Carol Christian Poell - Designer
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runner
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off topic, but there was this man called tatsuhiko shibusawa ( tatsuo shibusawa 1928 - 1987, a scholar of french literature, an essayist, a novelist ) who I think would have been interested to see the work of carol christian poell.
sorry for my translation though, here is an excerpt from shibusawa's kosumogurafia fantasutika
sayonarako
-for instance, a mechanical doll, a clock with a complicated device, a fountain, a set piece of fireworks, a musical box, a jack-in-the-box, a moving panorama ...... about all these kinds of elaborate articles like a cross between unpractical machine and toy, somehow, there is something that seduces us into deceptive pleasure of wonder akin to obscure betrayal against our production society that is supposed to be conducted sanely.
it is not as orthodox as an artistic impression, clearly it's something different from that in kind. if anything, it might be better described as belonging with guilty pleasure. also it's something the viewers cannot take as easy as they can take toys. it's such pleasure as requires that they should, say, equip their mind for being caught unawares, being amazed, and being frightened.
-it is generally said that an artist is "an ape who imitates god". if so, what ever should we name a person like this who makes the most ingenious products that are unhelpful, uncanny, and yet impossible without a high degree of technical skill?
sorry for my translation though, here is an excerpt from shibusawa's kosumogurafia fantasutika
sayonarako
-for instance, a mechanical doll, a clock with a complicated device, a fountain, a set piece of fireworks, a musical box, a jack-in-the-box, a moving panorama ...... about all these kinds of elaborate articles like a cross between unpractical machine and toy, somehow, there is something that seduces us into deceptive pleasure of wonder akin to obscure betrayal against our production society that is supposed to be conducted sanely.
it is not as orthodox as an artistic impression, clearly it's something different from that in kind. if anything, it might be better described as belonging with guilty pleasure. also it's something the viewers cannot take as easy as they can take toys. it's such pleasure as requires that they should, say, equip their mind for being caught unawares, being amazed, and being frightened.
-it is generally said that an artist is "an ape who imitates god". if so, what ever should we name a person like this who makes the most ingenious products that are unhelpful, uncanny, and yet impossible without a high degree of technical skill?
runner
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dolls by simon yotsuya
sometimes simon reminds me of schiele in some way. so simon is associated with carol in my mind. and it seems that simon and carol do have something in common, or as if the products the two make are under kindred curses.
simon-doll.jp
sometimes simon reminds me of schiele in some way. so simon is associated with carol in my mind. and it seems that simon and carol do have something in common, or as if the products the two make are under kindred curses.
simon-doll.jp
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softgrey
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very interesting...
i suppose the idea is that the more stitches>>> the sturdier the garment...
the better the quality...the longer it will last...etc...
i think i knew this somewhere in the back of my mind from my grandmother being a seamstress and just from learning how to sew in school when i was 12 yrs old or so...
but i had forgotten all about it until now...
though it makes perfect sense...and seems so obvious now that you mention it...
*i wonder what else i have forgotten...
...
...
...
softgrey
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kindred curses is a beautiful and poetic way to put it...
these dolls are exquisite and insane at the same time...
much like some of CCP's work...
i completely see the correlation...
it's a good question...
i don't have the answer...
but i am glad that these people exist and that they do what they do...
maybe we can simply call them amazing...
never heard of these before...
thanks runner for the amazing images and the info...
edit to add-
i just had a look at some more images on that site with the dolls
some of them definitely scared me...
...
......
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runner
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you're welcome softgrey, and yes some are scary.
another reason these people are amazing is that they also make the products that are really beautiful.
simon makes a white ( pale blue strictly ) angel statue that is just stunning.
someone I respect said years ago that the most beautiful coat he had ever seen was a classic one by carol in icy white.
like the true avant-garde can become the best classic dresser as well at will,
maybe those people are able to make it reversed, or make it oscillate between the opposites.
the farther away the polar points go, the more power it takes on.
and however long a way one point may be from the other, they are linked at the root. so I feel they have the faintest sign of each other.
another reason these people are amazing is that they also make the products that are really beautiful.
simon makes a white ( pale blue strictly ) angel statue that is just stunning.
someone I respect said years ago that the most beautiful coat he had ever seen was a classic one by carol in icy white.
like the true avant-garde can become the best classic dresser as well at will,
maybe those people are able to make it reversed, or make it oscillate between the opposites.
the farther away the polar points go, the more power it takes on.
and however long a way one point may be from the other, they are linked at the root. so I feel they have the faintest sign of each other.
