The Oversaturation of Fashion

[Deleted member 141309]

As a previous topic too, I decided to create this one after a certain threshold of mine has reached its limit.

Obviously the consequence of the internet and our attention span being shorter and shorter, the fashion seems to be reaching the point of a supernova - so dense and complex that it is about to explode.

First of all, I should say that I may be out of touch in certain matters, so this is only an opinion. Let us start with the amount of magazines - where many is too many. It is clear that after the death of Franca and departure of Carine the world of magazines suffered, and, arguably, Anna and Edward are the last two standing. Before we knew VI is for thinking, VP is for feeling (sexy and rich at that), US is for the creme de la creme of celebrities and Vogue UK would be a tamer blend of the first three, a balanced and quieter offering for a more restrained taste. With Farneti VI was a playground for a lot of questionable things, yet it still was different, and same could be said about VP by Alt, but now they are sharing content and blending together in an effort of saving costs and thinking that the customer is dumb (which the majority could be, judging by the success of fashion "bloggers" and YouTube "critics"). We also have AnOther, W, V, i-D, Glass, Self Service, Purple and so on, which are quite high in production, yet lost their way. It seems that despite being quite uniques and with clearer points of view: Dazed - subculture, Vogue - luxury, W - actors, Interview - performers, V - musicians, and etc., now it is a blend. Billie Eilish on Vogue and on Dazed. Before that it would be Bjork on Dazed and Sienna Miller on Vogue, and they would never switch their places.

Second, the amount of blogs on fashion don't help. While there were gems - some archives uncovered, or the actual documentary on how a piece is made, the craft itself, the majority of stalwarts quickly burn down. While blog websites seem dead, I tried YouTube - HauteLeMode lasted 1 month, and for years it has now been simply a guy bashing celeb events in an obnoxious manner full of LGBT mannerisms (as we know, being gay and mean is not a personality anymore). I recently tried the other guy that is really into Margiela and at first it seemed unsuspicious and fun, quickly spiralling down into questionable material and matter too subjective rather than educative. For today, I only read Vestoj and go to NOWNESS if I want rather mindless beauty to look at without thinking too much. I do not buy any editions anymore as the written material is either shallow or an elaborate ed (read - critics praising 100% of fashion because money).

Third, the physical oversaturation - the speed of new brands launching genuinely scares me. It has been many years where only the masters and craftsmen could survive being the best. Today we have either clones of clones (e.g. Korean fashion brands taking their own stance on Bottega-esque styles, or things like Yuzefi or Jacquemus - the Instagram titans of blandness), simply nondescript fashions (Sandro, Maje, Joseph, Zadig, and all that), mainstream brands that supply the majority, which are actually justifiable since all people needs clothes (Zara, Uniqlo and etc.), and finally lost designers that either survive by shock value (Collina Strada, ugh) or nobody knows how (Rodarte?).

When the bubble is going to burst? Are you pro-fashion expansion with it becoming more diverse in choice, or a you pro-fashion as more niche and artistic medium?

I myself, honestly, stand behind the notion of 75% of houses and magazines shutting down. Fashion is too polluting and we are not ready to launch things at this pace without much consequence, and with the postmodernism and the death of subcultures, magazines and designers seem to lose their voices and passions in commerce and profits. While we as people may self-feed on this idea of business corrupting the artistry, perhaps it is so due to the speed of things changing and the amounts of it - less media and collections required less attention and we could study past editorials, campaigns, collections and etc. more in-depth and the creators have more time to work on the ideas too.

Do you also feel different towards fashion? Is it better for you, the same or worse (not in quality, simply as a field of interest).

Personally, my interest in fashion is certainly suffering - before I would devour books, magazines, photos, videos and anything fashion, but after years of studying, I became either too well-researched or the fashion certainly reached the stage of mediocrity, and I sense my interest in it shaky. I seem to only check the designers I really enjoy (JW, Hedi) and the large brands (Dior, LV, Bottega, Gucci), and finding myself not caring about the rest. Moreover, the magazines are not that exciting to look at anymore and I cannot remember the last time I flicked through one, not mentioning bought one (not counting books or art editions). Prior to that I would research rather obscure fashion/art magazines (Puss Puss, A Magazine curated by, PICPUS, anyone?) or designers (I still remember a winter top wool I bought from Shawn Samson's first collection, an outrageous KTZ hoodie or a pair of couture trousers from Rad Hourani's Couture collections when he was presenting at PFW).

