The consequences of affordable collections

[Hanne]

Isn't it really a matter of cultivating future customers ?

Giving those with shallow pockets, who haven't reached their earning potential yet, a taste for coveted item albeit on an 'entry level' ?

I don't think the buyers of say X for H&M, Target, Uniqlo etc expects the quality to match that of the designers own label.

Imo these collections are the first stepping stone in the pursuit of the closet of designer wears that many desire. It allows 'participation', without alluding to be equal.

 

[ultramarine]

This is the problem for me ... I *am* a snotty snob who's worst nightmare is to bump into someone who own a piece of clothing which I own -not necessarily both wearing it at once- ... I mean .. thats a heart attack for me on the spot ... if you buy something from Target and go to -high- school with it what are the odds of bumping into someone wearing the same thing? Do the math ...

Dont get me wrong ... I ADORE Target as a concept and the democratization of design ...-theres a quote by Starck which is amazing but cant quite remember-.
But for the rest .. not me.

Another thing its that Im obsessed with quality ... theres no way Ill invest on a piece if its poorly done ... even though I totally crave it.

 

[fashionista-ta]

m-w.com

well......
if you knew me and my origins, you would know that , in no sense in which the word is used here , could i be considered elite.
the thing is, for me at least. there is no such thing as an elite

Do royalty live longer than thier subjects?
If the servant eating the crumb off the masters table becomes sick , Is the master by virtue of his position immune to the sickness?.
Do people in the upper echelons ( dont know about the spelling, as im not elite)of society speak words constructed from a different alphabet than the commoners


I know you were just pocking fun at me in your quote, but im glad you did as that was supposed to be larger post that i never finished.

I wasn't poking fun at you, I was serious

Main Entry: elite
Pronunciation: A-'lEt, i-, E-
Function: noun
Etymology: French élite, from Old French eslite, from feminine of eslit, past participle of eslire to choose, from Latin eligere
1 a singular or plural in construction : the choice part : [SIZE=-1]CREAM[/SIZE] <the elite of the entertainment world> b singular or plural in construction : the best of a class <superachievers who dominate the computer elite -- Marilyn Chase> c singular or plural in construction : the socially superior part of society <how the elite live -- A P World> <how the French-speaking elite...was changing -- Economist> d : a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence <members of the ruling elite> <the intellectual elites of the country> e : a member of such an elite -- usually used in plural <the elites..., pursuing their studies in Europe -- Robert Wernick>
2 : a typewriter type providing 12 characters to the linear inch

There are many elites, but I'm using sense 1a or b above ... I would say, for instance, that your being talented makes you part of an elite ... being knowledgeable about fashion makes you part of an elite ...

I also think it's much more advantageous to be elite by virtue of achievement than birth, but maybe that's me

 

[fixoid]

things like http://www.threadless.com/ seem much more intriguing than bribing a bunch of big name designers to wh*re their wears in different concrete cubes.

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

maybe it's just because i live in california (yes, i do love to bash my state) but even with h&m and designer stuff at target, most people i know don't care or know much about it. rather, all my "fashionable" friends never even go to these stores, because the quality is quite cheap, and instead buy actual designer pieces just for the name (esp. chanel bags, lacoste shirts, armani suits).
personally, i think i would rather people buy the cheaper end designer pieces, if they are well designed and if the people wearing them can appreciate them, then having others buy original designer stuff just for the name.

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

Do people in the upper echelons ( dont know about the spelling, as im not elite)of society speak words constructed from a different alphabet than the commoners

elites don't, but elitists do
i don't think a person can decide over whether or not he or she is elite. it's just another characteristic, like smart, tall, short, beautiful, funny, serious, boring, dirty, and etc
being elitist on the other hand, is to rub the fact that you are elite into everyone's faces.

 

[zamb]

elites don't, but elitists do
i don't think a person can decide over whether or not he or she is elite. it's just another characteristic, like smart, tall, short, beautiful, funny, serious, boring, dirty, and etc
being elitist on the other hand, is to rub the fact that you are elite into everyone's faces.

well i get your point but i dont agree with it.
i think in some cases you can decide, if being elite is by accomplishments, i can decide (or at least heighten the possibility) of what i accomplish. i believe that anyne who becomes an elite (or is blessed eith the innate gifts that makes one so) diminishes this status by being an elitist.
once you begin to think that you are some kind of divinity by virtue if being superior in one or another area of your life, you have forfeited your status.
such kinds of behavior are the lowest of the human kind.
I believe we are given gifts and abilities to beautify and enrich the life of others ( i dont make any money from designing collections, one of the things that cause me to continue is that i could not live with myself to know that God has blessed me with such a great talent, and i did nothing with it. It brings me a certain sense of fulfilment to know that i can do something that makes others happy and feel good about themselves)
once an individual begins to believe that their gifts and stature makes them above other human beings. they have enterd a sad state of human thinking.........