B)
thanks for the post. i recently stumbled upon marina bychkova's work, not quite in the same league as Simon's dolls, but the essence, under kindred curse reminds me of.
sometimes it makes me think that, as if poell is making a parody out of fashion, that is so extreme he pushes the boundary of the technical of making clothes.
if he is for real or just being funny.
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runner
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yes he seems to like it funny sometimes, or childlike, or whatever. he used to wear his jeans with a little frontal hole at the left crotch in the 90's. I don't know why he and even sergio make an athletic footwear choice for themselves, but I think they know it can look a bit funny. and we may see those reflected here and there in his work. until the beginning of 2004, his website had been all about a grainy monochrome image of something like a lipstick. it was really a stretch leather condom from S/S 00.
it's true that he is serious about his work, trying to break out of the egg, that is, the conventional world of fashion. but, since he is certainly part of the world, and he himself is always no exception, it's not good for him to be too fortified. he should dislike being too solidified / established, as long as he doesn't want to be hedged in with his own eggshell, for which the funny ( or grotesque, remotely ) element might work nicely. it could function in the same way as the incision mentioned a few pages back as against the suturing.
being serious - being funny: "solidification - resolution, integration - disintegration, form - deformation, character - personality, logos - secret, dignity - freedom, order - rebellion"
disparate things one thing embraces / the oneness of different things or opposites. this has been characteristic of his collections, u-turn, b-sides, paranoid, disjointed, off scene, selfsame... it's a kind of syncretism, and it's a big sign of Mannerism ( another sign being what gustav rene hocke would call seemingly "anti-klimax", it's what fenrost calls about selfedge stuff "encrypted" ). I would say, in a comprehensive sense, carol christian poell = Mannerist in fashion.
out of the egg, the bird might tend to "fly to the god named abraxas".
my scan
it's true that he is serious about his work, trying to break out of the egg, that is, the conventional world of fashion. but, since he is certainly part of the world, and he himself is always no exception, it's not good for him to be too fortified. he should dislike being too solidified / established, as long as he doesn't want to be hedged in with his own eggshell, for which the funny ( or grotesque, remotely ) element might work nicely. it could function in the same way as the incision mentioned a few pages back as against the suturing.
being serious - being funny: "solidification - resolution, integration - disintegration, form - deformation, character - personality, logos - secret, dignity - freedom, order - rebellion"
disparate things one thing embraces / the oneness of different things or opposites. this has been characteristic of his collections, u-turn, b-sides, paranoid, disjointed, off scene, selfsame... it's a kind of syncretism, and it's a big sign of Mannerism ( another sign being what gustav rene hocke would call seemingly "anti-klimax", it's what fenrost calls about selfedge stuff "encrypted" ). I would say, in a comprehensive sense, carol christian poell = Mannerist in fashion.
out of the egg, the bird might tend to "fly to the god named abraxas".
my scan
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thanks for your insight!
leather condom... seems to be a extreme SM haha
i agree and able to relate, the sense of anti-establishment and breaking free from that egg-shell.
to continue my initial post, i guess there's always this ubiquitous quality.. and an incredulous phase when handling his work - it's remain "sub" to homogeneity.
here's some more selfsame literal humour - i kind of had a laugh with the sale assistant in stores when i ask them what went wrong? loved them irregardless.
asymmetrical split pants, the tag are glued asymmetrically :
rubber dipped boots, bottom zips are rubber dipped as well, so it's malfunction :
leather condom... seems to be a extreme SM haha
i agree and able to relate, the sense of anti-establishment and breaking free from that egg-shell.
to continue my initial post, i guess there's always this ubiquitous quality.. and an incredulous phase when handling his work - it's remain "sub" to homogeneity.