Unfortunately, the only solution, in my opinion, would be the decrease of fashion omnipresence and the obligation to slow down. Probably, it was the niche and elitism of fashion that attracted me before and it is gone now. And a lot of fashion conversations I am having quickly close as I find myself wanting not to discuss it (either because the field seems in stagnation for me, or because it became so widespread that a lot of people around think they know fashion from watching a couple of blogger videos, which I do not mind unless they behave like their an incarnation of Diana Vreeland and try to educate others, oh, the audacity).

How do you feel? Sentimental, tired, bored? Is fashion becoming simply a habit, or a hobby, a job we are too used to and are afraid to change now, or a comfortable parasite we are willing to put time into, despite a lot of us only criticising the majority of happenings? Do you love it as much as you did before, or maybe even more?

 

[SLFC]

Personally I'm just there for a ride until the bubble pops, and then things begin anew at this point. Just enjoying while its there. I came onto this interest really late obviously, like this account is under four years old. I think in many ways the decline has been quite quick.

 

[Phuel]

Indifferent.

Had I not come of age in the 90s and experienced the thrill of fashionbuilding throughout the 2000s, started a career in 2010, and learned about fashion all over again going back to the 1950s and onward, I wouldn’t care for fashion at all since this current era completely lacks creative vision and high-performance skills. Overall, from new designers, publications, shows, models and all new creatives— it’s a hugely under-qualified clusterfcuk of a joke that isn’t funny anymore.

 

[MulletProof]

Good thread, dontbeadrag. Very interesting to read other people's understanding of what's been in the air for some years now. I haven't read Vestoj in so long (wasn't sure it still existed!) but I love that you're tackling this issue through that Vestoj-ish route of critical thinking.

There's definitely an excess in the one area of fashion (commercial fashion) that ultimately 'defeated' all the others, which were crucial for some healthy exchange and mutual nurturing of ideas. It is so deeply engrained in the consumer's psyche that at this point, you kind of have to wait it out for a generation or two, and come to terms with the fact that some of us are just not in that type of once-in-half-a-century generation that gets to see and support some equivalent of the Antwerp Six in real time. When you see people with an above-average interest in fashion, truly believing any blame on 'suits' is misdirected and it's the designers the ones who have sunk the industry (as I read around here some days ago), you know it's not something that is going to go away with bigger support towards independence within fashion design. The indoctrination runs deeper. The downside of designers becoming celebrities is that their scope appears larger than it is within a conglomerate, and because we expect anything too complicated to be easily understood with the for-dummies dynamics of social media, if you can't see a suit, if you can't see or understand the strategies they carry out on a daily basis, then maybe.. their power is not that big and maybe it's the employee who secretly reigns in the hierarchy. lol.

Anyway, fashion is a habit for me. Dived into it as a kid, it followed me into adulthood and it's hard to just turn the page and develop a familiarity with another creative outlet on that same level. I was interested in clothes before I was interested in fashion though, that has been the foundation of my interest since I was like 10 and it remains unchanged. I love clothes and imagery the same way I did then. It had nothing to do with status or any exclusivity factor, I was too young to grasp these concepts. Initially, it was really just visuals: textiles, colors, design, being genuinely wowed that something so mundane as clothing could be so.. special. I was mesmerized on equal amounts by clothing through an industry and clothing as.. a reflection of the time and place we're in. I could stare at the books of traditional attire that my grandma had for hours. The attire of the Chuvash? my mind was blown lol. And I still get these 'sartorial experiences' when wearing something, or looking at costumes in a performance, or when I travel.

I separate all of that from fashion even if fashion monopolized the idea that it is the one industry that can ever be associated with one-of-a-kind garment-making or photography with some fictional narrative and a particular focus on the way humans dress. An interest in clothes? then you must be interested in fashion. Of course society informs the way we dress and consume but craftsmanship and creativity in dressing has existed long before fashion and it will most definitely outlive it.

All of this to say that my relationship with fashion has been progressively.. rocky. I used to have a very naive enthusiasm that matched my age but with adulthood came many realisations, aided by seeing independent design (the part that interested me the most because, who could possibly prefer a cover band over a band?) being decimated after the 2008 crisis, and then with the confidence to just accept it's an industry I can't stand for the most part lol.. the pyramid of values, the phoniness, the s*itty output, the empty praising, this vicious obsession with the most simplistic notion of beauty, the lack of questions allowed just because it's hedonistic, and then the vapidness of the questions when they are allowed and how they're always so disingenuous, just another farce that is only okay when it can be packaged as a commodity and generate more revenue.

