Yasser Arafat Dies At 75

[kragirl]

You know something miss celine, you got a lot nerve I mean what the f*ck else do they blow theselves and other people, including with their own kids, with? That is not only directed towards you,it's directed towards anyone else who thinks that they jsut made up a bunch of tools and sticks and somehow used it to kill people. It goes to show you that some of the un-balanced radical winged people who are giving the normal liberals a bad name by always defending the either the arabs or vice-versa on the other side with the israelis. What about the both of them? What about waht both are doing ot each other and if there's any possible way to stop the madness and massacre? Lord I just don't understand what is in theri heads and here some of us are taking sides and calling out the other, but I have to say, what about peace for both?

 

[purplelucrezia]

I had a wonderfully well argued point all set up and ready here...

But the honest truth is- I can't stand this topic. It all simply makes me miserable.

 

[kragirl]

"I had a wonderfully well argued point all set up and ready here..."

Yeah til' someone lambasted it and blindsighted it out of nowhere , yeah I kinda knew where this topic would end up, especially when some have are on either side of the mid-east crisis. All in all, just let the man have a proper funeral, like they did yesterday, not like the day before with all the mayhem, the people touching and surrounding his coffin, though some have said that he probably would've like that cuz it shows a lot of love loyalty towards him (like the guy in the crowd taking off the flag that was orginally draping his coffin and putting the famous checkered-style flag/ the same style scarf arafat wore a lot, on it with everyone cheering him on..)

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by kragirl@Nov 13 2004, 11:52 PM
"I had a wonderfully well argued point all set up and ready here..."

Yeah til' someone lambasted it and blindsighted it out of nowhere   , yeah I kinda knew where this topic would end up, especially when some have are on either side of the mid-east crisis. 

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I really don't mind arguing things, honestly, it's a challenge to me. I do know my material pretty well, despite what others seem to assume to the contrary. And even if I didn't know a particular side to an issue, I'd go find out as quickly as I could. One of my weakness is that I seriously cannot bear to look stupid!
It's just that, I keep getting bombarded with it from every side... Everyone's wanting to argue their point home, and make sure that I'm following what they believe to be right. This has been hitting me for as long as I can remember, and it's still going to continue.
I went to shul this morning and there were posters and billboards up along the sides, fighting their side of the story. I go to synagogue to pray and to get things off my mind and to be spiritual, but they're there, even. I remember that, in Hebrew school, some teachers wouldn't let us write the words PLO up on the board. Something as simple as that, for "please leave on," but it was present there, when I maybe eight years old. I'm certain that the other sides have them surrounding them too... And the papers say something else, as do the other forms of media. They each choose the pictures that they want to display to express their point. I was looking for a picture of a child earlier on, to get my point across, and I honestly saw children both both sides dead and bodied.
In the end- they all looked the same to me. Dead children, that's all. Whether they had the Palenstine flag draped over them or a Star of David. It's hard to express an argument when all you're seeing is that.
I could argue each of the sides so, so well here. I can do it, and I could fight to the bitter end over it. I'm not a weak person, I don't think. It's just that, sometimes I choose not to. Sometimes I just get tired, like right now. Each of the sides have things going for them, and against them. Both sides are desparate, and both have loyal followers who are willing to do whatever they think will get them what they want.

It's really just dead bodies though.

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by kragirl@Nov 13 2004, 11:30 PM
You know something miss celine, you got a lot nerve I mean what the f*ck else do they blow theselves and other people, including with their own kids, with?

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Dynamite is not MILITARY EQUIPMENT. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. The Palestinians have no tanks to shoot and protect themselves. Military equipment offers the Israelis some protection when killing others.

The dynamite (which ISN"T military equipment) that the Palestinians use are drastic measures but its the only f*cking measure they have. What the hell else do you expect them to use. UNFORTUNATLEY they don’t have the US giving them military equipment!!!

AND sadly it is quite easy to make bombs. Just think, the uni-bomer made some ferocious bombs with gun powder and a pipe. Even some school children have been able to make pipe bombs. Car bombs are the easiest because the car's fuel is what causes the boom.

I myself could probably make a bomb. It's quite easy to blow things up. ALthough I wouldn't.

I wish some people could read

 

[purplelucrezia]

I wish you could open up your mind. There are two sides to the story here.

 

[fourboltmain]

I think the fact of the matter is that these two factions aren't really going to get any closer to peace anytime soon. That said, let's hope I'm wrong.

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by kragirl@Nov 13 2004, 11:30 PM
What about the both of them? What about waht both are doing ot each other and if there's any possible way to stop the madness and massacre? Lord I just don't understand what is in theri heads and here some of us are taking sides and calling out the other, but I have to say, what about peace for both?

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Well lets see....

