The rules of corporate dressing for men?

[QuirkyCool]

Not the most stimulating thread ever to be posted on tFS,and I do apologise.

My fiance works in finance and is stuck in a suit and tie 4,often 5 days a week. (Barring a few casual Fridays).
He has good taste in casual clothes (well he's kind of preppy but it suits him) and always looks great on weekends.

We need to do some shopping for work clothes for him though,and I am clueless as to how to help him,so this has generated the following questions.

1) What are the rules concerning ties? How do you decide which tie goes with which jacket and shirt? Are there rules about colour matching/toning,and if so,what should go with what?

2)Is a belt compulsory at all times? He always wears one,but has noticed that very many people at the office don't. He is very skinny with slim hips though,so I tell him to choose the option where his trousers stay up .

3)Is there anyway at all (other than meticulous grroming,fine tailoring,subtle fragrance,good shoes,watch and coat etc) of giving a corporate suit an individual imprint? I know that in some work environments you as in individual are not really the point,and the main thing is to look professional...I think that he could have *some* leeway here though.

4) Is there a particular characteristic that the shirt should have,under a suit?

I just despair when I see the charcoal/navy/black/grey/all of the above with pinstriped suits...I am comatose after about 10 minutes of suit shopping,I cannot tell the difference between any of the shirs and I hate the ties .

It's not that I want to dress him ,I wouldn't dare ,but I'd like to have an educated opinion when asked for one!

Are there any stylish corporate men out there,or their tasteful women ?

 

[QuirkyCool]

Ugh I literally tried twelve times to post this before it went through...and each time I had to retype the title...

So pleeeeeeeeeeeease....could someone edit the typo in the title? It should say "corporate"....


Thank you!

 

[Curious]

Oh boy, Quirk!

Well, I'm not an expert on corporate dressing for men as I'm a woman and our dress code is pretty slack, but I'll do my best at an opinion I think you need Clinton Kelly from What Not to Wear

1) I think it would be like matching a scarf to your outfit. Maybe use the tie as a way to "tie" (yuk,yuk ) the shirt, suit & accessories together.

2) I would think a belt is personal preference. And keeping your pants up is probably considered professional

3) The tie is the best option for this I think. I also like subtle complimentary patterns in men's suiting. Subtle enough to not cause a wave, but still interesting.

4) I'm at bit of a loss here I just figured it should always be woven as opposed to knit...

I think he could probably add alot of pizzazz just by adding color and pattern to his work-day garb, but subtlety is key.

Imagine how refreshing it would be for his co-workers I'm so sick of the khaki pant/blue button down combo I could , but that's the "business casual" dilemma

 

[fashionista-ta]

1) When I worked at a store that sold menswear, we took our cue for ties from the pinstripes in the suit, if any. If there are none, then you have more options. I'm not sure there are many unbreakable rules about ties, but I wouldn't want to clash with the pinstripes in the suiting. Most challenging is a pattern to all three. If you have a strong striped shirt, an easy option is to go with a single-color tie. But you don't have to.

2) IMO, a man should wear either a belt or braces with a suit. But certainly wearing both would be worse than wearing neither

3) Absolutely, and it's not really any different from what we would do if we had to wear a uniform. Men's fashion is more subtle, but there is a fair amount of choice. I myself like novelty ties (not too crazy), patterned shirts, spread collars, and patterned socks. Also there's a lot of variation in the cut of the suit, 2 vs 3 button, differences in lapels.

4) It should be crisp and preferably the material should be beautiful. Some men look great in white shirts, others look much better in blue.

I do understand your boredom You just have to train your eye to a whole new level of subtlety. Something like a shirt with a herringbone weave can really make a difference. Shoes, too, you can inject something there. I am 100% anti-wingtips, btw That is the quickest way to ruin everything--all the world's most boring men wear wingtips, I am convinced. Probably someone here has a cool pair, but I have yet to see them

 

[Buckwheat]

Originally posted by fashionista-ta
I am 100% anti-wingtips, btw That is the quickest way to ruin everything--all the world's most boring men wear wingtips, I am convinced.

ohh nooo....

 

[Curious]

Show us the cool ones Buckwheat

 

[fashionista-ta]

I have seen them worn with attitude, laces undone, etc., with jeans ... but here we're talking about how to spice up traditional corporate clothes. In this setting, wingtips are not ironic, they are deadly serious. Better to go with an edgy shoe, I say ... maybe a bit of a square toe, gloss black ... I've seen that done really well.

 

[djflame]

Well I hate square toes. They make my feet look short and stubby, like chinese foot bandanges.

