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Discussion in 'Designers and Collections' started by Ruito, Dec 21, 2018.
Raf's out of CALVIN KLEIN!
I wasn´t expecting to happen so fast. Not a chance for Simons to try again at revamping Calvin Klein.
I wonder who will be his replacement. And I wonder if Raf will keep looking to work for other brands; or if he just will focus on its own brand (which I think it could be the best right now)...
It would be nice having Narciso Rodriguez back at CK, a return to his roots...but I know that´s surely not gonna happen, as he likes being on his own.
Wow! They aren’t playing right there...
Eight months before the end of his contract! That means everything...
Are they going to produce the Prefall collection? What’s going to happen to the line?
I bet this small stint at Calvin will become iconic! Cynical me can buy clothes to sell them
The question now is what’s next for Raf? Because this will have a lot of impact for any big conglomerate who might be interested in him.
The people of Helmut Lang should call him or his should concentrate on his menswear.
I’m sad for him but this kind of things doesn’t happen when you are aware of your market and the brand you’re working for.
Brands are bigger than designers but only a few of those really makes an impact and can be in the top league. Unfortunately, he is not one of them...
Not surprised one bit by his exit. He was never a good fit for CK.
It's like he had no respect for the brand DNA.
He definitely never understood the American market.
America filtered through the aesthetic of Raf Simons was just corny.
Raf is at his best when he's designing for Raf, and I really hope he concentrates on his own brand. These mega brands and the men who own them, are not a good fit for him.
I feel sorry for whoever's next in line. CK seems to a mess right now, the suits only talking about quick sales, Instagram and GenZ... What a toxic environment and mindset to have in a fahion brand. Glad Raf got out fast, best to stay in the namesake brand for the time being.
Can you imagine this type of pressure?? I mean they will not even let him try one last time! So, that article wasn't not a warning, but a preparation for what was about to come...
Well, I hope all this become a lesson to everybody.
He didn't understand the legacy behind Calvin Klein the brand. He thought he was still in Europe, lol.
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm curious who will land at CK next.
Merry Christmas!!!!! Haha, no, seriously: Felipe Oliveira Baptista will be interesting in CK
Judging by the article from FashionNetwork ( you can read it on the Raf for CK thread), that one last time would have been worse actually.
When you are investing on a Star designer (big salary, demands, additional staff...etc), you expect big sales. Critical success is good but you have to be pragmatic as a designer and sell.
Why do you think that LVMH is still supporting Hedi and actually went to court him when Phoebe decided to leave? Because they know the guy can sell. He was criticized at YSL but it sold.
The same for Nicolas. His collections for Vuitton might not be that according to critics but he can sell. Each season, you have an element of his runway show that become a staple for Vuitton’s accessories department.
Being a star designer means being pragmatic. This is PVH, not Kering, Richemont or LVMH. You can see through their portfolio...
Karl Lagerfeld and Tommy Hilfiger are owned by them. Karl is a very pragmatic designer. He let his assistants do the job, handle the marketing just by being himself, design a small collection of dresses, get his royalties and goes to the Christmas dinner in Amsterdam each year.
Calvin invented the modern idea of « sex sells ». You can’t come and scream Andy Warhol and things like that! Raf’s Calvin could have been great if he understood the sex appeal of the brand.
Nobody wants to look « intellectual ». It’s almost a caricature!
While I feel his last runway show to be horrid, it wasn’t so bad over all. They could have waited until the end of the contract.
I saw in another thread that another big problem was that their Calvin Klein Jeans reboot didn’t go well. I personally think they should have kept to their plan of eliminating all diffusion lines as a whole. I don’t know anyone who would proudly wear any of the CKJ line’s logos. I don’t know how involved, if at all, Raf was with any of this...but I feel like he is the scapegoat for their current issues.
An odd combo since the beginning. When I saw the Kardashians ad I said 'that's it, this is a joke, he's not taken seriously'.
nah we don't need him putting his 'mark' on HL. it's been through enough.
In retrospect, his last runway show was actually worse than bad.
When as a designer, you know the clothes are not selling, that there is not a connection with a clientele and that your bosses are fed up with you, you don’t put scuba suits and complicated dresses on the runway. Who are those for?
