What happened to French fashion designers?

[Lena]

>Paris Texas?<

 

[mikevensel]

Too right, we all need to get to LA so we can get our heads screwed on straight, and realize that there is nothing more important in fashion than ... jeans and a T-shirt???

I think I know why I've never heard of your magazine ...

You know what most people wear everyday around the world? Jeans and Tshirts - if you dont beleive me just look around - maybe you live in couture gowns but if you do than you are definately the minority - fashion is not about couture but about clothing - all clothing - expensive and cheap - In LA we have a company American Apparel - it was stareted here and manufactred here and doubles its revenues every year - and is set to take over the position currently held by the gap - and what do they sell - the core of thier business is a basic tshirt .

Maybe you have never heard of kitten because you are too busy with your head in the sand dreaming about couture and how you can make more money to consume it. Wake up and smell the cotton..

 

[PrinceOfCats]

You know what most people wear everyday around the world? Jeans and Tshirts - if you dont beleive me just look around - maybe you live in couture gowns but if you do than you are definately the minority - fashion is not about couture but about clothing - all clothing - expensive and cheap - In LA we have a company American Apparel - it was stareted here and manufactred here and doubles its revenues every year - and is set to take over the position currently held by the gap - and what do they sell - the core of thier business is a basic tshirt .

Maybe you have never heard of kitten because you are too busy with your head in the sand dreaming about couture and how you can make more money to consume it. Wake up and smell the cotton..

The majority of the world's population wear clothes made in China. By your 'logic' (sic), that makes China the biggest fashion influence in the world. So what the hell are you doing in Paris OR Los Angeles?

 

[tott]

Well, I've never heard of kitten... And even though people wear jeans and t-shirts around the world, that's not all they wear.

In my part of the world, jeans and t-shirts are basics: they can be fashionable, but they are still staples. Your style comes from jackets, trousers, coats, shirts, knitwear, accessories, styling, shoes. Not t-shirts and jeans.

 

[susie_bubble]

You know what most people wear everyday around the world? Jeans and Tshirts - if you dont beleive me just look around - maybe you live in couture gowns but if you do than you are definately the minority - fashion is not about couture but about clothing - all clothing - expensive and cheap - In LA we have a company American Apparel - it was stareted here and manufactred here and doubles its revenues every year - and is set to take over the position currently held by the gap - and what do they sell - the core of thier business is a basic tshirt .

Maybe you have never heard of kitten because you are too busy with your head in the sand dreaming about couture and how you can make more money to consume it. Wake up and smell the cotton..

You're making generalisations on two levels:
1) That we at TFS are all couture heads. We are not swanning about in gowns making judgements about jeans and t-shirts. You do not need to talk to us about American Apparel like we've never heard of it before and there is no need to enlighten us about it. It does exist outside the US you know!
2) That most ppl wear jeans and t-shirt. Is that so? I can tell you that on a packed mundane Monday afternoon on the Northern Line tube, there was maybe 1/2 ppl in jeans and a t-shirt out of about 60.

I can't even articulate how ridiculous this thread is becoming. I was bemused at first but now I'm just getting deeply annoyed.

 

[fashionista-ta]

You know what most people wear everyday around the world? Jeans and Tshirts - if you dont beleive me just look around - maybe you live in couture gowns but if you do than you are definately the minority - fashion is not about couture but about clothing - all clothing - expensive and cheap - In LA we have a company American Apparel - it was stareted here and manufactred here and doubles its revenues every year - and is set to take over the position currently held by the gap - and what do they sell - the core of thier business is a basic tshirt .

Maybe you have never heard of kitten because you are too busy with your head in the sand dreaming about couture and how you can make more money to consume it. Wake up and smell the cotton..

I have news for you ... there's a difference between fashion and utilitarian garments.

Yeah, I'm familiar with American Apparel, and I'm not at all sure they're going to be the new Gap.

Perhaps I've never heard of Kitten because the major bookstores don't carry it. Or perhaps they simply have it shelved with "Dog Fancy" so I haven't found it?? You should check on that ...

 

[Scott]

So what precisely is the point here?! I saw this earlier but I didn't have the mental capacity to actually follow your direction...I still don't get it.