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

well i get your point but i dont agree with it.
i think in some cases you can decide, if being elite is by accomplishments, i can decide (or at least heighten the possibility) of what i accomplish. i believe that anyne who becomes an elite (or is blessed eith the innate gifts that makes one so) diminishes this status by being an elitist.
once you begin to think that you are some kind of divinity by virtue if being superior in one or another area of your life, you have forfeited your status.
such kinds of behavior are the lowest of the human kind.
I believe we are given gifts and abilities to beautify and enrich the life of others ( i dont make any money from designing collections, one of the things that cause me to continue is that i could not live with myself to know that God has blessed me with such a great talent, and i did nothing with it. It brings me a certain sense of fulfilment to know that i can do something that makes others happy and feel good about themselves)
once an individual begins to believe that their gifts and stature makes them above other human beings. they have enterd a sad state of human thinking.........

i highly respect your actions and behaviors, but sadly not everyone is like you
i think perception-wise, you're right. once a person who is elite becomes an elitest, their image is no longer as elite. it's sad though, because i know some very very elite ppl who are very elitest. it's hard to put a judgement on them, because they have undeniable skill, but their actions are quite low

back to democratic design: it scares me because once designers get involved in the lower-end market, their work is no longer about aesthetic value, but of marketable value
i guess it might not be that big of an issue, as in order to retain their "high fashion" status they still have to produce good things, but their time and attention is compromised. i hate to hit on stella b/c i usually like her, but if you look at the collection that followed her collection for h&m, it wasn't nearly as good as the collection before that. reviewers frequently blamed her h&m collection, saying it compromised her rtw collection. but then again her most recent collection IMO was even more disappointing, so she could just be getting worse, or it might be because of the baby

 

[zamb]

i highly respect your actions and behaviors, but sadly not everyone is like you
i think perception-wise, you're right. once a person who is elite becomes an elitest, their image is no longer as elite. it's sad though, because i know some very very elite ppl who are very elitest. it's hard to put a judgement on them, because they have undeniable skill, but their actions are quite low

back to democratic design: it scares me because once designers get involved in the lower-end market, their work is no longer about aesthetic value, but of marketable value
i guess it might not be that big of an issue, as in order to retain their "high fashion" status they still have to produce good things, but their time and attention is compromised. i hate to hit on stella b/c i usually like her, but if you look at the collection that followed her collection for h&m, it wasn't nearly as good as the collection before that. reviewers frequently blamed her h&m collection, saying it compromised her rtw collection. but then again her most recent collection IMO was even more disappointing, so she could just be getting worse, or it might be because of the baby

Well, since she left Chloe and started her own line , i havent paid much attention to her work, so it would be unfair of me to critique what she has been doing.
but i can understand what you are saying.
however, every designer goes thruogh rough patches, and this just might be hers.

 

[Miss Dalloway]

I am all for it just we know that the quality is not good!

 

[fashionista-ta]

i highly respect your actions and behaviors, but sadly not everyone is like you
i think perception-wise, you're right. once a person who is elite becomes an elitest, their image is no longer as elite. it's sad though, because i know some very very elite ppl who are very elitest. it's hard to put a judgement on them, because they have undeniable skill, but their actions are quite low

back to democratic design: it scares me because once designers get involved in the lower-end market, their work is no longer about aesthetic value, but of marketable value
i guess it might not be that big of an issue, as in order to retain their "high fashion" status they still have to produce good things, but their time and attention is compromised. i hate to hit on stella b/c i usually like her, but if you look at the collection that followed her collection for h&m, it wasn't nearly as good as the collection before that. reviewers frequently blamed her h&m collection, saying it compromised her rtw collection.

Two thoughts ... all her H&M collection was, was like a greatest hits record ... so how could it "compromise" her regular collection?

but then again her most recent collection IMO was even more disappointing, so she could just be getting worse, or it might be because of the baby

Would anyone ever say this of a creative person who was male?

 

[BaroqueRockstar]

style.com's review of stella mccarney's fall 06 collection:

PARIS, March 2, 2006 – Stella McCartney has had a lot on her plate this past year. New baby, a smash-hit gig for H&M, and a line of attention-grabbing activewear for Adidas. Well done for all that—but has she had enough in reserve to concentrate on her own brand?

to fashionista-ta: i thought her h&m collection was decent, but her fall 06 collection was lacking. maybe my expectations were a little too high, b/c i really liked her two previous collections
as for the baby comment, of course no one says that male designers. we can pretend that our society has moved on from previous gender roles, but unfortunately we haven't. from my experience, having a baby can affect both men's work and women's work.