This last aspect, the obscene approach to capitalism, is one of the things that repulses me to my very core. I detested the tasteless displays when looking at commercial fashion, I loved independent design but surprise, independent design was equally, if not more, polluted by the most insufferable type of people with a self-esteem trained to feed off the barrel bottom that it drives them to not be able to ever appreciate something without looking down on others and they will coherently explain why you should be mocked at and humiliated for your clothing choices or your class. Shops at H&M? so shameful when ~Carol Christian Poell can last for years~. That smug contempt towards the poor and this ultra neoliberal mentality of 'just put your heart into it and invest in GOOD fashion' is something that was so present it seemed like with it came with an interest for 'avant garde' fashion, but.. no, you buy them separately lol, but most people do that 2x1.

While I was never on board with that elitism and it's neither here nor there for me who else can access fashion and what kind of fashion, there's certainly a part of me that resents the lack of standards in order to easily acquire significant power within fashion and call the shots. It's detrimental. You can't 'pretend' you're a soprano in performing arts. In applied arts, you certainly can't be an architect without understanding a thing about structures, so to hand out positions and influence to anyone who can just bring money, not ideas, and on top of that contributes to making fashion less critical, more vulgar, dumb and individualistic, it's pure self-destruction. It started with the amount of 'streetstyle stars' outside of shows, up to now with the youtubers/online celebrities that dress like Carolyn Bessett to appear 'respectable' when they reached notoriety by throwing up cereal or farting on Vine. Just leaning so confidently on the lowest common denominator. I also remember crossing paths for a bit with some party promoter in LA, just the trashiest person one can imagine (regularly talking on speaker about the '8k he made last night', spitting out snot on his hand, couldn't tell 'their' from 'there' apart to save his life).. I was surprised to learn he's now, as he'd say, 'influential' in Paris through the Virgil Abloh crowd (which basically handed a legit platform to the worst leeches out of LA).

Exclusivity is a double-edge sword but in virtually any job you apply for or academic field, you need to have some requirements, in terms of education and skills, and you have to weed out the less competent for the sake of growth and until they're competent enough.. followers are not a skill or talent. Being friends with celebrities can be educational I'm sure, but it's not an education. Then again, when it IS businessmen ('suits') presiding over a creative field, this is the strategy you'll have: showing nothing but money, so you can make money.


To finalise this biblical chapter and for all of the above, I feel embarrassed for liking fashion, it feels so hypebeast-y, I don't ever talk about fashion in my real life (no need and also, not interested?) and I feel mostly skeptical and occasionally sad towards anything that takes place in it these days but like a car crash.. I can't manage to look away.

 

[jeanclaude]

Back in 1995 general public didn´t know anything about Prada. It was an elitist and obscure brand for hardcore fashion lovers.

Now in 2021 I can even see Prada ads in the bus stop next to the building I live in. You can ask teenagers about Prada...and they are able to identify the brand.

The fashion industry has experienced a gigantic jump in terms of exposure. And it has turned their attention from the "happy few" to the masses.
This change of target has damaged the creative factor. And this has happened in other industries too (films, music, videogames, etc).

As for me...I don´t like fashion. I love clothes and fabrics.
That´s the reason why I am fed up with the state of the industry; but at the same time I keep my passion for textiles alive.
I feel more joy looking for Charles James daywear clothes at Pinterest...than buying the new issue of Vogue.

 

[Fulton St Critique]

^^^ One of the most accurate depictions of my love/hate affair with the F word. I love, love, love apparel, accessories, footwear, etc. but the “industry” at large is so unappealing. Like honestly, I work in the corporate space (not in the highest form of luxury, but still dealing with the “rag trade”) of fashion and the clothing trade in general is quite dissatisfying as a whole. As many of us on this thread know, the industry is not what it seems like on the outside. There is no waltzing into the Dior atelier with a hot espresso, throwing your bags down and stopping to take a selfie with the archive as so many of those corny mood boards on social media depict. The inflation of the art of clothes making has undertaking such a superficial facade it is really unfortunate to witness. THAT IS NOT REAL LIFE.

