Proenza Schouler F/W 2023.24 New York

[LadyJunon]

20 years, no identity…
Congrats to them for still being active….
I remember the time when they were Gucci by Tom Ford and then Balenciaga by Nicolas Ghesquiere…
It’s almost a miracle that they are still on the Philo bandwagon…I guess copying Nicolas these days is less easy.

They shifted almost immediately after Nicolas left Balenciaga. Their FW'13 collection was in a completely different language than their SS'13. Not to mention that after his first 4 years at Louis Vuitton, the runway and store collections split, with the runway collection going completely of the rails into full-on experimentation: great for Nicolas, miserable for a, both creatively and financially, struggling business like Proenza.

 

[jeanclaude]

It´s a miracle they haven´t tried the VETEMENTS way yet...let´s knock on wood, just in case!

 

[Deleted member 7575]

There are some good wardrobe pieces here, yes, but there is no vision, no story besides "New York cool" –where even in that construct, they fail to provide a unique perspective of what New York cool even is.

The best piece is the shearling moto, which is almost a 1:1 dupe of Balenciaga Fall 2004. It's deeply ironic that Ghesquiere's NYC collections actually did provide a unique, and perhaps definitive, template of NYC cool from a Frenchman.

The part that absolutely takes me out is that the downtown duo are now just stealing set designs from Phoebe Philo. Their runway design with the models lined up in shadows behind a scrim directly pillages the Céline's Fall 2017 runway.

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Source: YouTube

And she copied it from Isaac Mizrahi.

 

[GivenchyAddict]

At this point I don’t care who copied who because they all copied and given the state of fashion, what else to expect ?

I love Phoebe and I was always aware of her copying - same with JWA. At least these two copy and make it their own, give us a strong identity and a new interpretation of what they copied.

These two men, however, is just Celine lite or Celine for kindergarten and that’s what annoys me the most. I have to say my issue with Proenza is the same for every American brand except Ralph Lauren, Michael Kors, Anna Sui, Marc Jacobs and Tom Ford.

Most of them are just copycats of European designers or just borderline performative brands (*cough* Kerby, *cough* Eckhaus Latta, *cough*Area).

 

[Deleted member 7575]

"Copying is ok when Phoebe does it."

WHAT EVER

 

[RedSmokeRise]

I also think it's actually a very solid collection lol.

 

[perhydrol]

I feel incredibly conflicted about this collection. It is extremely referential in the most blatant way and there is no identity, but somehow it feels relatable because of how down-to-earth it is. Weirdly, it's not overloaded with their usual artsy-fartsy approach and that may be the readon why it is so strong, especially when it comes to the outerwear.

 

[StylishCynic]

"Copying is ok when Phoebe does it."

WHAT EVER

Mizrahi had a totally sheer scrim. Phoebe may have been inspired by Mizrahi, but at least changed it up by making it fully opaque and presenting the queued-up models in larger silhouettes. J&L copied her without even trying to add their own riff to it.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Mizrahi had a totally sheer scrim. Phoebe may have been inspired by Mizrahi, but at least changed it up by making it fully opaque and presenting the queued-up models in larger silhouettes. J&L copied her without even trying to add their own riff to it.

Oh excuse me, a totally sheer scrim is SOOOOOOOO different. My mistake.

 

[StylishCynic]

Oh excuse me, a totally sheer scrim is SOOOOOOOO different. My mistake.

Yes, it actually is different. You’re excused!

I was making the point that even if Phoebe was inspired, she still added her own touch to the element, which Jack and Lazaro failed to do in their copy-paste.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

spotted


YouTube.com

 

[THD96]

At this point I don’t care who copied who because they all copied and given the state of fashion, what else to expect ?

I love Phoebe and I was always aware of her copying - same with JWA. At least these two copy and make it their own, give us a strong identity and a new interpretation of what they copied.

These two men, however, is just Celine lite or Celine for kindergarten and that’s what annoys me the most. I have to say my issue with Proenza is the same for every American brand except Ralph Lauren, Michael Kors, Anna Sui, Marc Jacobs and Tom Ford.

Most of them are just copycats of European designers or just borderline performative brands (*cough* Kerby, *cough* Eckhaus Latta, *cough*Area).

Exactly, it's not what you do, but how you do it.

The worst thing is that they existed when Phoebe is still at Chloé. So technically they can do this aesthetic first before Phoebe's Céline exploded, but no they're too busy chasing what was hot around that time (Nicolas Balenciaga).

Phoebe copied but she has her look, same with JWA or even Miuccia.
What's this duo look like? Their signature has always been a safer rendition of other designers because the original take all the risk. 20 years in yet they still don't have a single look that they can call their own.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Yes, it actually is different. You’re excused!

I was making the point that even if Phoebe was inspired, she still added her own touch to the element, which Jack and Lazaro failed to do in their copy-paste.

 

[LadyJunon]

And she copied it from Isaac Mizrahi.

View attachment 1225618

At this point I don’t care who copied who because they all copied and given the state of fashion, what else to expect ?

I love Phoebe and I was always aware of her copying - same with JWA. At least these two copy and make it their own, give us a strong identity and a new interpretation of what they copied.

These two men, however, is just Celine lite or Celine for kindergarten and that’s what annoys me the most. I have to say my issue with Proenza is the same for every American brand except Ralph Lauren, Michael Kors, Anna Sui, Marc Jacobs and Tom Ford.

Most of them are just copycats of European designers or just borderline performative brands (*cough* Kerby, *cough* Eckhaus Latta, *cough*Area).

"Copying is ok when Phoebe does it."

WHAT EVER

The main difference between Philo copying Mizahri and Proenza copying Philo is that Philo reclaimed and restructured those elements to create her own identity as a designer, while Proenza simply copies a popular aesthetic. I would've tried to defend them in the past, but that FW'13 show says everything about their modus-operandi. It's very sad actually.

spotted

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YouTube.com

Is that you?

 

[susseinmcswanny]

Is that you?

Lol no it’s Anna from the red scare podcast

 

[Phuel]

I understand the instant dismissal for these two since theirs has always been a more accessible Phoebe’s Celine than anything else. Maybe it’s a similar way I see that Phoebe’s Celine was always a more accessible, women-friendly Helmut Lang:shrugs:

As a commercial offering, this is very solid: The ponyskin and shearling lined leathers (very Helmut) are to die for. For women of a certain age, a certain status, and who doesn’t care about, nor have the time for fashion that they will call out the Phoebe’s Celine “inspiration”— and maybe more importantly, doesn’t care to look like clowns/toddlers/cartoons, it’s a great offering of modern staples. This label is still around likely because there are enough high-level professional creatives who’s got more important things on their mind than just whose fashion is ripping off whose fashions. It's really not that deep LOL