The Decline Of Fashion Photography

[metal-on-metal]

Originally posted by FC5@Nov 25 2004, 08:13 AM
However maybe she's having the last laugh - the fact that we are even bothering to discuss this suggests that what she lacks in subject knowledge she more than makes up for in ability to get a rise out of us.

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I just think she's really, really stupid. I mean, why bother writing some sort of manifesto when you don't have a SINGLE valid point to back it up. Fashion photography is very much alive and well in the 21st century. Sure, Avedon and Newton and Scavullo may no longer be with us, but that just leaves more room for the Testinos, Sundsbos, Roversis, and Sorrentis to build their own already accomplished careers. This writer of this timeline is an idiot.

 

[softgrey]

you are welcome to everyone for the article...
i don't think it's as important to critique the writer and her argument, as it is to think about her points and form an opinion of your own...

personally, i am not as moved and inspired by fashion photography as i used to be...testino steals most of his ideas...i could give you specific examples...
but he's reliable and makes people look 'pretty'...which is why he works so much...
he is by no means a great photographer...
and how about ellen von unwerth?!?...
don't even get me started...the woman can't even focus a camera and is so derivative it's frightening...
as lovely as mario sorrenti is as a person, i find his pictures dark and lacking beauty... often, just sloppy and/or pretentious...
i think meisel has lost it...and he's copying everything these days...
la chapelle is entertaining in a freak show kind of way...which has its place but i wouldn't say it's great fashion photography...

carter smith and craig mcdean consistently surprise and amuse me with their fashion imagery...they rarely disappoint...
roversi, the same
inez and vinoodh are hit or miss..but when they hit-it can be amazing
mat and mercus -consistently lovely
nathaniel goldberg-wish i saw more often
phillipe cometti-same

fabien baron is indeed a genius and harper's bazaar under liz tilberis' direction was a joy to behold...baron respected the images and enhanced them with his use of text and layout...absolutely gorgeous...rather than the cosmo, mass market approach with 'how to get your man' or '80 million things you need NOW' blasted across the work... that was a great magazine...i still mourn for it's loss... i keep thinking and hoping that now that fabien baron is at french vogue...maybe something great will happen there...?

the first issue of harper's under tilberis/baron read on its cover 'enter the era of elegance'...i guess that's what i feel is missing from a lot of today's fashion photographs...that sense of elegance... it's hard to define in words, but you know it when you see it...and that's when an image makes one catch their breath...because it's so beautiful...i feel that elegance is missing in most things these days, unfortunately... (case in point-paris hilton...sheesh!)

 

[metal-on-metal]

Originally posted by softgrey@Nov 25 2004, 11:57 AM
you are welcome to everyone for the article...
i don't think it's as important to critique the writer and her argument, as it is to think about her points and form an opinion of your own...

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That's a good point.

My favorites today are definitely Inez & Vinoodh, Paolo Roversi, and Solve Sundsbo.

I understand your issue re: elegance, softgrey. But I think fashion in general is going through some sort of creative dryspell. I feel like nothing is exciting or interesting anymore. From the models to the magazines to the campaigns to the shows to photos to the clothes. It's all lost the spark it once had. I think we're at a saturation point with fashion and celebrity right now. Where we can go from here, I don't know.

 

[softgrey]

i definitley agree m-o-m...too many magazines and too many designers (or wannabe designers... ) ...i do think that some of these people joining forces to create a 'collective', if you will...may be a good idea...

and people need to take more risks...all the magazines are beginning to look the same...and to much like catalogs...boo!...don't get me wrong...i love my catalogs, but i want something more from an editorial layout...when the j crew catalog is my fave magazine...something is wrong...

 

[iluvjeisa]

softgrey - criticism is often the first step towards deeper understanding. There are definitetely flaws in the argument she is making and it's pretty easy to get annoyed if you have a more-or-less analytical mind.

Fashion photography is not as good as it used to be - we have no one as good as Newton, Avedon, Scavullo, Bourdin or von Wangenheim. Personally, I put my hopes to Nathaniel Goldberg mostly. I feel that he does something that no one has done before - I can't put my finger on it - and he still has an appreciation for beauty and awe-inspiring craftsmanship. He just will not produce sh*t like almost everyone else sometimes does.

I like Ellen vU is good but, yes, somewhat repetetive. M&M is hit and miss while Craig McDean and Carter-Smith are very reliable but not really genial. I like Testino, I have to say, even though perhaps he has had some low-points in his career. Meisel is good - not as good as the greats, though. I&V are pretty good, for sure, just not fantastic.

