Vogue Czechoslovakia September 2020 by Cameron Postforoosh & Michal Pudelka

[Hafyiez wafa]

 

[Krystalblue006]

Also, I hate this idea that every cover suddenly has to include every race, shape, size, nationality and what not just to satisfy the st*pidity of social media. Diversity is important, but not everything has to be about it.

I'm sorry, I know I'm new to this forum but I can't help but to respond to this particular comment. I agree that Vogue CS is allowed (and rightful), to put cover subjects relevant to their demographics. I agree that magazines should not try to pander so hard to social media, especially if it will only disrupt the creative process (genuine question, tho: isn’t it a good business move to play up to what the masses want? Even though you cannot satisfy every single one of them?). And I agree that diversity should not be the highlight for every single issue about hope and change as for me it should’ve been a principle in every step of the process.

But if every single non-white representation on a cover is regarded as only a way to satisfy the masses, and “stop pushing diversity down our throat” is the primary respond to it, then maybe.. maybe.. you just don’t want anything to change. (I’m hoping it’s not your intention, but your wording made me look at it that way).

Someone mentioned in another thread, that Anna Wintour (and Vogue US) is phony to do a black individual for a cover after decades of not featuring non-white subjects. Then what does this person expect them to do? Another cover of a random caucasian actress, or the same non-white individuals they’ve been showing for years, so they don't look so phony? I’m personally much more appreciative towards those who at least try to move forward, whether it’s sincere or not, 4000000x more if they can push the art direction to the next level lol. Because if it’s not starting at some level, change & progress is not going to happen at all

 

[JPineapple]

Oh, they keep dragging them on Instagram.

 

[aracic]

I'm sorry, I know I'm new to this forum but I can't help but to respond to this particular comment. I agree that Vogue CS is allowed (and rightful), to put cover subjects relevant to their demographics. I agree that magazines should not try to pander so hard to social media, especially if it will only disrupt the creative process (genuine question, tho: isn’t it a good business move to play up to what the masses want? Even though you cannot satisfy every single one of them?).

Welcome to the forum! Sure it's a good business move to play up to what the masses want, but it's also a fact that most of those people dragging Vogue CS on social media never bought an issue of it in their life. They're all very loud and demanding on the internet, but you won't see them rushing out to buy the issues once they get what they asked for. Again, I'm making assumptions here but I believe that they're publishing what sells for them. It's all just business (unfortunately) and there's not much we can do about it.

And I agree that diversity should not be the highlight for every single issue about hope and change as for me it should’ve been a principle in every step of the process.

But if every single non-white representation on a cover is regarded as only a way to satisfy the masses, and “stop pushing diversity down our throat” is the primary respond to it, then maybe.. maybe.. you just don’t want anything to change. (I’m hoping it’s not your intention, but your wording made me look at it that way).

I'm sorry my comment came across that way. I understand that this is a very touchy subject - which is why I mostly try to steer clear from discussing it. It's too easy to come across as ignorant, uninformed or even racist in some instances. It definitely wasn't my intention to say that I don't support change.
My problem is the way they're using this 'progress' as a selling point every time they make an effort. I don't respect that. I'd like to compare it to the praise fathers on social media (or in general, really) get for sticking around and fulfilling their parental duty by actively raising their children when it's a given, it's something that's natural or should be something that's generally accepted as 'normal'. I feel the same way about diversity in fashion industry. It's not supposed to be a selling point. Editors shouldn't pat themselves on the back and receive points for booking models and photographers of color - I find that counterproductive. Diversity shouldn't feel forced (as it does on most occassions, in my opinion) but should become something that's just a regular, expected thing. A given. It also shouldn't be tamed, because pretty much most of those 'diversity shoots' happen to be generic, basic and boring. It's most usually a studio shoot with inoffensive (read: boring) styling, static poses and weird angles. It's not interesting and it's not fashion because everyone involved is too afraid of being dragged over some stupid offensive act someone on Twitter could make up as an excuse to get attention and followers. I think that most black models naturally look fierce and gorgeous because of their unique features and the beauty of their skin which often translates really well on photography, but not many photographers know how to use that and what to do with it. And as I already said, people are too afraid of embracing black beauty because the internet will rip them to shreds, no matter what they do.
So no, I don't think they're pushing diversity down our throats, but I do think they are doing it wrong and I don't like that. There is so much opportunity and chances for creativity coming from black people that it's upsetting that noone knows how to show it.