If you're saying there are no French talents,you are sadly mistaken. You mentioned Gaspard yet contrarily said there is something lacking in France. If you look beyond big names,France has an abundance of talents-Melodie Wolf,Robert Normand,Isabelle Ballu,Gilles Rosier,Alexandre Matthieu,Jean Colonna...I could go on. And as far as the nationalistic point of view....I really hate that. Ultimately,what's being French or Belgian have to do with design or talent,anyway? International talents based in Paris do their part just as much for "French fashion" as any other. There is no such thing as French or British fashion anymore....new generations arrive and it's all completely individual.

 

[nanker_phledge]

Actually, does any mod realize that most of these posts are royally off-topic ?

 

[mikevensel]

You are like a bunch of ants that regurgitate what others feed you - do some research and actually look around - then lets talk - I cant understand how so many people are against what I am saying - oh well I guess we all have our experiences which shape our opinions - take what you will from mine - its not an attack on france as some of you assume - its not france vs. the usa - you have all made valid points and I think its been an interesting conversation. I have tried to research what each of you do but it seems many of you either do nothing or are in hiding - why not share some of your credentials - I have - id love to know what you all do....

 

[Deleted member 7575]

His point about there being less and less french designers is somewhat valid. I don't think it has anything to do with being french per se, it's just that the high fashion world isn't secured anymore amongst central western Europeans anymore.

Some of the hottest labels right now (YSL, Lanvin, Rochas) in Paris aren't headed by French designers. But it means nothing when you consider that Balenciaga, Jean Paul Gaultier, Anne Valerie Ash, and even Lacoste are.

It's all relative. There are Brits who show in New York. Brits who show in Italy. Italians the show in France. whatever, who cares.

 

[kimair]

I think alot of people come to paris to attend shows because it sounds chic - but partly for the vacation factor

go to style.com or editorial.gettyimages.com and look at how many celebrities are at the shows in nyc, as opposed to how many are at the shows in paris...

the shows here are a spectacle because it isn't about the fashion, it's about being seen in the front row and a photo opp...they are a joke...
and karl lagerfeld has bought into this when it comes to his own line (not to mention his line was bought by an american), but rest assured, he is never moving chanel to nyc...

i have to agree with lena on this one, people go to the shows in paris because it's about the clothes, the buyers/press are there...it's not the kimberly stewart/carmen electra show...

nicolas ghesquiere stopped showing balenciaga in nyc because he hated the media circus that the shows had become...he wanted his shows to be about the clothes...

to your point that we are like a bunch of ants...many of the people posting work in the industry and/or are very well read and it seems as though you aren't listening or considering our opinions...
we're trying to have a discussion with you and find out where you're coming from, but that only works if you respect and try to understand where we're coming from...

and i am an art director who is currently getting a MFA in graphic design, and working on creating a magazine of my own as my thesis project...and as such i've done much research, writing, and reading...

 

[mikevensel]

go to style.com or editorial.gettyimages.com and look at how many celebrities are at the shows in nyc, as opposed to how many are at the shows in paris...

the shows here are a spectacle because it isn't about the fashion, it's about being seen in the front row and a photo opp...they are a joke...
and karl lagerfeld has bought into this when it comes to his own line (not to mention his line was bought by an american), but rest assured, he is never moving chanel to nyc...

i have to agree with lena on this one, people go to the shows in paris because it's about the clothes, the buyers/press are there...it's not the kimberly stewart/carmen electra show...

nicolas ghesquiere stopped showing balenciaga in nyc because he hated the media circus that the shows had become...he wanted his shows to be about the clothes...

You may not realize this but celebrities sell clothes - look at the celebs in ads - look at them at the oscars - what are they wearing? - many people idolize celebs and designers see them as tools to access the masses and sell more product - you may not like it but celebs are becoming a big part of fashion..

 

[helena]

You are like a bunch of ants that regurgitate what others feed you - do some research and actually look around - then lets talk - I cant understand how so many people are against what I am saying - oh well I guess we all have our experiences which shape our opinions - take what you will from mine - its not an attack on france as some of you assume - its not france vs. the usa - you have all made valid points and I think its been an interesting conversation. I have tried to research what each of you do but it seems many of you either do nothing or are in hiding - why not share some of your credentials - I have - id love to know what you all do....