Luxury is a form of beauty and escape for me, though clothing will remain a core part of my DNA that I simply cannot get out of my system. It is not about aspiration. Yes, I said it. One of my favorite pieces in the world is a Nicolas Andreas Taralis blazer I bought of Grailed (I believe it was from the SS12). The piece is definitely worn in, and I love it and cherish it as if it were my child. That is passion. Now, why would I ever purchase a pair of Bottega leather trousers for $3,500??? Why would ANYONE want to aspire to buy that? What, so I can show my online followers a first person point of view of me getting robbed? No thank you.

A point to the comment you made on this YouTube generation of bloggers. I mostly watch YT for sewing and pattern making videos. However, I do find myself watching those names you listed above and it is disheartening to say the least. The acclaim they receive from piers is hysterical. I love reading reviews of collections on WWD, Vogue, CRFB, and believe me, the majority of what these “influencers” state either has been written already or is an opinion that is so totally off it borders being funny. This is the state of “research”. No one reads, shops in stores, speaks with associates, etc. It is easier to post a picture to Twitter titled “Loewe SS22” with screenshots and receive 300 likes than it is to study the house and gain a differing perspective. Though, to the outside those people ARE the fashion industry.

Ultimately, to me it does not matter. I will always love clothes. If people want to overspend, that is there problem. Believe they are the next DV as someone said, sure, you are the smartest person in the room. If stealing images from Vogue Runway without any sort of comment solidifies you as a “fashion” person, yes you are very cool. All the while I will be sitting drinking an Americano in my Nicolas blazer loving every minute of it.

Thanks for the thread

 

[bc collector]

Do you also feel different towards fashion? Is it better for you, the same or worse (not in quality, simply as a field of interest).

That is something that has been nagging at me for quite some time: am I becoming hardened by age and experience, thus unable to appreciate what's new around me? Am I becoming one of those geezers who are endlessly nostalgic about all things past? Or is the fashion industry actually in desperate need of real creativity and fresh ideas? Or even, is all of the above true at the same time?

In terms of quality, there is little questioning that the industry is in a rut. There are many reasons for this: the main being that nowadays clothes are meant to be less a form of personal expression and more like tools to make money and produce endless profits; that marketing has completely reversed the modus operandi of most designers, who now have to cater to generic masses and give them what they want (the customer is always right, after all, no?), instead of trying to give them what they do not know they want yet; and ultimately because, in trying to reach to an ever expanding audience, fashion has become a form of entertainment, or better, has been gobbled up by the entertainment industry. Which means that although fashion has taken up a bigger portion of the general conversation compared to twenty or thirty years ago, conversely and in an inversely proportional manner, clothes have come to mean less and less. That is why, when you happen to read fashion reviews nowadays, it is likely the observer will dwell more on the production and setting of the show than in the actual apparel offering (and how could it be otherwise, when it comes to the latter there is not much to say anyway).

My main worry regards how, in such a context, can new, genuine, raw talent come to flourish and be appreciated. Could a new Lee McQueen be these days? Could a pennyless working class kid like him again be picked up for a sponsored MA scholarship at a major fashion college like CSM? Could he find another Isabella Blow (or Joan Burstein, in the case of Galliano) to give him the spotlight right out of school? Could he find another Tom Ford to invest money, like real sh*t tons of money, to build his business, someone who really understands the value of your work and does not just see you and exploits you as an amusing freak, like so many fashion designers are still looked upon by straight male suits? And, maybe more important of all, could someone like Lee McQueen still be able to express himself freely without being crucified at every step by the guardians of the woke tribe, by the innumerable, angry, obtuse, ignorant Diet Pradas of the world?

 

[Fulton St Critique]

Love your threads, dontbeadrag! Such good topics generate great conversations.

(I agree that solid blog websites seem to be on the decline- which is kind of a shame because I can be a little old school at times and love reading everyone’s opinions at my own speed. If you come across anything you love please be sure to write about it!)

As far as the physical oversaturation that you mentioned goes— I can argue for both sides, although overall, I think I would lean more towards pro-fashion expansion! And with the looming metaverse I think that oversaturation is going to be unavoidable. In the physical world, that balloon is stretching to a scary size (you know when it’s slowly getting bigger and bigger and you’re smiling but it’s a very nervous smile?) but that new platform will be limitless.