here's some more selfsame literal humour - i kind of had a laugh with the sale assistant in stores when i ask them what went wrong? loved them irregardless.
asymmetrical split pants, the tag are glued asymmetrically :
rubber dipped boots, bottom zips are rubber dipped as well, so it's malfunction :
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an excerpt from an old article:
src : http://ccp.adm.at/publications/index_html/img/muganno.pdf
FABRIC IS THE MESSAGE - CAROL CHRISTIAN POELL , mug nr.2 - 2002
"...What the creator actually brings about is a decontextualization of old false conventions, so much so that his gauze-clad carcasses are but an attempt to emphasize the agony of death. Poell's clothing and accessories have a precise aesthetic function and often point to daily changes that we pretend not to see although they affect our lives."
Your Day...
100% planning things.
Which way do you like going?
The hardest way.
Instant dreaming is...
Not to have time limits.
Design, form and function, what else?
Sewing.
Life, background noise, nature: what do you use to create?
My instinct.
"...What the creator actually brings about is a decontextualization of old false conventions, so much so that his gauze-clad carcasses are but an attempt to emphasize the agony of death. Poell's clothing and accessories have a precise aesthetic function and often point to daily changes that we pretend not to see although they affect our lives."
Your Day...
100% planning things.
Which way do you like going?
The hardest way.
Instant dreaming is...
Not to have time limits.
Design, form and function, what else?
Sewing.
Life, background noise, nature: what do you use to create?
My instinct.
src : http://ccp.adm.at/publications/index_html/img/muganno.pdf
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runner
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I had hesitated further discussion about the dip-rubbered zipper in the pic fenrost posted in #51 since we have a thread for ccp 09 collection. but thought the topic is general enough and could link 09 to 2010 collection ( which is due in stores in the spring of 2011 ).
it's a sort of potential - actual play.
dormant - active, underlying - exposed.....this is what you see in the object piece representative of 09 at the bottom of this post ( the pic numbered as 0 ).
part of it being above the rubbery block, it is invisible under-rubber. but there are definitely indications that something is below, rippling the surface of the rubber, although you cannot see it directly, like the veins showing beneath the skin ( the veined and capillaried shirts 1, 2, 3, 4 ).
and back to the dip-rubbered lower part of the boots in #51, the zipper and sole are coated with rubber, but you can sense what are under the rubber. they will be more apparent gradually with wear. they are implications of potentiality developing into actuality. phase-change, dynamic balance of two disparate states.
the part visible part invisible play continues and it is in the scary zipper details for the upcoming collection.
it's a zipper without its top stop: it is part buried into leather. it runs only to fade away before it reaches its terminal, that is, fuse into the leather garment ( every style cannot have this detail though). in some way it's like an exposed fossil spine whose part is invisible, being buried and fused into the rock ( 5 ). and again on the surface of leather there may be faint indications of what is buried.
in order to make this idea executed as perfectly as possible, they didn't use two strips of fabric zipper tape. the metal teeth are aligned on the leather edges.
the sign of something underneath ( such as 6 ) as a design can be also seen in "arthrosic" series. it's protective padding with the titanium shell implanted in the elbow, knee, ankle, knuckle, minor knuckle (proximal interphalangeal joint) of those items. the way leather/fabrics show the presence of the titanium shell under the surface is similar to the way our skin shows the presence of our own corresponding joints that are inside. ( titanium is known for orthopaedic use, as the material for artificial bone, joint, etc. in fact, fingers gloves and long gloves especially are almost a cross between clothing and prosthesis )
the "arthrosic" items come in three variations. for example,
"arthrosic elbow jacket", just above mentioned, you cannot see the titanium elbow shell directly.
"prosthesis spine elbow jacket" has a slash in the elbow on each sleeve so that the shell's spine peeps out from it.
"prosthesis elbow jacket" has a wider opening or hole, so most of the upper part of the shell is exposed.
it overlaps the concept/image which the shoes object ( 0 ) stands for,
the development of things,
hidden - revealed.....as he through intense expression reminds us where leather that is the material of those pieces comes from.
