The consequences of affordable collections

[Karl.Popper]

How am I rude? I'm not the one saying that if you don't go to Princeton you're getting a fake education . . .

Merely pointing out the irony that IF that is the case, none of you are educated by that argument. Thank you and calm down.

 

[Jadee]

How am I rude? I'm not the one saying that if you don't go to Princeton you're getting a fake education . . .

Merely pointing out the irony that IF that is the case, none of you are educated by that argument. Thank you and calm down.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Karl.Popper again.

Karma is BS anyway . I have to tell you that reading your posts can be like receiving cold water in the face sometimes but man do I love it !

It's a very interesting thread. Keep the good work people and please don't get offended for nothing.

 

[melt977]

How am I rude? I'm not the one saying that if you don't go to Princeton you're getting a fake education . . .

Merely pointing out the irony that IF that is the case, none of you are educated by that argument. Thank you and calm down.

High street fashion is not fake fashion... it's cheaper fashion... if money was not an issue most of us would have gone for the actual designer clothes.... the reason we don't all buy designer is either because we can't afford it or because we don't believe that a specific designer item is worthy its price... so we choose the cheaper version (choose is a key word here).

In terms of the Princeton example you are clearly misinterpreting the argument made by BaroqueRockstar in what seems like an attempt to show how smart you are...and this is why you are rude.

 

[Karl.Popper]

High street fashion is not fake fashion... it's cheaper fashion... if money was not an issue most of us would have gone for the actual designer clothes.... the reason we don't all buy designer is either because we can't afford it or because we don't believe that a specific designer item is worthy its price... so we choose the cheaper version (choose is a key word here).

You're not disagreeing with me here.

In terms of the Princeton example you are clearly misinterpreting the argument made by BaroqueRockstar in what seems like an attempt to show how smart you are...and this is why you are rude.

How am I misinterpreting what he says? And even if I were, since when was misinterpreting anything = rude? Sheesh.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. The point of his analogy clearly is to suggest that his friend, who for want of money is unable to enter Princeton or an equivalent Ivy is therefore deprived of a "true education" - his words - that only the rich can afford.

I merely point out the absurd consequences of this view.

Indeed, you yourself claim that high street fashion is not fake fashion, only cheaper. By the same analogy, isn't non-Ivy league education also not fake education, only cheaper?

Clearly you are disagreeing with BaroqueRockstar's argument, not mine. In that case, please direct your misguided ire elsewhere, thank you.

 

[Karl.Popper]

Karma is BS anyway . I have to tell you that reading your posts can be like receiving cold water in the face sometimes but man do I love it !

It's a very interesting thread. Keep the good work people and please don't get offended for nothing.

I thang yew. It's an uphill task sometimes, trying to be entertaining.

 

[zamb]

to Mr. Karl Popper,
I remember once in my country, there was a polititian who was running for state office, he went into this district to do a campaign speech, after two hours of speeking, and trying to show how eloquent and knowledgable he was, they decided to have a Q&A session. during the Q&A session, an old (illiterate but influential in the community) lady got up and said , Mr. polititian you gave a beautiful speech, and based on the response of the crowd, i assume you know what you are saying, but i did not understand a word you said. after this people began to realize that they themselves did not fully understand exactly what he was offering in his eloquent speech.
he ended up loosing the election because of this.
personally i would rather a simplistic (with even a few mispelled words being pardoned) form of communication in which i clearly understand the point the writer is making , than an elaborate over-eloquent written post which very few people can understand.
after all......... we are having a discussion, and how can we have a discussion if very few can understand the points you are trying to make.
being rude is another thing. I am unsure why you are not rebuked by the MODs, as this is not the first or second time that you have displayed the kind of snobbery and rudeness that you are now displaying.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

You're not disagreeing with me here.



How am I misinterpreting what he says? And even if I were, since when was misinterpreting anything = rude? Sheesh.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. The point of his analogy clearly is to suggest that his friend, who for want of money is unable to enter Princeton or an equivalent Ivy is therefore deprived of a "true education" - his words - that only the rich can afford.

I merely point out the absurd consequences of this view.

Indeed, you yourself claim that high street fashion is not fake fashion, only cheaper. By the same analogy, isn't non-Ivy league education also not fake education, only cheaper?

Clearly you are disagreeing with BaroqueRockstar's argument, not mine. In that case, please direct your misguided ire elsewhere, thank you.

It's all being a bit muddled. My point about mass marketed "fashion" had less to do with high street brands and more with American retailers like Old Navy.

 

[retailqueen]

*claps* Karl.Popper I love you . Well said .


You might come off as a bit 'harsh' but i so agrre with you.

 

[Karl.Popper]

personally i would rather a simplistic (with even a few mispelled words being pardoned) form of communication in which i clearly understand the point the writer is making , than an elaborate over-eloquent written post which very few people can understand.