The result of so many clones/copycat brands out there is that they have no choice but to set their items at lower price points (they say it’s for inclusivity, but really it’s a lack of originality), and this new lower price point category encourages more designers to take a leap with their own brands (which is fantastic).
This has worked great for fashion lovers like me—I have always had a passion for fashion but the classic powerhouse brands, like Gucci, Saint Laurent, Versace for example, have always made luxury fashion intimidating. It’s now (maybe because I’m getting older) that I’m really feeling comfortable enough to embrace it. Probably due to these new brands acting as a stepping stone to the big fashion houses.

I also think there’s a bit of a catch 22— the high number of new brands popping up are forcing the classic powerhouses to continuously change/grow, but if that wasn’t occurring then the conversation would be (and is, from what I’ve seen) is how certain brands have become stale and need to be re-branded…

Can’t hide from change I guess.

When you speak of “Fashion in the Metaverse” are you referring to pieces and styles being uploaded onto an online space? Or how do you see fashion existing in the Metaverse?

For me I find the potential of Meta to be incredible in the most positive way possible. But I have to laugh at the thought of real fashion existing in an online world. Take for example Anime. The characters in these stories are often given costumes that resemble styles seen IRL, but beyond that they are just sketches in a studio uploaded to animation. In the same way that is the only fashion that is going to exist in the Meta. It is a game of popularity then. Instead of art or whatever you would like to call “Fashion”, it becomes entertainment, and friviluos, almost like a currency of sorts.

Metaverse fashion abandones fashions most important principles- fabric and fit. “Meta Fashion” is more inline with the concept of NFTs rather than an interpersonal object. In a simplier word, it loses all its geniune appeal.

 

[blueorchid]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I've been pondering the premise of this thread since reading it a few days ago! I have a lot to say, about nothing, but it's been interesting to reflect on my relationship with fashion. I might sound crazy, but I think I just have to get some thoughts out of my system!!

Personally, I stepped away from "fashion" completely for a good number of years because I simply didn't care. I couldn't be bothered to keep up with everything anymore. I got distracted by my real life, but what's interesting is that during this time I probably focused on my actual "style" (which sounds so pretentious) more than the years I fiendishly followed fashion. Probably because I was actually focused on the clothing (I appreciate the separation of clothing vs fashion, MulletProof!!) versus the fashion of it all. Freeing myself from notions of popular fashion was a small relief. I'm much more likely to spend serious money on things like socks (lol), shoes, outerwear, bags, and glasses, keeping cost per wear in mind, versus just pants/dresses/shirts that would be rotated.

As for fashion magazines, which I was absolutely nuts over and probably drove local bookstore managers crazy in my quest for Vogue Italia (I gasp at how much I paid for some of those issues, c'est la vie). I remember making a trip to a bookstore prior to visiting a professor for advice on a paper and struggling to the professor's office after I purchased Pop, Love (maybe the second issue), thick September Vogue issues, etc. it was... a nightmare, but I loved it. I loved being delighted, surprised, intrigued by editorials and complaining like hell about awful covers. It was fun. Over the years I've browsed the fashion magazine sections of bookstores and, personally, I just don't see much in them. I didn't realize all the turmoil at Conde Nast (sacking editors, reprints becoming the norm) until I read the Business of Magazines forum here in January and, well, I guess it was obvious as a casual observer.

Now that I'm kind of back on a fashion-kick again. I have no idea what set off this mild-obsession in January, but somehow re-discovering the work of Yves Saint Laurent (and thank god for Pierre Bergé's devotion to that legacy, in this case, because there have been so many excellent publications about YSL's work over the past few years. Thank god his work has been preserved.) has led me to dive back into fashion, in general. After re-watching some of the shows I grew up loving and started the dream of fashion for me, I've gone back and watched so many great collections on YouTube. Even some collections I didn't appreciate when I was younger, I "get" now (some are still bad, lol -- they'll rename nameless). When I looked at current shows, to see what was going on at the fashion houses I was fiercely devoted to... all I can think is "Okay..." Not everything, but more than I'd like to admit. I guess what disappoints me the most about current collections and the state of fashion, from what I can surmise is that... for me, I used to watch those shows and fantasize "when I'm older blah blah blah," especially remembering the shows from the 90s that I used to watch on Fashion Television with Jeanne Becker, not having a clue in hell what was going on, but loving it. Now that I am "older" (an elder millennial, if you will) and could afford certain pieces I fantasized about when I was younger, there's just nothing for the older self I dreamed of being. When I went back and watched those old collections, the teenage dreams came back hard and fast.