 

[zamb]

In what way does having a baby affects mens work, that is comparable to the way it affects a woman

 

[DJCNOR]

I agree with Hanne. This is only going to work well if there is a good match between the name designer's characteristic look and that of the high street store. Is that particular store THE high street store where someone who wishes they could afford THAT designer shops? Wouldn't a thread in which we proposed matches between the high street and designers be interesting? Who would be the name designer for East? or, dare I even suggest the idea, for Primark?

 

[fashionista-ta]

In what way does having a baby affects mens work, that is comparable to the way it affects a woman

Many new fathers are sleep-deprived, but certainly the impact on their lives physically and emotionally is not as great.

I remember when Ekaterina Gordeeva skated again shortly after giving birth ... everyone was full of praise for what she was doing. Granted, she's a huge talent and driven to what I personally think is probably an unhealthy degree, but I'm a lot more comfortable with people saying Stella is a talentless hack who's where she is only because of her father, than that her work has deteriorated because she has played a part in continuing the human race by giving birth, something no man can do & therefore is never subject to criticism for--even tho last I checked, there are plenty of male designers having "off" seasons too, and not one of them gave birth. If she's so talentless, and her "team" is doing all the work anyway, then how can her work have suffered due to these factors?

 

[zamb]

Many new fathers are sleep-deprived, but certainly the impact on their lives physically and emotionally is not as great.

I remember when Ekaterina Gordeeva skated again shortly after giving birth ... everyone was full of praise for what she was doing. Granted, she's a huge talent and driven to what I personally think is probably an unhealthy degree, but I'm a lot more comfortable with people saying Stella is a talentless hack who's where she is only because of her father, than that her work has deteriorated because she has played a part in continuing the human race by giving birth, something no man can do & therefore is never subject to criticism for--even tho last I checked, there are plenty of male designers having "off" seasons too, and not one of them gave birth. If she's so talentless, and her "team" is doing all the work anyway, then how can her work have suffered due to these factors?

I dont want to call her talentles, as this opens up a completely new discussion that i wont get into. .for me i have to always remember that i am a designer, and i think it is unreasonable to unjustly criticize ones fellow professionals, especially not having superior knowledge regarding thier
roles.

the roles of men and women are different in society, and we all make contributions in different ways, a man can never give birth to a baby, but a woman can never become pregnant without the substance of a man, so we all contribute in different ways.
personally i dont have a problem with her having an "off " season their is no creative person who is so consistenly good that they never make a mistake. Life is not lived at a constant, it ebbs and it flows,
now thAt she has had an "off" season, lets look forward to her being back on track sooner than later.

 

[belletrist]

Did Tarkovski really say that? He must be an idiot then.

What is it to "understand" classical music? To be moved by it? In that case many do. Even the lowliest peasant could appreciate the majesty of a divine mass and be moved by it. Is he then part of the "elite"? Sheesh!

It's like saying "if Jane Eyre could be understood by anyone that doesn't belong to an elite, then it wouldn't have any quality or interest." Really? How about Dumas then. His serialised novels have zero literary quality by this measure - since they were clearly meant for a popular audience. Is this what Tarkovski wants us to believe? Utterly perplexing.

The greater affront lies in his assertion that a work would be devoid of quality or interest if more people understood it - lol! What kind of drivelous nonsense is that?? Surely a work of art, or music, or literature or whatever is what it is by virtue of its own merits. Not because it is generally incomprehensible. This silly conceit is rendered in such breath-taking arrogance by Tarkovski it would be laughable were it not responsible for so much obscurantism in the arts today ("the less understood, the better it must be"). Self-serving nonsense.

Although I agree Tarkovski was arrogant, especially after The Sacrifice, I still think most of he said is true.
I also think "understanding" music is not to be able to have any emotions while listening to it, which, yes, is possible even if you don't know anything about music, BUT this is only the case before the [SIZE=-1]dodecaphonism. I believe that NOBODY who totally ignore what serialism is is able to like this music - [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Schoenberg and more. Maybe Stockhausen, with Sirius, is something easier... Anyway that's not about emotions, that's about understanding.
Today everybody seems to believe that art is all about emotions, but in fact, most of the time, you need to work to appreciate some artists. It's hard to understand how Godard makes his films if you don't know anything about [/SIZE]Dziga Vertov.... But this is off topic

 

[fashionista-ta]

whoa, did an elitist wander in here ... ?

 

[zamb]

^

 

[Alexandra8715]

I think the new democratisation of fashion is a good thing if only to realise that buying an item of "designer" clothing won't make your life glamorous like you hope it would if you could just afford a bit of Gucci or whatever. I pretty much don't approve of any 'elitism' so anything that destroys the illusion of glamour that comes with wearing expensive clothes is fine by me! At least that way those of us who can't afford designer clothes won't live our lives in awe of the elite. Just my opinion...when/if I can ever afford designer, the reason I will be buying it is for design and quality...not as some attempt to join the elite.