1
2
3
4
5
6
shelter
ameblo
travel.webshots
0
courtesy m
*please don't post this attachment image outside this thread. thank you
it's a sort of potential - actual play.
dormant - active, underlying - exposed.....this is what you see in the object piece representative of 09 at the bottom of this post ( the pic numbered as 0 ).
part of it being above the rubbery block, it is invisible under-rubber. but there are definitely indications that something is below, rippling the surface of the rubber, although you cannot see it directly, like the veins showing beneath the skin ( the veined and capillaried shirts 1, 2, 3, 4 ).
and back to the dip-rubbered lower part of the boots in #51, the zipper and sole are coated with rubber, but you can sense what are under the rubber. they will be more apparent gradually with wear. they are implications of potentiality developing into actuality. phase-change, dynamic balance of two disparate states.
the part visible part invisible play continues and it is in the scary zipper details for the upcoming collection.
it's a zipper without its top stop: it is part buried into leather. it runs only to fade away before it reaches its terminal, that is, fuse into the leather garment ( every style cannot have this detail though). in some way it's like an exposed fossil spine whose part is invisible, being buried and fused into the rock ( 5 ). and again on the surface of leather there may be faint indications of what is buried.
in order to make this idea executed as perfectly as possible, they didn't use two strips of fabric zipper tape. the metal teeth are aligned on the leather edges.
the sign of something underneath ( such as 6 ) as a design can be also seen in "arthrosic" series. it's protective padding with the titanium shell implanted in the elbow, knee, ankle, knuckle, minor knuckle (proximal interphalangeal joint) of those items. the way leather/fabrics show the presence of the titanium shell under the surface is similar to the way our skin shows the presence of our own corresponding joints that are inside. ( titanium is known for orthopaedic use, as the material for artificial bone, joint, etc. in fact, fingers gloves and long gloves especially are almost a cross between clothing and prosthesis )
the "arthrosic" items come in three variations. for example,
"arthrosic elbow jacket", just above mentioned, you cannot see the titanium elbow shell directly.
"prosthesis spine elbow jacket" has a slash in the elbow on each sleeve so that the shell's spine peeps out from it.
"prosthesis elbow jacket" has a wider opening or hole, so most of the upper part of the shell is exposed.
it overlaps the concept/image which the shoes object ( 0 ) stands for,
the development of things,
hidden - revealed.....as he through intense expression reminds us where leather that is the material of those pieces comes from.
1
2
3
4
5
6
shelter
ameblo
travel.webshots
0
courtesy m
*please don't post this attachment image outside this thread. thank you
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thanks for the post. again its great pleasure to read.
(my observation) the boots and derbies in 2010, the metal splints at the sole are semi "buried" in the leather, as oppose in 09, the splint are completely on the surface of the sole, not sure if it's relevant that can be added to your point of the disparate state - but anyway, it's certainly more carpet SAFE
(my observation) the boots and derbies in 2010, the metal splints at the sole are semi "buried" in the leather, as oppose in 09, the splint are completely on the surface of the sole, not sure if it's relevant that can be added to your point of the disparate state - but anyway, it's certainly more carpet SAFE
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also, apologies for the broken images at #51, i moved my files in my hosting, will re-linked sometime soon.
once again, as i re-read again. truly thanks for this. i just have to refresh and realize the scarry zips semi buried into the garments.
would you say the same (something underneath the surface) for his unlined suits (which seems there's alot more thinner/sheerer offerings in 2010) ?
an example from the 09 :
pics from darklands
some of the sampled pieces in 2010, the shapes of tape along the seams, from the exterior are really really extreme, of course with the right fabric.
once again, as i re-read again. truly thanks for this. i just have to refresh and realize the scarry zips semi buried into the garments.
would you say the same (something underneath the surface) for his unlined suits (which seems there's alot more thinner/sheerer offerings in 2010) ?
an example from the 09 :
pics from darklands
some of the sampled pieces in 2010, the shapes of tape along the seams, from the exterior are really really extreme, of course with the right fabric.