We have a group of people who left the land hundreds of thousands of years ago and established themselves off OTHER people's lands (think of the Jews who lived in Europe and North America). THen about a few dozen years ago some guy decided that they should reclaim that land because it supposedly belongs to them. THey think their sh*t doesnt stink and all that land should belong to them and not the people who have been living there the past thousands of years. Then to top it all off the world's bully gives them BILLIONS of dollars of their own tax money to give them military equipment so they can bully the people who have been living there for thousands of years. It's like me breaking into my old house and bullying the people out of the house with guns because it USED TO BE my house.

Then we have the Palestinians who have been living in that land rather peacefully until they were told that its not their home anymore and they're language will be gone and their country is no longer their country.....

Then the Jews have the nerve to say that Arafat shouldn't be buried in the land that he wanted to become a peaceful state in which both Palestinians and Jews could live along side eachother. WHo the hell and why the hell would someone sympathize with them?

Enough said

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by CelineChic@Nov 14 2004, 01:15 AM
We have a group of people who left the land hundreds of thousands of years ago and established themselves off OTHER people's lands (think of the Jews who lived in Europe and North America). THen about a few dozen years ago some guy decided that they should reclaim that land because it supposedly belongs to them.

Do you know your history at all? Seriously, I'm so tired of this, and of you.
You're making yourself look like an enormous fool here...

I actually feel a bit sorry for you so I'll leave.

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Nov 14 2004, 01:25 AM
Do you know your history at all? Seriously, I'm so tired of this, and of you.
You're making yourself look like an enormous fool here...

I actually feel a bit sorry for you so I'll leave.

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Oh please tell us. How old is Israel? How long have the jews had it as a state? How long has it been "Palestine"?

Please tell us

 

[CelineChic]

Israel origianlly was occupied by arabs. After WW2 it was devided and then Britian and the US gave the jews weapons to completely wipe out the arabs.


Please explain it differently.

I'm starting to feel bad for your really brain washed mind. All the crap you learned in Sabbath School or whatever you call ir

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Nov 14 2004, 01:25 AM
You're making yourself look like an enormous fool here...

I actually feel a bit sorry for you so I'll leave.

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Why the insults hun? I think the same thing of you every time you post those pathetic low quality pictures of yourself in the "Pictures of us" thread after playing dress up...but I dont say anything

Your opinion of me has nothing to do with my intelligence. If it did you could simply retort BUT instead you TRY to insult me. You're opinion is purely based on the fact that I am an arab and I am a Palestinian sympathizer.

I'm not even going to dignify your reasoning for the treatment of Palestinians by the jews because you are jewish and have clearly been told that the jews are right. I just wonder why the Palestinian sympathizer jews see my point of view. hmmmm think long and hard about it

 

[Vintage Mischa]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Nov 14 2004, 02:25 AM
Do you know your history at all? Seriously, I'm so tired of this, and of you.
You're making yourself look like an enormous fool here...

I actually feel a bit sorry for you

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[CelineChic]

Facts are facts

In 1948, there were approximately 860,000 Palestinians inside today's
Israel. About 700,000 were driven out or fled during the fighting that followed
the declaration of Israeli statehood. The Palestinian population of Jerusalem
went from 75,000 to 3,500; of Jaffa from 70,000 to 3,600; of Haifa from 71,000
to 2,900; of Lydda-Ramle from 35,000 to 2,000; of Tiberias from 5,300 to zero.
All refugees lost their property (about 800,000 acres were taken for Israeli
use.). The 160,000 Palestinians still in Israel in 1949 when the fighting
stopped lost another 250,000 acres. The Palestinians in Israel were left without
resources or strong leaders.

The lure of Zionism blinded many to the fact that Palestine was already inhabited. By 1897, that 10,000 square mile area had been under Turkish rule for nearly four centuries and contained 600,000 people, 95% Arab (predominantly Muslim) and 5% Jews. By 1918, after the first two waves of Jewish immigration, the percentage of Jews rose to approximately 10%. Ownership of about half the land was in private Arab hands, 2.6% was privately owned by Jews, and while the remainder was State property under the Ottoman law, much of it had been farmed by generations of Arab villagers.

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by Vintage Mischa@Nov 14 2004, 01:47 AM

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Coming from the person who cant even state one proper arguement or fact?

Now that is funny

 

[purplelucrezia]

Alright, Celine Chic, since I'm feeling kindly.

Once upon a time there was a nation who lived in a far-away land...

These people, now called the Jews, moved many, many times over the centuries. Sometimes they lived in Egypt where they were held as slaves, and essentially built the pyramids. Later, after many events and different leaders, they moved into a land called Canaan.

This land was known as the promised land, because according to what is known as the Old Testament, it was promised by G-d to Abraham. Abraham, since you seem a trifle ignorant generally, was another leader of several major religions you might have heard of.
Well, this little group of people moved into this land after many struggles. You must remember that they have always been a small group, but a strong one. Hard to cut out, you might say. Anyhow... over the ages, as you pointed out this nation was forced to move out of the land that they believed in.

Most of this displaced people ended up in Europe, where they mainly starved and lived in ghettos and tiny villages. They were always wandering though, which is why they were known as the wandering Jews. These people did not very much like being kicked out of the places they were living in, but for some reason, people did not seem to like them very much.