Where have I been over-elaborate?

As for spelling, is that why you told someone else earlier in the thread:

but please , try to spell the designers names correctly, there are threads on most of them here, so a little research might help if you are unsure of the correct spelling

lol!

after all......... we are having a discussion, and how can we have a discussion if very few can understand the points you are trying to make.

Well, what is it you don't understand?

being rude is another thing. I am unsure why you are not rebuked by the MODs, as this is not the first or second time that you have displayed the kind of snobbery and rudeness that you are now displaying.

What snobbery? The snobbery in saying that "true education" is only to be had at Princeton and its equivalent?

 

[tott]

to Mr. Karl Popper,
I am unsure why you are not rebuked by the MODs, as this is not the first or second time that you have displayed the kind of snobbery and rudeness that you are now displaying.

Well... I have to say that I don't find this discussion or K.P too snobby or rude, to be honest. It all depends on how you interpret things I guess...

I will say that Mr. Popper seems to be a bit "argumentative" sometimes, but is that necessarily a bad things? A little bit of resistance can help us sharpen our intellectual tools, if the points made are valid...

I enjoy reading what both of you contribute with on this topic...

 

[skirted]

Just chiming in: I must say that I very much agree with the point behind post #150, either in relation to education, or cheap vs. fake fashion...

Just to add to the discussion, I came across this fashion blog entry that might be of interest:

...There seems to be no lack of designers willing to collaborate with these lower-end retailers. However, among those who follow fashion, there are deep reservations about these partnerships. The idea seems to be that the designers are “selling out” or otherwise trading their credibility for a few bucks. This argument seems to miss the point. It’s all well and good to be artistic and artistic integrity is a wonderful thing; however, the fashion industry is a business. Those beautiful clothes you see going down the runway and in the magazines cost lots of money to produce. In addition to the personal artistic satisfaction all designers, I’m sure, reap from their work, they also, quite simply, want you to buy their clothes.
Smaller designers have little financial backing and name recognition compared to larger houses. How many people who don’t closely follow fashion know who Giles Deacon and Thakoon Panichgul are? Additionally, bigger name designers like Alexander McQueen and Stella McCartney, for example, whose lines are owned and backed by the Gucci Group, are being told to make their lines profitable, or else risk being shut down or sold - like respected, but not particularly profitable, fashion house Rochas, which was shut down earlier this year by its owner, Procter & Gamble.
Designers partner with lower-end chains for the same reasons they launch fragrances. Do you think Michael Kors or Ralph Lauren have a deep, artistic interest in their various perfumes? I doubt it, but they sell like hotcakes, generating significant revenue, as well as growing the number of people familiar with the brands. I don’t see anyone complaining about Viktor & Rolf’s Flowerbomb

, but I see plenty of people up in arms over the H&M collaboration. I fail to see how trying to make a design business successful - by designing clothes - is a bad thing.
In addition to the benefits for the designers, the collaborations also benefit the consumer. Can most of us afford high-end designs? Certainly not. However, that doesn’t mean that we don’t want to be well-dressed. While the quality of these lower-end collections is obviously not on par with the ready-to-wear designs, the items are designed in order to allow the average consumer an opportunity to buy stylish, well-designed, and yet affordable clothing. I can’t find a single thing wrong with that.
The arguments against these collections smack of elitism. It isn’t exactly news to me that the fashion industry, and discussion thereof, is rife with elitism, but I always find it disappointing. There’s no benefit that I can see to keeping fashion out of the reach of the masses. The overwhelming frenzy surrounding the H&M launch this week just goes to show that thousands of people the world over are in favour of these designer/high street collaborations.

 

[shoexgal]

i thought of this thread when I saw a trashy 40 year old lady pushing a shopping cart through target in the Behnaz S. Leopard Jacket. OMG, I think fashion should not be this affordable

 

[gia0202]

fashion is an immediate , easily consumed art--why not lower the prices to allow individuality and expression to flourish even when funds lack. some of ht emost creativedressers are under 30, and have less money. also a differnet sort of style is expressed by them via cheaper lines than the wellfunded closets of 40 yr olds.... i say let both coexist... the status of the expensicelines won'tgo away--and the reis still a differnece

 

[tott]

^ Yeah, why not let them co-exist...

I don't really mind if designers are supposedly diluting their designs or compromising their ideals when they do these collaborations. The fact is that these lines are not that great quality. They can't really be mistaken for the real thing...

 

[zamb]

i thought of this thread when I saw a trashy 40 year old lady pushing a shopping cart through target in the Behnaz S. Leopard Jacket. OMG, I think fashion should not be this affordable

why should it not be that affordable? because the lady was trashy, or because it was at Target?
and how do you expain people certain celebrities and wealthy public figures who are wealthy (able to buy any designer merchandise they want) and are still trashy...................