I'm very intrigued to see where fashion is going (other than down the toilet), because there has to be something that will spring up. I hope. Even if it's not for me. Due to my YSL obsession, I'm reminded of an interview he gave to WWD in 2004: "It is like a forest. One cuts down the old trees and waits to see what the ones we’ve planted will become. For the moment, one doesn’t see very clearly. We don’t know what will grow up. But it grows. It deserves a chance." It makes me curious to see what could be happening, maybe one day in the future it'll come around. Or we'll get something new, if we're lucky.

My main worry regards how, in such a context, can new, genuine, raw talent come to flourish and be appreciated. Could a new Lee McQueen be these days? Could a pennyless working class kid like him again be picked up for a sponsored MA scholarship at a major fashion college like CSM? Could he find another Isabella Blow (or Joan Burstein, in the case of Galliano) to give him the spotlight right out of school? Could he find another Tom Ford to invest money, like real sh*t tons of money, to build his business, someone who really understands the value of your work and does not just see you and exploits you as an amusing freak, like so many fashion designers are still looked upon by straight male suits? And, maybe more important of all, could someone like Lee McQueen still be able to express himself freely without being crucified at every step by the guardians of the woke tribe, by the innumerable, angry, obtuse, ignorant Diet Pradas of the world?

This is also something that's interesting to mull over, because I think the answer to this is a resounding no. I don't think a new Lee McQueen could flourish these days. It's a problem that reflects other areas of the arts too: actors, directors, musicians, writers, etc. It's hard to break through unless you were born into it or are supremely lucky. A creative vision and a work ethic just aren't enough, which is a big loss.

I feel more joy looking for Charles James daywear clothes at Pinterest...than buying the new issue of Vogue.

And isn't that the truth?

 

[susseinmcswanny]

the main being that nowadays clothes are meant to be less a form of personal expression

I think that is sort of the problem but it is more that the personal expression is fueled by the interests of like... endlessly scrolling on your phone or thinking all day about what it'll take to become famous. Because theoretically you'd think oversaturation in fashion would be exciting because that is endless content of personal expression? But instagram gives everyone the potential to be famous and the idea of what fame is differs from what it was even like 7 years ago. It's more and more taking precedence in what inspires people to create. The interest in being a designer outweighs wanting to do the work to be a good one. I.e. Jacquemus, Ludovic de nonbinary saint Twink whatever, even Matthew Williams. I can see some of their personality in their clothes, but I end up lumping it all together because it has all same the same undertones of being "this wud be a cool pic" and "I wanna be a big deal" merch. But I don't necessarily think that sort of inspiration is a bad thing because who doesn't wanna take cool pics or have a certain status. Hunger for fame and importance was always there before and it didn't stop people from creating great moments in fashion. It even fueled it. It just appears way easier to achieve now so there's a bottom line of mindless creation for the sake of attention online. Everything is gonna look and feel the same. It's boring. It reminds me of when I went to a casino recently and there's all these depressed people at the slot machines wasting away hoping they'll hit the jackpot one day. It's so miserable. I really am not the one to talk but pls just relax and do some sort of self reflection once in a while. Think about what you enjoy doing. Bring up your other interests when you create like music, art, science, history, whatever. Ludovic! Show me what it actually means to be an attention wh*re gender neutral Twink for real!

And it doesn't help that with instagram and tiktok etc. the major fashion outlets keep seeking in this pool of "talent" and are scrambling so hard to seem PC that they don't even know what they're doing anymore. Everyone knows you're rich garbage human beings. Just embrace it. That's what I find so ******** about twitter and instagram tokens fighting about how they're gonna "hold the fashion industry accountable". Please T_T accountability requires consent. You're not gonna change anything. Maybe mildly on the surface, but really you're just helping them repackage the same old bullsh*t. If you don't like it, don't try to be a f*cking part of it. Take from it or be your own force against it. Neoliberals make me want to ***

 

[bc collector]

I think that is sort of the problem but it is more that the personal expression is fueled by the interests of like... endlessly scrolling on your phone or thinking all day about what it'll take to become famous

For the sake of clarity: what I meant by personal expression is personal expression of ideas and the urge to say something that has not been said already.
Narcissism has nothing to do with it.