Someone mentioned in another thread, that Anna Wintour (and Vogue US) is phony to do a black individual for a cover after decades of not featuring non-white subjects. Then what does this person expect them to do? Another cover of a random caucasian actress, or the same non-white individuals they’ve been showing for years, so they don't look so phony? I’m personally much more appreciative towards those who at least try to move forward, whether it’s sincere or not, 4000000x more if they can push the art direction to the next level lol. Because if it’s not starting at some level, change & progress is not going to happen at all

I saw the phony comment, and I don't agree with it. Anna's magazine isn't as white as everyone seems to believe - she's always had black cover subjects and models inside of her magazine. It was never an exclusively white magazine and to claim that it was would be uninformed lying. If she's guilty of one thing, it's favouritism - which does not only apply to black models and cover subjects only, but to white ones as well. Her cover stars are almost always repeating year after year, and that's not news to anyone who follows her magazine. Same goes for the group of models featured inside. But it was never exclusively white. I am aware of the fact that white actresses and celebrities made more appearances than women of color, but that's a much deeper issue that goes beyond just Vogue.

Anyway, to summarize - I do support diversity. I don't support the way it's done. Editors need to stop selling it and patting themselves on the back for it. People need to stop eating it up and raise their standards and expectations. That's it!

 

[Krystalblue006]

Welcome to the forum! Sure it's a good business move to play up to what the masses want, but it's also a fact that most of those people dragging Vogue CS on social media never bought an issue of it in their life. They're all very loud and demanding on the internet, but you won't see them rushing out to buy the issues once they get what they asked for. Again, I'm making assumptions here but I believe that they're publishing what sells for them. It's all just business (unfortunately) and there's not much we can do about it.



I'm sorry my comment came across that way. I understand that this is a very touchy subject - which is why I mostly try to steer clear from discussing it. It's too easy to come across as ignorant, uninformed or even racist in some instances. It definitely wasn't my intention to say that I don't support change.
My problem is the way they're using this 'progress' as a selling point every time they make an effort. I don't respect that. I'd like to compare it to the praise fathers on social media (or in general, really) get for sticking around and fulfilling their parental duty by actively raising their children when it's a given, it's something that's natural or should be something that's generally accepted as 'normal'. I feel the same way about diversity in fashion industry. It's not supposed to be a selling point. Editors shouldn't pat themselves on the back and receive points for booking models and photographers of color - I find that counterproductive. Diversity shouldn't feel forced (as it does on most occassions, in my opinion) but should become something that's just a regular, expected thing. A given. It also shouldn't be tamed, because pretty much most of those 'diversity shoots' happen to be generic, basic and boring. It's most usually a studio shoot with inoffensive (read: boring) styling, static poses and weird angles. It's not interesting and it's not fashion because everyone involved is too afraid of being dragged over some st*pid offensive act someone on Twitter could make up as an excuse to get attention and followers. I think that most black models naturally look fierce and gorgeous because of their unique features and the beauty of their skin which often translates really well on photography, but not many photographers know how to use that and what to do with it. And as I already said, people are too afraid of embracing black beauty because the internet will rip them to shreds, no matter what they do.
So no, I don't think they're pushing diversity down our throats, but I do think they are doing it wrong and I don't like that. There is so much opportunity and chances for creativity coming from black people that it's upsetting that noone knows how to show it.

Thank you for taking your time to respond to my post! I’ve been a silent reader for years and it’s nice to finally have an account to express my views and opinions. Now I get where you’re coming from, and I agree. The thing is I’ve seen people calling out this “sell-out” aspect of publication (& fashion), then goes on using that particular argument to devalue the importance of representation and inclusivity in the industry. That’s what irks me so much, and that’s what I got after reading your first comment. Nevertheless, I now understand that we’re actually in the same page. Once again thanks for the welcome and the explanation.