're very baggy. I have heard that you're supposed to wash them and throw them in the dryer so they shrink down to the proper size. Can anyone confirm this? It occurs to me that maybe they are supposed to fit a little looser through the hip and leg given the stiffness of the fabric. Any enlightenment?

You need to go down a few sizes (2/3). Don't wash them, and especially DO NOT throw them in the dryer! You will get crease marks. With unwashed, you want to wear them for as long as possible without washing them, then wash them however it says to on the directions, hang dry, and repeat. That way you will get maxamised fading and wiskering (naturally, which I think is amazing). If you have to, you can soak them in cold water before you wear them to make them alittle smaller, but it's best to size correctly at first, maybe even too tight (they'll stretch a good bit). www.superfuture.com go to super talk, theirs a huge thread on APC denim that will tell you everthing you need to know.

 

[AlexN]

Yeah, that was my point, you put it quite succinctly. Anyway, I can't deal with the level of self-delusion on display in this thread, so I'm bowing out of this discussion.

If someone sees something differently than you, it means they're having a delusion?

 

[nqth]

I don't have designer's jeans, I wear mostly Levis and (old) Diesel. I think Levis had better denim than most brands, Wranglers, Lee... at least at the time I bought them. The fabric is thick but soft and the fading is quite nice. Actually Diesel has the nicest fabric of them all. They used to sell jeans with special fabric when all other brands offered "classic, traditional" and boring stuffs. The styles are horrible lately, tho, so I just keep wearing my old Diesels, where the details are quiet enough.

I think Levis official here said some years ago that they used different type of fabric in the US, thinner, less strong and "cheaper". Levis 501 here in Poland used to cost 70-80 usd, and they just didn't sell:-) The price went down lately and there are new styles. Not very interesting tho, too much styling, nothing special in cut or fabric.

Nothing else is on sale here. There are some horrible replay. I was suprised to see a few pairs of Evisu, tho.

 

[Arturo21]

I don't see how anyone here is lying to oneself. Ofcourse, some people just enjoy contradicting everybody to make others feel the fool and then repeat exactly what they said previously. That has to stop.

This thread is about denim. So let's not reply to this post and start a petty little fight, that would definately be a shame.

Disstop - You can return, you've made great points and it would be a shame that you leave this good discussion. I've learned quite a bit about denim from this.

Let's talk DENIM.

AlexN - where could I go to actually see the denim cloth without the leg-fitting shape and the label. Thx.

 

[AlexN]

Any fabric store that carries denim, I suppose.

 

[Arturo21]

I don't have designer's jeans, I wear mostly Levis and (old) Diesel. I think Levis had better denim than most brands, Wranglers, Lee... at least at the time I bought them. The fabric is thick but soft and the fading is quite nice. Actually Diesel has the nicest fabric of them all. They used to sell jeans with special fabric when all other brands offered "classic, traditional" and boring stuffs. The styles are horrible lately, tho, so I just keep wearing my old Diesels, where the details are quiet enough.

I think Levis official here said some years ago that they used different type of fabric in the US, thinner, less strong and "cheaper". Levis 501 here in Poland used to cost 70-80 usd, and they just didn't sell:-) The price went down lately and there are new styles. Not very interesting tho, too much styling, nothing special in cut or fabric.

Nothing else is on sale here. There are some horrible replay. I was suprised to see a few pairs of Evisu, tho.

Maybe Diesel sells different jeans in different countries. I bought my Colombian-made pair of Diesel jeans in Venezuela (And no, I didn't want them , bought them because they were the best thing that was available and I desperately needed a pair of jeans at the moment ..what a waste). It's so flimsy, my Levi's 529s are much better and stronger...although still really bad shape and quality..although Diesel's fit is better than Levis' fit.

 

[raijin]

There are some Levi's that actually fit slimmer than DH jeans and hold up pretty well.
They do have some pretty high quality lines.