 

[Drusilla_]

I don't think modern-day fashion is a complete writeoff but the fact is that fashion for a couple of decades now, has basically been turning into....entertainment. It maybe always had an element of involvement with entertainment through film and television, the red carpet, the whole 'celebrities on magazine covers' thing, but now the industry itself and the way it's talked about now, is the way I used to see sports fans and media talking about football matches. Like the product isn't what it's about, the mechanics of the fashion industry are the focus. The idea seems to be that because everyone wears clothes, high-end fashion should pander to literally everyone (I'm not talking of necessary things like extended sizing but also a trend in the fashion media of a heavy focus on "identities"), and if you read magazines or social media at all, it's absolutely exhausting.

I actually don't think bloggers are to blame for this - the earliest generation of fashion bloggers were just fashion fans seeking to explore their interest, express themselves through fashion (a normal thing!) and connect with like-minded people. But enter mainstream media interest (Vogue, NYT, NYMag, the Guardian etc) anointing certain of them as "chosen ones", brands followed and threw money at them, and before we know it we have influencer culture and now "archive account" culture with people thinking they're entitled to compensation for doing a google image search and posting someone else's image.

 

[LadyJunon]

I can't help, but feel that this oversaturaion is going to lead some sort of industry wide "massacre" in the next 10 to 20 years. An industry that specialises in expensive, frivolous items can only banalise itself so far before it loses the purpose of its existence.

 

[Drusilla_]

It's already happening and been happening for a while now imo - fashion professionals leaving the field to go into tech, publication after publication shutting down or "consolidating"/"going digital", higher-end brands throwing out more and more PR guff about how they are "for everyone", the overall decline in quality of output across fields being presented as "democratisation". Fashion needs its younger cohort of consumers in order to stay relevant but I'm not sure any of this seems to appeal to them on a lasting level.

 

[Uemarasan]

Good thread, dontbeadrag. Very interesting to read other people's understanding of what's been in the air for some years now. I haven't read Vestoj in so long (wasn't sure it still existed!) but I love that you're tackling this issue through that Vestoj-ish route of critical thinking.

There's definitely an excess in the one area of fashion (commercial fashion) that ultimately 'defeated' all the others, which were crucial for some healthy exchange and mutual nurturing of ideas. It is so deeply engrained in the consumer's psyche that at this point, you kind of have to wait it out for a generation or two, and come to terms with the fact that some of us are just not in that type of once-in-half-a-century generation that gets to see and support some equivalent of the Antwerp Six in real time. When you see people with an above-average interest in fashion, truly believing any blame on 'suits' is misdirected and it's the designers the ones who have sunk the industry (as I read around here some days ago), you know it's not something that is going to go away with bigger support towards independence within fashion design. The indoctrination runs deeper. The downside of designers becoming celebrities is that their scope appears larger than it is within a conglomerate, and because we expect anything too complicated to be easily understood with the for-dummies dynamics of social media, if you can't see a suit, if you can't see or understand the strategies they carry out on a daily basis, then maybe.. their power is not that big and maybe it's the employee who secretly reigns in the hierarchy. lol.

Anyway, fashion is a habit for me. Dived into it as a kid, it followed me into adulthood and it's hard to just turn the page and develop a familiarity with another creative outlet on that same level. I was interested in clothes before I was interested in fashion though, that has been the foundation of my interest since I was like 10 and it remains unchanged. I love clothes and imagery the same way I did then. It had nothing to do with status or any exclusivity factor, I was too young to grasp these concepts. Initially, it was really just visuals: textiles, colors, design, being genuinely wowed that something so mundane as clothing could be so.. special. I was mesmerized on equal amounts by clothing through an industry and clothing as.. a reflection of the time and place we're in. I could stare at the books of traditional attire that my grandma had for hours. The attire of the Chuvash? my mind was blown lol. And I still get these 'sartorial experiences' when wearing something, or looking at costumes in a performance, or when I travel.

I separate all of that from fashion even if fashion monopolized the idea that it is the one industry that can ever be associated with one-of-a-kind garment-making or photography with some fictional narrative and a particular focus on the way humans dress. An interest in clothes? then you must be interested in fashion. Of course society informs the way we dress and consume but craftsmanship and creativity in dressing has existed long before fashion and it will most definitely outlive it.