 

[zamb]

Well... I have to say that I don't find this discussion or K.P too snobby or rude, to be honest. It all depends on how you interpret things I guess...

I will say that Mr. Popper seems to be a bit "argumentative" sometimes, but is that necessarily a bad things? A little bit of resistance can help us sharpen our intellectual tools, if the points made are valid...

I enjoy reading what both of you contribute with on this topic...

in his previous post he seem to think i do not understand his posts , actually i do, very well i might add.(not bragging here but........) there are very few things that can be written in the english language that i cannot comprehend, as thanks be to God, i have a very good command of the language, i used to be a part time English teacher and my first job out of high school was that of asst proof reader for the most prestigious printing press/publisher in jamaica. I got this job because i scored extremely high on the Cambridge (yes... that Cambridge) english exams given in my country, Jamaica being once a british colony. this is probably the first time i have ever spoken about these credentials, as they are not relevant or important to me at all. I am a designer, as a matter of fact a self taught tailor... if you will.
i do enjoy Mr.Poppers posts, but i am equaly dissappointed in his "unerring" efforts to always make himself seem highly intellectual, even when his comments do not require it.
I am also dissappointed in his desire to take condescending swipes at fellow TFS members, and this is where i have a problem.........

 

[Karl.Popper]

Post 176:

in his previous post he seem to think i do not understand his posts , actually i do, very well i might add

Post 166:

after all......... we are having a discussion, and how can we have a discussion if very few can understand the points you are trying to make.

First you complain that "few can understand me", then you claim that you understand me perfectly.

lol! Which is it now?

 

[zamb]

Well... I have to say that I don't find this discussion or K.P too snobby or rude, to be honest. It all depends on how you interpret things I guess...

I will say that Mr. Popper seems to be a bit "argumentative" sometimes, but is that necessarily a bad things? A little bit of resistance can help us sharpen our intellectual tools, if the points made are valid...

I enjoy reading what both of you contribute with on this topic...

in his previous posts, he seem to think i do not understand his comments , actually i do, very well i might add.
(Not bragging here but........) there are very few things that can be written in the English language that i cannot comprehend, as thanks be to God, i have a very good command of the language. iIused to be a part time English teacher and my first job out of high school was that of asst. Proofreader for the most prestigious printing press/publisher in Jamaica. I was hired before i left high school because i scored extremely high on the Cambridge (yes... that Cambridge) english exams given in my country, Jamaica being once a british colony. This is probably the first time i have ever spoken about these credentials, as they are not relevant or important to me at all. I am a designer, as a matter of fact a self taught tailor...(i prefer to be identified as such) if you will.

i do enjoy Mr.Poppers posts, but i am equaly dissappointed in his "unerring" efforts to always make himself seem highly intellectual, even when his comments do not require it, he seems more interested in showing himself in a "brilliant-than-thou" manner, as opposed to saying what he really wants with the intent of being readily understood.
I am also dissappointed in his desire to take condescending swipes at fellow TFS members, and this is where i have a problem.........
hopefully he can understand that i do not have a problem with his points, it is the manner in which he communicates ( and i know this is not his natural demeanor , as the language style of his posts is not consistent) that i have a problem with.

Here are a few examples of Mr. Poppers posts that i find rude.........

Clearly you are disagreeing with BaroqueRockstar's argument, not mine. In that case, please direct your misguided ire elsewhere, thank you.

You could make that argument. But it would be a profoundly dumb one.

Sorry, the ridiculous point of view on which that argument is premised is too absurd to even seriously consider. Then again, it wouldn't bother me in the least if you're saying that none of you have an education. From some replies I get, made without irony, I might be inclined to agree . . .

 

[Deleted member 7575]

What snobbery? The snobbery in saying that "true education" is only to be had at Princeton and its equivalent?

I do understand your point, but I think you misinterpreted mine. I'm not saying exspensive designer clothing is the only way to obtain and enjoy true fashion. My point is that whatever "fashion" is in today's society it has been sold down to the lowest common denominator. Marketing and big business have tricked people into thinking they are fashionable when they buy a $20 pair of cargo shorts that make them look they pooped in their pants or a polyester/lastex stretch knit halter top that exposes every unsightly fold and curve of a woman's flesh. It's this false sense of fashion that gets people to buy these clothes and even more so, to think they look good in them.

Your education analogy was interesting but it's not what I was trying to get at.

 

[Karl.Popper]

Indeed your credentials are quite irrelevant, so one wonders why you bothered listing them at all. Most commonwealth countries have some form of GCSEs or its derivative, so congratulations if you've done well in them. I also apologize if I seem highly intellectual, though I'm not sure how I can rectify that. Perhaps I should be a little more long-winded and a little less grammatical? Suggestions welcome.