They got kicked of many, many places, and during the time of Christopher Columbus, they were all nicely removed from Spain. In fact, over the centuries, some people began to think of even better ideas of getting rid of this group that wouldn't seem to leave.

Finally, a very good very job was done of nearly getting rid of them. Some groups started to wonder whether maybe, this wasn't the best idea. There really weren't many of this nation left now, but the people that were still there needed a place to live. Somehow most of them didn't feel like going back "home" to their pilfered houses and neighbours that let their families die. A few did stay in Europe though, and left that poor old country from long ago well enough alone.
Other people though weren't quite so keen on that idea. They needed to go another place, that was new to them and where they might be accepted and no longer killed. They got on a big, big boat and they took off looking for a place to live.

Most of the areas that they went didn't like them very much. The place that I'm living in today (see how wonderfully far I've been kept from you), didn't want them either. They kept on moving from place to place, wandering once again. Finally some people got together and decided that it would make sense for this group to be moved into what is now Israel.
This people were very happy to move into a home and so they did.

 

[kragirl]

Originally posted by CelineChic@Nov 14 2004, 01:54 AM
Dynamite is not MILITARY EQUIPMENT. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. The Palestinians have no tanks to shoot and protect themselves. Military equipment offers the Israelis some protection when killing others.

The dynamite (which ISN"T military equipment) that the Palestinians use are drastic measures but its the only f*cking measure they have. What the hell else do you expect them to use. UNFORTUNATLEY they don’t have the US giving them military equipment!!!

AND sadly it is quite easy to make bombs. Just think, the uni-bomer made some ferocious bombs with gun powder and a pipe. Even some school children have been able to make pipe bombs. Car bombs are the easiest because the car's fuel is what causes the boom.

I myself could probably make a bomb. It's quite easy to blow things up. ALthough I wouldn't.

I wish some people could read 

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Alright you're acting like a real "it", and consider that a compliment compared to what I you're really acting like and what I could call you and by the looks of it, I'm doubting that quote about how you wouldn't blow up sh*t, hell, you're blowing up you're mouth by putting your foot in it.

Besides, what's the f*cking difference if it's dynamite and military equipment, they were used to kill innocent people

 

[CelineChic]

Here is some more history Purplewhatever your name is....

even before the Arab invasion in the spring of 1948, and continuing well after Israel won the war, some 600,000-700,000 Palestinians were deliberately driven Out of their country, their homes, and their villages, in what prominent Israeli and American Jewish historians (e.g., Meron Benvenisti and Ian Lustick) are beginning to acknowledge was nothing less than "ethnic cleansing." Emotionally loaded as that term is, it accurately describes the Israeli psychological warfare, economic pressures, artillery bombardments, political assassinations, terrorist attacks, and even massacres that forced the Palestinians to flee.

To be sure, the Israelis had their reasons. Beginning with the Jewish influx into Palestine after 1917, Zionist leaders realized that it would be hard to build a secure Jewish state with a large, resentful Arab minority--which one day, because of the higher Arab birth rate, might even become a majority. Therefore, they began discussing various ways in which the Palestinians could be "transferred" (the preferred Zionist euphemism) out of the country--including, if necessary, by force.

To the general demographic and security problem was added the desire to find space, homes, and productive land for the post-Holocaust Jewish immigrants. These were indeed serious problems. Even so, it does not follow that the utterly ruthless methods by which the transfer mentality was implemented in the Palestinian expulsion in 1947-1949 were justified.

 

[CelineChic]

Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Nov 14 2004, 02:11 AM
Alright, Celine Chic, since I'm feeling kindly.

Once upon a time there was a nation who lived in a far-away land...
*snip the filler*

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Oh I SEE! You rationalize the stealing of land from the Palestinians all because no one likes Jews and because they suffered through the Holocaust? How long will they be milking that for?

 

[purplelucrezia]

Originally posted by CelineChic@Nov 14 2004, 01:43 AM
Why the insults hun? I think the same thing of you every time you post those pathetic low quality pictures of yourself in the "Pictures of us" thread after playing dress up...but I dont say anything

Well, since not everyone seemed to deteste them quite so much, you're now free of me!

Your opinion of me has nothing to do with my intelligence. If it did you could simply retort BUT instead you TRY to insult me. You're opinion is purely based on the fact that I am an arab and I am a Palestinian sympathizer.

I admire people who are intelligent, can express themselves properly, and actually do their research. There are stupid Jews and there are stupid non- Jews. I dislike you because you are rude, ignorant and uneducated. I would feel the same way if you were Jewish. Perhaps more in fact, because you would be an insult to my people...

I'm not even going to dignify your reasoning for the treatment of Palestinians by the jews because you are jewish and have clearly been told that the jews are right. I just wonder why the Palestinian sympathizer jews see my point of view. hmmmm think long and hard about it

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I have been told that the Jews are right, and I have also been told that the Palestinians are as well. However, I choose to actually come to my own conclusions.