Go with a round or chisel toe. I prefer round myself.

and I think one important rule is to match the belt color with the shoes.

 

[QuirkyCool]

Thank you so much everyone!!! You have given me some great ideas... (now to see whether there is any resistance to their application in practice )...

I'll transfer the news about the compulsory nature of belts...

I hope that I am equal to the minefield which is ties...strangely enough I tend to notice hideous ones,but enver nice ones...

It doesn't help that I work in pediatrics and my male co-workers' idea of a great tie is one featuring Mickey Mouse or Winnie the pooh

Karma to all of you..and if anyone else has any ideas just shout LOL!

I didn't actually expect anyone to reply at all LOL.

Buckwheat if you ever wear a conservative corporate suit,please post a pic!! I'm sure you'll do it wonderfully

ta-ta I laughed out loud at the "ironic wingtips"...I tried to picture his co-workers staring at a piece of "irony"....

 

[fashionista-ta]

Here's some ties ...

I used to love selling Ermenegildo Zegna, I'd always put them on the displays and them people would buy them.

This is Ferragamo (neimanmarcus.com) ... I could do something interesting with the colorway on the R ... say navy suit, cream color shirt ... the pattern is butterflies btw ...

saks.com, Canali ... would look better on a blue shirt ...

Brioni dot print



Canali again, interesting variation on your standard red tie

more Canali

Now if you ask me most of these are not good examples of shirt/tie styling, but ... they do illustrate that ties don't have to be boring.

 

[nr9dream]

Ok, I did a project a while ago about classic dress codes so I have a little documentation about this topic. I think the key is probably to be familiar with the classic menswear fabric qualities & to match colors either 'ton sur ton' or by complementary contrast…

Here are a few amusing quotes from a book about the ideal executive wardrobe Dress for Success by John T. Molloy:

1) There’s a very long chapter about ties but a few excerpts:

When tied properly the tip of the tie should come just to your belt buckle (length needed will depend on how tall you are and knotting method)

Best material: silk

there is no top limit to what silk ties can cost but the very best ties in the best stores run well under $35. If a tie costs more, you are paying for something other than quality.

Basic Tie wardrobe should include: navy & maroon solids
followed by other solids & pastels (for summer) depending on wardrobe
other desirable motifs:
-sophisticated small polka-dots, classic club tie, rep tie (diagonally striped)
foulard (tiny geometric motif) repeating diamond pattern, and paisley which is considered a sporty tie (not serious)

Dont’s:

never wear anything gaudy except paisley. Never wear anything bright except foulard. Never wear large symbols, “storybook” or “big picture” ties. Avoid any material showing sign of poor dying, harsh colors, washed out or running patterns. (…) Avoid purple under all circumstances” (!)

To avoid looking like a gangster, always make sure that your shirt is lighter than your suit, and your tie darker than your shirt (with some summer exceptions)

My husband most definitely does not follow these rules and I pers. love navy or black shirts w/ a grey suit

3) No easy answer to this one…one of my favorite 'business appropriate' suits from my husband is from Marithé & F. Girbaud and has some subtle, raw-edge laser-cut detailing on the pockets…perhaps look for subtle detailing like this?

4) From the chapter “How to Maximize the Power of shirts”

-White tests as most effective shirt choice followed by solid blue & pastels (the paler & more subtle the better) The darker the stripe the more acceptable it is...Attached below are his tips for a classic shirt wardrobe

Some viewpoints in the book are very dated (and quite funny) but it gives a good overview of the traditional 'rules' of menswear…What I really dislike though is that the author constantly refers to good taste as a matter of 'class'

A great book I have somewhere is The Elegant Man which is more about the history of menswear but shows photos of all the key fabrics, patterns & details…I will see if I can find it to scan a few examples.

 

[fashionista-ta]

Yeah, I gave a copy of Molloy's book as a graduation present once ... nearly 20 years later the recipient has finally stopped teasing me about it. Molloy is full of crap ... The one thing he's right about, though, is black trench coats. I'm sure there's a great one somewhere, but the run of the mill ones really do look awful. This book is probably most useful today for someone from the wrong side of the tracks who works someplace ultraconservative like a bank. Thank God the dress for success era is over ...