Nicolas Ghesquiere had the same issue when Dom & Tom left. Look at the collections he delivered for 2005: commercial, desirable, straight to the point.
IMO they should have merge all the lines under one umbrella: Calvin Klein, and have the CK205...etc. Next to it.
Raf actually added another line to the equation... his 1978 jeans thing. A mess.
I really don’t see who can take Calvin. Maybe a profile similar to Bailey...
I would have said Mathieu Blazy but he is attached to Raf.
Maybe an American designer would be better for the job. I like Kerby of Pyer Moss. I guess Anna is already playing games to push a favorite...
hands up the ones who are surprised!
yeah, me neither.
finally someone slaps on his wannabe face.
I knew it would happen eventually. Oh well, good luck with the next brand Raf!
I mean really... Does anyone actually want to look like this? Will an ad like this make someone jump up and down for Calvin Klein?
The Guccification of Calvin Klein was the kiss of death. It was one of the last brands that still thrived on Sex Appeal. They had an audience and Raf's contribution alienated them.
CK Collection was sophisticated and chic. It was crisp and strong. He made it frumpy and weird. It works for Gucci because it's experimental and glamorous at the same time. He had no idea of who buys Calvin Klein and he didn't care one bit. He had it coming and rightfully so!
His fate was sealed when even the menswear wasn't being sought after by the crazys who follow his own line. I entered a Calvin Klein store for the first time during his tenure a week ago and was astounded by how undesirable everything was, plastic bags, ugly converse-y sneakers, 15 different CK logos and pretentious color-block denim shirts straight out of a 1975 JC Penney's catalogue...
He was on top when he was dressing rail thin teenagers in cool blazers, skinny jeans and artsy accesories. Blasting electronic music in some equally nihilistic location. It was only logical that by the time he became middle aged he would be pasting Warhol stickers on mom jeans.
The best he ever did at Dior was playing Aphex Twin at his debut show but he really outdid himself at Calvin.
I'm somewhat intrigued over how this played out. And that nobody in this thread seem really shocked. I think all of us already understood the dangerous situation he had been in when we read those articles about a week ago. I'm going to specululate that the Fashion Network team obviously knew that the announcement would follow shortly, and their 'insider' in that article is sitting firmly on the side of the suits. There's no way that Raf comes off in a flattering light at all.
Somehow I do believe that his ex may have played a huge part in his downfall at both Dior and CK. Like it was said when his appointment was announced, how do someone complain about pressure at Dior, yet takes on a greater form of it at CK. He may have been dickmatized enough think that he could make a greater creative imprint, and with more autonomy, at CK. And throughout process nobody thought about how profitable or receptive it will be. I recall an interviewer asking him something during his early days at Dior, something in the vein of what the most rewarding aspect of the job was. And amongst other factors, he mentioned that it meant he could be closer to the South of France, where his then bf/husband's family lived. I thought that response very interesting, even at the time.
Anyway, I think he capitulated, which was wise, imo. And they may even have let him go without a non-compete agreement, but definitely with a non-disclosure. This time around he shouldn't think of his next move, or next job. Keep away from Helmut Lang, Jesus. Stay put at his namesake label. Not only for the dust to settle, but also for himself to regroup and think how he got himself into this mess, and what he learned from it. Just like Alber is doing right now. His own label is the perfect structure wgere he should be right now. Small, creatively polarising for his mark to remain in the industry, maybe not so concerned with suits and profits and losses and all that.
As for Calvin Klein? How strategic to announce the departure right after holiday shopping and before the new year would start. Perfect breeding ground for 'new year, new changes' type marketing kool-aid.
Upcoming collection will probably be designed by the inhouse team. I do think CK will change everything within their capacity. Campaign images and the like.
I also think the ground may be ripe for a new designer. They'll be extra cautious over who they'll hire next. Whoever it will be will err far more on the house codes than anything else. There will be intense moderation and approval of the collections before we see them.
It's in a way a dark day for creatives jumping in bed with corporations because if Raf didn't muck it up and if his direction actually sold, this sort of partnership could've set a tone for more companies to ease up on creative control. But I think the suits, not just at CK, will only because more aggressive and transparent with their demands going forward.
And....... I've subconsciously underscored Riccardo Tisci's name in red.
it's the perfect ending to his exploration of what america is