OK buddy...I am happy to converse with you about the state of french fashion (or whatever this thread is supposed to be about), but lets not start getting personal.

Everyone else must respect this too....no perosnal digs here please or this thread will have to be closed.

 

[arlekindearrabal]

controversy, controversy...

is there supposed to be a quota on how many french designers are at the head of fashion houses or involved in the design process?? perhaps, after a couple hundred years, fashion is something that is so said and done in the minds of french people, that they just dont bother anymore... perhaps that's the reason for the influx of fashion talent from all around the world, finding the resources and environment that are appropiate for a task such as "fashion design"... they are the ones keeping the grand tradition of french fashion alive, and all the better for it... IMHO

 

[helena]

You may not realize this but celebrities sell clothes - look at the celebs in ads - look at them at the oscars - what are they wearing? - many people idolize celebs and designers see them as tools to access the masses and sell more product - you may not like it but celebs are becoming a big part of fashion..

There are MANY threads which discuss this issue - you should have a read....thats not for this topic.

 

[fashionista-ta]

I agree with an earlier post, Italy is the European country that is no longer relevent in contemporary fashion. You may argue that France is not exporting designers at the same pace it once did, that is because of the influx of talented young designers from the rest of Europe and the world. French designers still think in contemporary terms, whereas it seems that Italy produces fashion those incapable of forward thinking.

Milan seems pretty alive and well to me ... Prada, for example, continues to be pretty directional.

I see this thread, though, has gone rather quiescent

 

[tott]

Thankfully... And it is rather pointless to argue/discuss when people don't listen and respond to questions and critiscism, but goes off on another tangent instead.

 

[*sayan]

i just want to pop my head i to say one little thing. someone said it earlier but i feel its important to repeat.

There is a big difference between Fashion and The Garment Industry.

Fashion is a reflection of our society, it trigers creativity, social issues, craftsmanship, tradition, and like other creative/artistic crafts sets a mark to what was humanity at that moment in time.

The Garment Industry is like bread, u need it to survive but its by no means something to discuss in an artistic and creative conversation. It's just a cheap t'shirt and jeans.

Also another little thing, we are in the 21st century now i believe, being born somewhere is a quite...mm closed minded way of looking at things. Who cares where they are born, what matters is that they offer they'r craft, theyr love and theyr soul to one place. Paris. There are a lot of designers going to Paris just because everyone is there. But the ones we should care about are there because they want to share they'r energy. That's what really matters. The real ones don't do it for the money. ever.

 

[Spike413]

This is all beyond nuts....really it is.

LA overtaking NY for the American fashion market? (though it has nothing to do with the original topic) Not likely since everything that comes out of LA is of mediocre quality and all looks the same. Even though the majority of NY fashion designers are quite boring, it's still the epicenter of American fashion.

As for all the claims about Paris (which, in all 5 pages I read I didn't see the thread starter actually justify the claims with anything) that's just madness really. My basis for this? Paris is the home of haute couture, which, practical or not is the major driving force in fashion. That select group of couturiers, along with some rtw designers who constantly push fashion forward, are really the driving force of fashion. Aspiring designers don't dream to go to Paris for no reason after all, it's the creative capital in the fashion industry, and that's really not an opinion. Not to say that creativity is restricted Paris, but Paris is so packed with creativity that no other fashion capital could compete.

edit- sayan also makes a very good point, a lot of what the US exports is clothing, not fashion, and there is a big difference between the two.

 

[Spike413]

You are like a bunch of ants that regurgitate what others feed you - do some research and actually look around - then lets talk - I cant understand how so many people are against what I am saying - oh well I guess we all have our experiences which shape our opinions - take what you will from mine - its not an attack on france as some of you assume - its not france vs. the usa - you have all made valid points and I think its been an interesting conversation. I have tried to research what each of you do but it seems many of you either do nothing or are in hiding - why not share some of your credentials - I have - id love to know what you all do....

I wasn't aware that one needed credentials to observe creativity and the state of French fashion.