 

[joerex]

I have seen them worn with attitude, laces undone, etc., with jeans ... but here we're talking about how to spice up traditional corporate clothes. In this setting, wingtips are not ironic, they are deadly serious. Better to go with an edgy shoe, I say ... maybe a bit of a square toe, gloss black ... I've seen that done really well.

wingtips are very nice to wear with a suit if you wear nice wingtips and a nice suit. cheap wingtips with a suit that has sloping shoulders, impotent lapels, baggy trousers, etc - look awful...but in that case the man generally looks awful.

i personally think that a square toed shoe with a "gloss" is the standard ugly shoe of metrosexuals. a shoe that is evocative of pilgrims in puritan america is not something i would ever want to wear.

i would recommend first and foremost paying close attention to the shoulders on suit jackets. the jacket should fit well and if the end of the shoulder is hanging off you look terrible. the same thing goes for shirts, but not to the same degree. i appreciate a shirt that is more fitted, but not tight, and certainly not billowing out from your trousers. and two or three buttoned suits are the way to go. two button suits look sharp with two vents on the back whereas i prefer a single vent on three buttoned suits. i remember a friend once remarking that a suit jacket with no vent looks like the wearer is wrapped in a cloth condom.

flat front trousers are the way to go if your husband is not fat. i think flat front trousers look a bit off with cuffs. if your husband is a little fat, pleated trousers look better, and they should have cuffs of a standard length.

i can't think of any hard and fast rules for shirt/tie combinations that go beyond the standard of "if it looks bad it is bad".

a pocket square can look nice, but you know a straight man always runs the risk of looking like a total dandy if he goes too far. at least a gay man is expected to be sort of a dandy man at heart.

it's my firm conviction that fit is the most important thing in menswear, and it's easy to distinguish yourself if your clothes fit well. most men look like slobs.

 

[joerex]

and i should add that "the best ties from the best shops" certainly do not cost "well under $35" today. i'm not suggesting that everyone needs brioni or hermes, but let's be reasonable.

 

[fashionista-ta]

wingtips are very nice to wear with a suit if you wear nice wingtips and a nice suit. cheap wingtips with a suit that has sloping shoulders, impotent lapels, baggy trousers, etc - look awful...but in that case the man generally looks awful.

i personally think that a square toed shoe with a "gloss" is the standard ugly shoe of metrosexuals. a shoe that is evocative of pilgrims in puritan america is not something i would ever want to wear.

I've known a number of modern-day Puritans (unfortunately), and actually they prefer wingtips ... resoled wingtips in particular. Take care of those babies and they'll last throughout your whole career, not to mention all three (or more) weekly trips to church. That's right, a pair of black (or if you're feeling frisky, oxblood) wingtips is all you need.

Pocket squares, however, are the work of the devil. A good clean white cotton hanky is all a good Puritan needs. There's no need to get fancy.

 

[PrinceOfCats]

i personally think that a square toed shoe with a "gloss" is the standard ugly shoe of metrosexuals

Agreed. I'm not sure what these 'wingtips' you speak of are (possibly what I'd call a Brogue, with it's wintip toecap?), but there is a certain kind of 'modern' square-toed shoe that is more hideous than those square concrete monstrosities they put up in the sixties in the name of modernity. It's the kind of shoe a man who doesn't like wearing a suit and isn't used to wearing a suit wears. It's almost as bad as wearing sloping shoulders - which truly is the crime of crimes.

 

[Sunkist]

What type of build/body does he have?

 

[QuirkyCool]

Thank you everyone for the input .

Nr9Dream Those were some interesting points,some very humourously made . I also thought "uh-oh" when I read about the shirt which should be lighter than the jacket,because I also instigated a navy shirt to be worn with a grey suit this weekend LOL.

As for "Stay away from purple"...I don't think wild horses could drag my fiance into purple,but the author has obviously never been to Holland . While out shooping,we saw purple shirts displayed with fluorescent green ties,pink shirts with red ties...and this was just De Bijenkorf (very sedate department store.)

The shoe argument is interesting guys. The man currently wears polished shoes of the round nosed,but not bulbous or blunt,variety.I don't think he's be in two toned things or square noses anytime soon. What exactly are "wingtips" anyway?

The idea of the M+F Girbaud suit edging sounds stunning....I'll be on the lookout .

Sunkist,he's 6 ft tall and very skinny with slim hips.

 

[djflame]

^ To first know what a wintips is, I've to explain brogues first. brogues are [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]tiny holes punched into the shoe form patterns on it.

A wingtip is a shoe [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]that has the brogue design on the shoe toe resembling stretch-out wings.

Example:

from Bluefly.com, Antonio Maurizi, $290
[/FONT]

 

[QuirkyCool]

In that case he has some black wing-tips,but he doesn't wear them to work,I don't think....thanks for the pic