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runner
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thank you fenrost for trying to relink, but if you find it impossible, you can PM moderators ( softgrey, tangerine, etc ). they can insert the pics in the original post for you.
sorry for the zipper description from which it should be hard to imagine what it's like.
have you watched akira ? if so, you might picture it better from what's happening in this scene.
just a link because it's rather big.
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/672/20090220akiraweb09.jpg
weekly.ascii.jp
now I'm sure you have checked "dead end" stuff, it's one of the main concepts for 2010 and therefore is to be discussed in a new thread. but the zipper idea may be clear, if it is described as a zipper version of "dead end" seam.
the concept "dip-rubbered" can be about potentiality → actuality play.
but, as I said ccp is about oscillation between opposites, the direction is "reversible".
and when in turn it's potentiality ← actuality, it is just called "dead end". the zipper line runs and on its way dives into the surface of leather. the line, which would normally or potentially run through from bottom end to top end along the front full opening of a jacket, stops at that entry point, two-dimentionally speaking, thus "dead end". ( though this is an imperfect explanation of "dead end" for the moment )
then, especially because the metal teeth are aligned on the leather edges, it looks to me like a zipper seam or metal chain-seam or zipper teeth version of the overlock. it really is a kind of "dead end" seam closed by the metal teeth.
yes I'd say the same. I think I wrote about the backbone effect of the tape in the previous ccp general thread.
also, with the glued seams, the industrial color of the glue showing beneath the fabric contours the pattern pieces that are put together with invisible ( clear nylon ) thread.
sorry for the zipper description from which it should be hard to imagine what it's like.
have you watched akira ? if so, you might picture it better from what's happening in this scene.
just a link because it's rather big.
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/672/20090220akiraweb09.jpg
weekly.ascii.jp
now I'm sure you have checked "dead end" stuff, it's one of the main concepts for 2010 and therefore is to be discussed in a new thread. but the zipper idea may be clear, if it is described as a zipper version of "dead end" seam.
the concept "dip-rubbered" can be about potentiality → actuality play.
but, as I said ccp is about oscillation between opposites, the direction is "reversible".
and when in turn it's potentiality ← actuality, it is just called "dead end". the zipper line runs and on its way dives into the surface of leather. the line, which would normally or potentially run through from bottom end to top end along the front full opening of a jacket, stops at that entry point, two-dimentionally speaking, thus "dead end". ( though this is an imperfect explanation of "dead end" for the moment )
then, especially because the metal teeth are aligned on the leather edges, it looks to me like a zipper seam or metal chain-seam or zipper teeth version of the overlock. it really is a kind of "dead end" seam closed by the metal teeth.
yes I'd say the same. I think I wrote about the backbone effect of the tape in the previous ccp general thread.
also, with the glued seams, the industrial color of the glue showing beneath the fabric contours the pattern pieces that are put together with invisible ( clear nylon ) thread.
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runner, thanks again for another great post, certainly filled alot of missing connections and question to my callow experience on his work, 
actuality-potentiality, thats a great aristotle's proposition referenced on carol's work, cause - effect, and vice versa, dead end.
yeah, i handled some of the dead end garments, at this point in my mind somewhere i see/feel there's a correlation to his selvedge technique (both 09 and 10), due to the extremity of pattern work and boldness in fabric consumption (waste). the dead end seams are truly a haunting design, seams diverge and did not connect, then shows a continuous flow of "one piece" of fabric/leather... like a stream of river. anyway but i will leave that thought in a more relevant thread.
i will lookforward to the 2010 thread, and certainly the fe-male collection as well (which i find it more exciting) which optimistically, showing in SS11.
actuality-potentiality, thats a great aristotle's proposition referenced on carol's work, cause - effect, and vice versa, dead end.
yeah, i handled some of the dead end garments, at this point in my mind somewhere i see/feel there's a correlation to his selvedge technique (both 09 and 10), due to the extremity of pattern work and boldness in fabric consumption (waste). the dead end seams are truly a haunting design, seams diverge and did not connect, then shows a continuous flow of "one piece" of fabric/leather... like a stream of river. anyway but i will leave that thought in a more relevant thread.
i will lookforward to the 2010 thread, and certainly the fe-male collection as well (which i find it more exciting) which optimistically, showing in SS11.
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