Demarchelier is still very very good as is Arthur Elgort. But where are Albert Watson, Hans Feurer, Barbieri, John Stember, David Bailey, Alex Chatelain and Andrea Blanch? I would be especially interested in seeing some Hans Feurer work for high fashion mags - he was excellent in the 70s.

 

[softgrey]

Originally posted by iluvjeisa@Nov 25 2004, 12:22 PM
softgrey - criticism is often the first step towards deeper understanding. There are definitetely flaws in the argument she is making

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of course and no problem there...just don't want to get stuck on that issue...hoping for a deeper discussion about the state of fashion photography today...

glad to hear that you feel strongly about nathaniel goldberg...
i feel like most people don't even kow who he is...at least in the US...
vastly underrated...

so many photographers have come and gone in the last few years...sort of like one hit wonders...
one gucci campaign and then disappear into oblivion... the industry is more and more fickle...

while this gives more new people an opportunity, it greatly reduces anyone's chances of actually making a solid living in fashion long term...plus, no one ever retires...EVER...so the people who were at the top when i started 10-12 years ago are the same people at the top now...it's hard to break through because there isn't room up there...only when someone dies...

and then there are all the independant magazines that publish young photographers...but very randomly...they don't nurture or develop a career ...there's no consistency...everyone's searching for something, but they don't know what...

where are the stars of tomorrow...???....

 

[metal-on-metal]

Originally posted by softgrey@Nov 25 2004, 01:17 PM
and people need to take more risks...all the magazines are beginning to look the same...and to much like catalogs...boo!...don't get me wrong...i love my catalogs, but i want something more from an editorial layout...when the j crew catalog is my fave magazine...something is wrong...

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This is largely caused by the corporate hijacking of the fashion industry, which has really taken effect in recent years. It's not happening at Vogue--the dollar has always been the bottom line there. But smaller, independent mags like i-D, selfservice, Numero, Pop, V, etc. are essentially controlled by their advertisers now and artistic merit becomes an afterthought when the main goal is shilling the latest pair of Gucci heels or the newest Baby Phat cell phone.

It's sad and pathetic, but the big corporate names know the precarious situation these mags are in. Because they are smaller and lack the backing of Conde Nast or Hearst or whathaveyou, they are forced to lick the boots of their advertisers. I'm afraid that the bigwigs will never lose this stronghold they have over the independent publishing industry. And these mags are in no place to stand up and say no to the big advertising dollar.

 

[gem]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who got the impression that she is a pretentious twit.

 

[Xone]

i agree on some points but basically that fashion photography its not what´s used to be....a great image moves you or cause some effect its pure emotional and i think photography is full with pretentious people who thinks they rock when really they suck and i see that also on the new talents which is sad,they force themselves to be "rare" to gain respect i think the best image is which balance perfectly fashion and a statement: a new proposal visually......

my faves:
testino
sundsbo
Inez
Terry
Newton (forever and always)
afanador
vincent peter
mert marcus
mc dean
richardson
sims
teller
vriens

 

[Avant Garde]

Click

 

[twilight fairy]

There are some valid points but.. I must say I am a fan of 'gritty realism'..not all of it, I don't like Richardson because he's too vulgar..but anyway. And I don't mind it when there isn't enough fashion in the photograph.. what bothers me more are those 'catalogue'-esque photographs..and photographs without any feeling or emotion, the very repetetive ones, i.e a model with beautiful long blonde hair waving in the wind, resting by a beautiful palm tree beside the beautiful ocean.

 

[Assembler]

I agree with many of the points in her post photo-essay, though have a different view on the misogyny being responsible for the somewhat vacant look in fashion photographs. I think this is coming equally from male photographers and female photographers because of a growing interest in youth, innocence, and "mannequin" style modelling (where focus is kept by the clothes, makeup, hair and not by the person underneath it). This works for runways I think, but I'm not a fan of it in photographs. I agree with her in that I prefer to see a fashion photograph and not just want to look like the model but want to BE the model. Maybe not in every photograph, but the vacant eye, sleepy look non-personality shot (like the dior photos in my vogue right now) makes the model seem to not even like what she's wearing or holding. It makes the model not even look like a living being, but like a statue or mannequin or drawing.

I don't know many of the photographer's named in this thread so far and will go and look at some in the rest of this section.