All of this to say that my relationship with fashion has been progressively.. rocky. I used to have a very naive enthusiasm that matched my age but with adulthood came many realisations, aided by seeing independent design (the part that interested me the most because, who could possibly prefer a cover band over a band?) being decimated after the 2008 crisis, and then with the confidence to just accept it's an industry I can't stand for the most part lol.. the pyramid of values, the phoniness, the s*itty output, the empty praising, this vicious obsession with the most simplistic notion of beauty, the lack of questions allowed just because it's hedonistic, and then the vapidness of the questions when they are allowed and how they're always so disingenuous, just another farce that is only okay when it can be packaged as a commodity and generate more revenue.

This last aspect, the obscene approach to capitalism, is one of the things that repulses me to my very core. I detested the tasteless displays when looking at commercial fashion, I loved independent design but surprise, independent design was equally, if not more, polluted by the most insufferable type of people with a self-esteem trained to feed off the barrel bottom that it drives them to not be able to ever appreciate something without looking down on others and they will coherently explain why you should be mocked at and humiliated for your clothing choices or your class. Shops at H&M? so shameful when ~Carol Christian Poell can last for years~. That smug contempt towards the poor and this ultra neoliberal mentality of 'just put your heart into it and invest in GOOD fashion' is something that was so present it seemed like with it came with an interest for 'avant garde' fashion, but.. no, you buy them separately lol, but most people do that 2x1.

While I was never on board with that elitism and it's neither here nor there for me who else can access fashion and what kind of fashion, there's certainly a part of me that resents the lack of standards in order to easily acquire significant power within fashion and call the shots. It's detrimental. You can't 'pretend' you're a soprano in performing arts. In applied arts, you certainly can't be an architect without understanding a thing about structures, so to hand out positions and influence to anyone who can just bring money, not ideas, and on top of that contributes to making fashion less critical, more vulgar, dumb and individualistic, it's pure self-destruction. It started with the amount of 'streetstyle stars' outside of shows, up to now with the youtubers/online celebrities that dress like Carolyn Bessett to appear 'respectable' when they reached notoriety by throwing up cereal or farting on Vine. Just leaning so confidently on the lowest common denominator. I also remember crossing paths for a bit with some party promoter in LA, just the trashiest person one can imagine (regularly talking on speaker about the '8k he made last night', spitting out snot on his hand, couldn't tell 'their' from 'there' apart to save his life).. I was surprised to learn he's now, as he'd say, 'influential' in Paris through the Virgil Abloh crowd (which basically handed a legit platform to the worst leeches out of LA).

Exclusivity is a double-edge sword but in virtually any job you apply for or academic field, you need to have some requirements, in terms of education and skills, and you have to weed out the less competent for the sake of growth and until they're competent enough.. followers are not a skill or talent. Being friends with celebrities can be educational I'm sure, but it's not an education. Then again, when it IS businessmen ('suits') presiding over a creative field, this is the strategy you'll have: showing nothing but money, so you can make money.


To finalise this biblical chapter and for all of the above, I feel embarrassed for liking fashion, it feels so hypebeast-y, I don't ever talk about fashion in my real life (no need and also, not interested?) and I feel mostly skeptical and occasionally sad towards anything that takes place in it these days but like a car crash.. I can't manage to look away.

I’m a little late to this, but this was very well-put. I remember the days when I would look forward to every new Elsa Klensch episode. Nowadays I can barely be bothered to even check the fashion calendar.

Indeed, clothes will always be around, but fashion doesn’t last forever. The problems plaguing the industry aren’t even unique to fashion. I would say it’s a cultural anxiety that can be found everywhere, from movies to politics. I think what we have before us is basically the utter and ubiquitous triumph of capitalism aided by technology that has successfully made itself indispensable to our lives. Or is it that that was the world we were always living in? I don’t know. I think fondly of an age when most of our personal photographs stayed between yellowing album leaves to be shared with close family and friends instead of being monetized across multiple digital platforms.

 

[Drusilla_]

The problems plaguing the industry aren’t even unique to fashion. I would say it’s a cultural anxiety that can be found everywhere, from movies to politics.

Yes, there's been a shift over the last ten years to seeing entertainment as something that must have "values" - that attitude was always there, but mostly from one side of the political spectrum, which fashion has mostly ignored because it was easy to do so. Now it's from the other side of that spectrum and the call is coming from 'inside the house" (or wants you to think that it's coming from inside the house). I can't even say that this is a bad thing, but I do think it's carried to extremes. And fashion, now that it's found relevance only as a spectacle and as entertainment, is caught in that too.